suen Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi, I have a 14 week old male labrador and have had him for 5 weeks. He will not stay outside by himself or sleep in his kennel. He is fine when I'm out there with him and will amuse himself and play happily with his toys etc. but as soon as I go inside he cries at the door, if I leave him he cries until he shakes and appears terrified. I talk to him through the door and don't let him in until the crying stops, when he finally sits quietly I usually go outside with him for a while before I let him come inside. I have tried lots of things like throwing handfuls of kibble around the yard, a marrowbone, a kong - all of which he thinks are great fun - as long as I'm watching him. When he falls asleep and I sneak away he seems to know within 2 minutes that I've left him. Indoors he's fine and I can leave him either alone or with another family member with no worries, he doesn't mind this at all. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 When you have left him to cry how long have you left him for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I have gradually got up to about 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Suen- Welcome to DOL. A few questions to start with: Is this your first puppy? Is your puppy allowed inside the house? Does your puppy go to puppy preschool? Have you done any basic training with your puppy? Do you know about crate training? What interaction does your puppy have with others? Is he/she alone for long during the day? What routines do you have? What info did you get when you bought your puppy? (and do you have any support from the people that sold you your puppy?) Oh, and pics are a must! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Does that mean 20 minutes without crying? Or 20 minutes is the point that he starts to shake etc? Lappiemum asks good questions as well and the answers will be helpful in determining what may assist you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Lappiemum, no he's not my first puppy, yes he's allowed in the house. He has been to puppy pre-school, just graduated last week. He has been very easy to train to sit, shake, drop etc. I don't know anything about crate training. We are a family of 3 adults, we sometimes have visitors which causes much excitement! Puppy pre-school is really the only place he has had socialisation with other dogs as he has not finished his injections yet so we are not out walking at this stage. He is alone for about 6 hours during the day - Mon-Fri - when I work, but I've been on holidays as well. I have also taken him to work with me for the day on a couple of occasions. The main routine we follow is that breakfast is around 7 am, dinner around 6 pm and meals are eaten outside. I got general info from the people I bought him from, such as diet and health - that's about all. I will try adding a photo, but I'm on the computer at work presently - will have to add one when I get home. Thanks for your interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 The 20 minutes is as much as I can bear or I would be crying too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 So- you talk to him while he's crying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You need to look up extinction training. Unfortunately this will now be a much more difficult process because you have accidentally provided attention for the very thing you would like your little pup to stop. Crate training may be a good in betwen step- meaning you can get the pup used to being separated by a physical barrier while inside with you and then transfer this training to outside. You are going to need to go through some crying and NOT give in- even when the behaviour escalates which it almost certainly will the first few times you do it. Its vital you do this now so that your puppy develops into a well adjusted adult with a degree of independence. I am really quite surprised that your puppy school trainer didn't go through what to do- did you mention the problem to him/ her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 You need to look up extinction training. Unfortunately this will now be a much more difficult process because you have accidentally provided attention for the very thing you would like your little pup to stop. Crate training may be a good in betwen step- meaning you can get the pup used to being separated by a physical barrier while inside with you and then transfer this training to outside. You are going to need to go through some crying and NOT give in- even when the behaviour escalates which it almost certainly will the first few times you do it. Its vital you do this now so that your puppy develops into a well adjusted adult with a degree of independence. I am really quite surprised that your puppy school trainer didn't go through what to do- did you mention the problem to him/ her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 You need to look up extinction training. Unfortunately this will now be a much more difficult process because you have accidentally provided attention for the very thing you would like your little pup to stop. Crate training may be a good in betwen step- meaning you can get the pup used to being separated by a physical barrier while inside with you and then transfer this training to outside. You are going to need to go through some crying and NOT give in- even when the behaviour escalates which it almost certainly will the first few times you do it. Its vital you do this now so that your puppy develops into a well adjusted adult with a degree of independence. I am really quite surprised that your puppy school trainer didn't go through what to do- did you mention the problem to him/ her? I did mention this to the trainer and we spoke about separation anxiety (which I don't think is the problem), I even bought a book which gave me some good advice which I have put into practice. We have no problem inside the house, I can be in a different