Vaccine Reaction Or Something Else

[Red Fox]

Glad to hear that Oberon is feeling better Pixie Meg

Also glad that you've been able to find a more experienced vet

I'll never forget bringing Kei in for his first check up. The vet didn't know what breed he was, didn't check for DS (or even ask about it) and pushed the heartworm vacc on me. I was put off to say the least! Then to top it off the same vet was on emergency call 2 months later when we rushed the cat in for a nasty abcess. She looked at his abcess which was just under his tail and told us he would need to be kept in over night and have surgery to drain it. She then asked me if I would like to have my cat desexed at the same time. Not an unreasonable request but my cat is ALREADY desexed! and considering he is short haired and she had just finished poking around in that area I was just gobsmacked!

Needless to say was now request a different vet!

[Diva]

He is rather perky today, even doing some zoomies without complaint. He still has some tenderness. I did some googling and got some borzoi pics and videos and Oberon is definitely not skinny and his gait is the same as the other puppies i saw on video.

I'll be contacting a vet down at dayboro to give Oberon a once over. the vet owns a pharaoh hound so sounds positive that she'll have more experience with sighthounds.

Sounds good, it's a shame he and you had to go through this. I wouldn't be suprised if the first vet was wrong on all counts and you've had a lot of angst for nothing.

She then asked me if I would like to have my cat desexed at the same time. Not an unreasonable request but my cat is ALREADY desexed! and considering he is short haired and she had just finished poking around in that area I was just gobsmacked!

Now that must be the definition of overservicing!

[Red Fox]

She then asked me if I would like to have my cat desexed at the same time. Not an unreasonable request but my cat is ALREADY desexed! and considering he is short haired and she had just finished poking around in that area I was just gobsmacked!

Now that must be the definition of overservicing!

Yeah, I wonder what would have happened if I'd said yes

[OSoSwift]

Glad he is feeling better and you are feeling better.

Hope all goes well.

[Chocolate]

With the elbow lump you are concerned about which feels soft like it is full of fluid, I think this is common in large breed pups that drop themselves to the floor banging the joints instead of placing themselves down carefully. The joint protects itself by putting out fluid which forms quite a sack of fluid over the joint area. Very common in elbows. I may be off the mark but I am surprised nobody else has mentioned this possibility and neither the vet. I can't remember the name it given just at the moment.

[OSoSwift]

It was mentioned in the other thread about his elbow lump and I think is called a hygroma? or something similar. I think the panic started when the vet believed he had elbow dysplacia and hip dysplasia - even though the puppy only had a hands on exam. I believe the lump is only on the one elbow as well.

[pixie_meg]

With the elbow lump you are concerned about which feels soft like it is full of fluid, I think this is common in large breed pups that drop themselves to the floor banging the joints instead of placing themselves down carefully. The joint protects itself by putting out fluid which forms quite a sack of fluid over the joint area. Very common in elbows. I may be off the mark but I am surprised nobody else has mentioned this possibility and neither the vet. I can't remember the name it given just at the moment.

I started another thread on Friday about the lump and everyone thought it was a hygroma, which is what i think you're thinking of. I really hope thats what it is. In the morning the lump is softer but it hardens through the day.

I'm still worried. cant help it.

I keep reminding myself whats the chance of an 11 week old borzoi having both elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia like the vet suspects.

eta, yep it was just the one elbow with a lump

Edited November 25, 2009 by pixie_meg

[Chocolate]

Sorry guys I must have missed the other thread. What I didn't realise is just how young these can start. He needs elbow pads:-)

[pegasus]

With the elbow lump you are concerned about which feels soft like it is full of fluid, I think this is common in large breed pups that drop themselves to the floor banging the joints instead of placing themselves down carefully. The joint protects itself by putting out fluid which forms quite a sack of fluid over the joint area. Very common in elbows. I may be off the mark but I am surprised nobody else has mentioned this possibility and neither the vet. I can't remember the name it given just at the moment.

