Gretel Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Speaking to someone this morning about a 5 month old large breed bitch pup who was desexed. The vet told them that while she was under they'd fix her hernia and do something so she wouldn't bloat. Fair enough fixing the hernia but the bloat bit? I'd not heard of this. Any opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Speaking to someone this morning about a 5 month old large breed bitch pup who was desexed. The vet told them that while she was under they'd fix her hernia and do something so she wouldn't bloat. Fair enough fixing the hernia but the bloat bit? I'd not heard of this. Any opinions? If it's the surgery I'm thinking of, it involves tacking the stomach to the abdominal wall with a few sutures. So it can still bloat, but if it bloats it won't torsion/twist on itself (the really dangerous bit of a GDV). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) I had it done on Orbit - its called a Gastropexy. There are a few different methods of tacking the stomach and we chose the 'belt loop' style. We discussed the surgery with a specialist surgeon who encouraged us to do it, mentioning the bloat rate in Danes is something around the 1 in 4 mark. As Staranais said, it doesn't prevent bloat, but it can pevent the torsion which is generally the ugly part. If a dog bloats, this is the common surgery to do, but the dog is usually pretty sick by this stage, so its a risky anaesthetic and surgery. So we decided to do it at desexing, when he was a young, healthy boy. It is done quite commonly over in the USA. I have some pics of another Dane we did if you want to see? They're a bit gory though!! Edited April 13, 2010 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 It was common in the US but many are no longer heading done this path. I would never do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~*Shell*~ Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 I was at a talk the other night about canine diet and this came up - apparently the surgery was very commonplace in the US a couple of years ago but it's losing popularity now because many dogs who get the torsion part of bloat have pulled the tackings out of stomach or abdominal wall as it's twisted and it hasn't prevented anything. He wasn't sure of the success rate when it was done properly, i don't think those kind of figures are available but he did say that he believed in some dogs it does prevent the stomach from twisting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted April 13, 2010 Author Share Posted April 13, 2010 Thanks for the replies. I'd not heard of it being done as a preventative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) Interesting to hear some are advising against it. It's still the number one thing done AFTER a dog has bloated, to prevent bloat a second time, so not sure why it would be any different to do it before it bloats the first time. I wonder if this means the same people who are advising against a prophylactic pexy are also advising against a pexy post bloating? I found Jeds survey pretty interesting - from memory most dogs that bloated went on to have the surgery and I didn't see any that bloated a second time post surgery? Edited April 13, 2010 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 After D bloated I heard it was common practice to do it in police/service dogs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 (edited) Was just doing some research and found this?? It has been reported that the reoccurrence of GDV drops to 4.3% after a dog receives a gastropexy (Mayhew and Brown, 2009). Additionally, there has never been a report of GDV in a dog that received a prophylactic gastropexy (Robbins, 2009). I wonder if the reports of dogs who have torn their tackings, were dogs bloating for the first time and tearing a surgery that was done during desexing, or whether they were dogs that were bloating a second time, after more recent surgery from a previous bloat? (if that makes sense :D ) When we talked about it with our specialist, he advised against the laparoscope method as he said in his experience it wasn't as strong and could fail. I think this method is used a lot more in the USA, though. Edited April 13, 2010 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 I know of an imported GSD (sire of one of my dogs) who bloated and I assume had a Gastropexy of some variety - however a couple of years later he 'reverse bloated' which I found out meant his stomach twisted the opposite way to however it was tacked, and he didn't make it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to Dogs Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 As someone who was there when their dog bloated (GDV) and had to race them to the vets and then from the vets to the after hours emergency clinic for overnight care I would not hesitate to have this done when my next pup/s are desexed or otherwise operated on for other reasons. If it even reduces the chances slightly then I'd be happy. GDV is a horrific way to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centitout Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 My vets are against prophylactic gastropexy UNLESS there is a strong family history.One has had to