room with the door closed and it doesn't bother him. He just waits patiently for me to come out. How long would be too long to let him cry and shake? I also have neighbours to consider although they have not complained so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 So- you talk to him while he's crying? Yes, I guess though that this is the wrong thing to do. I just say "no crying" and wait for him to stop before opening the door. But I don't let him in at that point, I go outside too, then we come in together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 So- you talk to him while he's crying? Yes, I guess though that this is the wrong thing to do. I just say "no crying" and wait for him to stop before opening the door. But I don't let him in at that point, I go outside too, then we come in together. When you ignore something, you have to ignore it fully. What we think might be instructional (e.g "no crying") is just attention for the pup. I have a protocol which is quite useful for problems like this, it enables you to work at the dog's level by not going very far at first. You can find it towards the end of this article: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1556 I recommend that you use it exactly as written, the only difference being that you will go outside, then come back inside and shut the door for each trial (leaving pup outside the whole time you do this exercise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi Suen, your puppy is adorable!!! I have had a similar problem in the past with my pup which is now resolved, so can offer you this advice: When you put the pup outside, or wherever away from you and he cries, you must ignore him until he is quiet AND calm. The calm part is important - my pup used to trick me by being quiet for 30sec, then as I was about to get up to let her in she would start crying again! Make sure he has well and truly calmed down before you return. By ignore I mean do not say a word to him, do not even make eye contact (it's better if he can't see you through a window etc - close the blinds if you have to). He likely does not understand what "no crying" means - by talking to him from his point of view you are simply giving him attention. Unfortunately, because your pup has gotten attention from crying in the past, he is now likely to cry even longer and harder when you first try the above. I have been there! However, you must persist, otherwise you will only teach him that crying gets attention in the end, and will only make the problem worse. When you leave him it helps if you can give him something to distract his attention from the fact that you are leaving him - a kong filled with peanut butter, for example. When you come back, do not make a big fuss, continue to ignore him for the first few minutes that you are back in his sight, before calmly saying hello. This way your coming and going is not such a big deal. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thank you all for your advice and links to other helpful information. I will look into all the suggestions and I now realise that I am the problem, and that I need the training. I hope to report back soon that we have resolved the problem. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuggaWuggles Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 As i have been told about my Pug and his carrying on and crying , "He is training YOU".Which is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan of Arc Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Suen, Lab puppies are highly intelligent and I agree with the others, he is training you. Macka has given you some good advice - keep your pup occupied when he is outside, toys, kongs, a bone etc. You MUST make going outside as attractive as being inside. If you would like him to be inside and would like to know more about crate training there are ample threads on DOL about this topice. I would also encourage you to visit the Labrador thread in the Breeds forums where you can talk to several people who have Lab pups the same age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suen Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'm pleased to report that we are getting there, slowly but surely. I have taken the advice I received from those who replied and I am ignoring the crying. Caesar has got the message that crying doesn't bring be running any more and he sits at the door quietly for over half an hour, looking very sad I must say. I worry that he doesn't just go off and play. He has toys and a soccer ball to play with in the yard, also a kennel to go into and a trampoline type bed but still he just sits at the door and waits. Does anyone have a suggestion for something "fantastic" for him to want to stay outside for? I have tried marrow bones, kong etc. as I mentioned previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hi Suen, So glad to hear things are going better. I don't know if other's have any suggestions but I found that my dog doesn't really play very much by herself if she knows I am home. She has a bunch of toys outside but only really plays with them if I am out there with her. However I do put her breakfast inside one of those treat dispensing balls or in a kong sometimes just before I leave for work and when I get home they are always empty - so she must play with them when I am not there. If she knows I am home though she won't play - she just waits at the door to be let in. I don't really mind though since mostly whenever I am home she is inside with me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan of Arc Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 That's pretty natural, after all you are the leader of his/her pack and they are waiting for you to come and play. Even at 6 yrs, our boy will sleep if I am busy inside but as soon as we go out the door they all have a toy to bring to me to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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