I started another thread on Friday about the lump and everyone thought it was a hygroma, which is what i think you're thinking of. I really hope thats what it is. In the morning the lump is softer but it hardens through the day.

I'm still worried. cant help it.

I keep reminding myself whats the chance of an 11 week old borzoi having both elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia like the vet suspects.eta, yep it was just the one elbow with a lump

I've finally got time to come in and comment here and can I just say that any vet who gives a C5 to a young sighthound puppy who isn't even due for it's next needle, has already shown themselves to be an idiot. Then to not be able to recognise an elbow hygroma, instead insisting on 'severe' ED/HD is a complete and utter %&£%^*@!!!!

We have spoken to a number of fellow breeders, who between them have hundreds of years of experience and no one has EVER heard of ED or HD in our breed, anywhere in the world.

This is all very upsetting to my mother (and myself). She will be calling the AVA tomorrow, as the incompetance of that first vet is beyond belief and he has no right to upset you like that just because he cannot diagnose a SIMPLE hygroma.

Morgan & Chocolate were both correct in their posts as to the cause of Hygromas.

[morgan]

I started another thread on Friday about the lump and everyone thought it was a hygroma, which is what i think you're thinking of. I really hope thats what it is. In the morning the lump is softer but it hardens through the day.

It is softer in the morning because the pup is resting quietly during the night and the fluid starts to be reabsorbed. The moment he starts running around and dropping down the body pumps more fluid back in to protect the joint and it becomes hard again. He will have to be supervised to stop him lying on hard surfaces and made to lie down only on bedding or lawn (provided the ground isn't too hard).

Some greyhound vets that have plenty of expertise with hygromas have their own concoctions to inject into the hygroma to reduce the inflammation, but ordinary vets usually want to drain them, which simply doesn't work.

Of course incompetent morons of vets insist that they aren't hygromas at all and are actually advanced elbow dysplasia

[WreckitWhippet]

I think that vet must have attended the same vet school as the idiot who decided to vaccinate an older puppy that I'd rehomed. He'd been vaccinated at 9 weeks, then his second at 14 weeks and the idiot said " just to be sure " and vaccinated the day the new owner took him home, just two weeks after the last vacc Three weeks ago Sydney Uni sent that pup home to die, there's nothing more they can do for him.

[pixie_meg]

With the elbow lump you are concerned about which feels soft like it is full of fluid, I think this is common in large breed pups that drop themselves to the floor banging the joints instead of placing themselves down carefully. The joint protects itself by putting out fluid which forms quite a sack of fluid over the joint area. Very common in elbows. I may be off the mark but I am surprised nobody else has mentioned this possibility and neither the vet. I can't remember the name it given just at the moment.

I started another thread on Friday about the lump and everyone thought it was a hygroma, which is what i think you're thinking of. I really hope thats what it is. In the morning the lump is softer but it hardens through the day.

I'm still worried. cant help it.

I keep reminding myself whats the chance of an 11 week old borzoi having both elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia like the vet suspects.eta, yep it was just the one elbow with a lump

I've finally got time to come in and comment here and can I just say that any vet who gives a C5 to a young sighthound puppy who isn't even due for it's next needle, has already shown themselves to be an idiot. Then to not be able to recognise an elbow hygroma, instead insisting on 'severe' ED/HD is a complete and utter %&£%^*@!!!!

We have spoken to a number of fellow breeders, who between them have hundreds of years of experience and no one has EVER heard of ED or HD in our breed, anywhere in the world.

This is all very upsetting to my mother (and myself). She will be calling the AVA tomorrow, as the incompetance of that first vet is beyond belief and he has no right to upset you like that just because he cannot diagnose a SIMPLE hygroma.

Morgan & Chocolate were both correct in their posts as to the cause of Hygromas.