repair a few done by other vets when the dogs rebloated at a later stage and it was a real mess. i wont do it as a preventitive,and i have a breed prone to it,i lost my first one to it.I think alot has to do with what they are fed,and how,but that view could change as my guys get older and i keep track of any incidences.It generally occurs in older dogs,and the study i read found that leaner dogs surprisingly were more at risk than older ,"chunkier" types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shells Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 The Vet I used for puppy preschool mentioned it being done as an option for those with larger breeds whilst being desexed - kind of like an add on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 If it's the surgery I'm thinking of, it involves tacking the stomach to the abdominal wall with a few sutures. So it can still bloat, but if it bloats it won't torsion/twist on itself (the really dangerous bit of a GDV). When my avatar girl (Kal, RIP and bless her cotton socks) had open stomach surgery to remove a large bone that had lodged in the lower end of her oesophagus, there was a period of 12 months where she showed considerable discomfort. After dotting from Vet to Vet thinking something was still very wrong (and being treated as though I was some sort of hypochondriac by proxy) I finally found a Vet who was able to explain the likelihood of the discomfort - ie scar tissue (there's another word for it but can't recall it just now) occurring from the surgery site and attaching itself to other parts of the body. This eventually disappeared (as I was told by this Vet that they would) but until they did, Kal did appear to be in considerable discomfort. If the stomach is tacked to the abdominal wall by sutures, could not this cause the dog some discomfort with movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 (edited) If it's the surgery I'm thinking of, it involves tacking the stomach to the abdominal wall with a few sutures. So it can still bloat, but if it bloats it won't torsion/twist on itself (the really dangerous bit of a GDV). When my avatar girl (Kal, RIP and bless her cotton socks) had open stomach surgery to remove a large bone that had lodged in the lower end of her oesophagus, there was a period of 12 months where she showed considerable discomfort. After dotting from Vet to Vet thinking something was still very wrong (and being treated as though I was some sort of hypochondriac by proxy) I finally found a Vet who was able to explain the likelihood of the discomfort - ie scar tissue (there's another word for it but can't recall it just now) occurring from the surgery site and attaching itself to other parts of the body. This eventually disappeared (as I was told by this Vet that they would) but until they did, Kal did appear to be in considerable discomfort. If the stomach is tacked to the abdominal wall by sutures, could not this cause the dog some discomfort with movement? Adhesions? I don't know, Erny - but I would imagine it depends exactly what you tack together? I'm thinking that perhaps Kal could have had all sorts of things randomly stuck together by adhesions after her surgery, causing the discomfort, not just the stomach stuck to the abdominal wall at one point as in a gastropexy? I don't think the stomach would move around much anyway relative to the body wall, it's attached fairly firmly to the spleen & liver anyway. ETA - have just had a look in my very huge small animal surgery text book, it doesn't mention it as a complication? In short, I don't know. ;) Edited April 14, 2010 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I think if it caused any sort of continuing pain, it wouldn't be done as extensively as it is. Orbit was back to normal a few days following his and has never showed signs of pain or discomfort when moving around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Adhesions? That's the word, thanks. All I could think of at the time of posting was "lesions" but I knew it wasn't that. I expect you're right. In Kal's case the adhesions would have been more adhoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to Dogs Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Attached is the result of research I did recently on bloat/GDV for another forum. Thought some of you might find it useful. bloat.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toughgirl27 Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Speaking to someone this morning about a 5 month old large breed bitch pup who was desexed. The vet told them that while she was under they'd fix her hernia and do something so she wouldn't bloat. Fair enough fixing the hernia but the bloat bit? I'd not heard of this. Any opinions? Yeah, I've heard they can do a procedure on young large breed, deep chested puppies so they won't bloat - fixing the stomach to the intestinal wall i think? I've heard they do it on Weimarana's. XXtoughgirlXxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Attached is the result of research I did recently on bloat/GDV for another forum. Thought some of you might find it useful.bloat.doc Nice write up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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