Its been a hard couple of days. I've felt like such a bad mum. I don't vaccinate my own kids and for once in my life i decide that i should trust a 'professional'. Is it too much to ask for, obviously it is. I did bring up hygroma with the vet too just to be dismissed. The vet was recommended too. lesson learned for a lifetime.

I'm insisting he sits on soft surfaces but thats hard in a fully tiled home. Thankfully we have a lot of matresses and theres always the couch.

oh and you guys will be happy to know he is acting quite normal again. Sad thing is my BILs weimaraner had a reaction to c5 at his 2nd vax and then they continued to give him the 16 week and year one with exactly the same hypersensitivity reaction. only found this out yesterday.

[WreckitWhippet]

Pixie Meg, my sister Wei reacted to his second C5 vacc. I personally would have put him down after about his first 7 months of life but they loved him. He cost then over $40 000 in his lifetime, it was more but they stopped counting.

Don't feel bad, you've got an awesome breeder to help you out.

[morgan]

I think that vet must have attended the same vet school as the idiot who decided to vaccinate an older puppy that I'd rehomed. He'd been vaccinated at 9 weeks, then his second at 14 weeks and the idiot said " just to be sure " and vaccinated the day the new owner took him home, just two weeks after the last vacc Three weeks ago Sydney Uni sent that pup home to die, there's nothing more they can do for him.

What is it with the vet mentality of "while he's here we'll vaccinate him, doesn't matter if it's early" or "I know it's a month early, but he's going into boarding kennels today so we'll just do him now for extra protection". Are they that afraid that they'll miss out on a 'sale' or are they hoping for reactions so they can make even more money? That poor puppy, what a horrible way to die.

Pixie_meg, glad to hear he's up and at 'em again, you should consider asking for an exemption from C5s on medical grounds from the vet for puppy school etc and I would be making an adverse reaction report directly to the vaccine manufacturer as you just know that the vet won't! This is how the manufacturers fudge their figures, no-one ever reports the reactions! Did your BIL's vet report the reactions? Bet he didn't.

SBT - wei's and C5s just don't mix do they! I know of one who was done a month early because he was being boarded for a week starting the next day - the kennel operator was aghast and made them sign a release form or else take him home and miss their holiday. Dog developed full blown kennel cough within a week of getting home, then pneumonia, struggled at the vet's for a week before dying. Then the vet and the owner blamed the kennels. This dog had almost died at 16 weeks of age due to some immunity anomaly and they had spent a fortune saving him, then pumped him with C5s every year after that, despite reactions

[OSoSwift]

Glad to hear he is feeling better.

Don't feel like a bad mum you were trying to do the best by your boy.

It is great you have such a good breeder, a relationship to be cherished

[Purpley]

Just on the vaccination topic - my 3yr old SBT was vacc with C5, had a stroke and died the same day. So don't get me started on my thoughts on vaccinations.

[pixie_meg]

Just on the vaccination topic - my 3yr old SBT was vacc with C5, had a stroke and died the same day. So don't get me started on my thoughts on vaccinations.

sorry to hear of your loss. I'm so very glad that Oberon hadn't had a worse reaction than what he did.

[WreckitWhippet]

Just on the vaccination topic - my 3yr old SBT was vacc with C5, had a stroke and died the same day. So don't get me started on my thoughts on vaccinations.

My heart still aches for you, I know he meant the world to you.

[Lowenhart]

My sister lost a strong healthy adult Afghan after a C5 vacc.

It's definitely OFF my vacc protocol.

[Clyde]

I call my breeder first as they know the dogs, know the lines, know the full history and I can say

" have you ever had xyz ? "

It's amazing the insight they can give you into one of their own. Unless it's an emergency, it's always breeder first for me, then the vet.

I got caught up in this recently. On the phone to both the vet and the breeder not sure which way to lean. In the end the breeder was right. I didn't ever doubt her I just stood in the middle but I found it interesting that breeder knowledge prevailed over veterinary knowledge even for such a serious problem.