Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) RubyStar Maybe it's the camera angle but I would have lead out with obstacles and dog on the left for the opening sequence, then there wouldn't have been a cross while the dog was in the tunnel - though that's usually a good place to do it. For the weaves - yes it's hard to get the dog to focus forward (look where it's going). I often have to stop mine before we start the weaves and she gets very frustrated but otherwise she just jumps in the middle of them. And we haven't got the arc going very well with two or four poles very well at all. So that's where I need to get some training in and only little bits often I suppose to stop her from shutting down. But we also haven't got that foundation persistance thing going either. Ie dog gets frustrated, dog needs to keep trying instead of go sniffing (displacement). What helps is letting her know when she's going right, so if I do make her do a drop to slow her down before the weaves, I need to tell her "yes" so she knows she's doing right. Or she gets frustrated. She don't go sniff so much any more but she does start barking a lot. Maybe if you put a jump before your weaves at training ie if she misses the entry - go back to the previous jump and then try running them again - to teach the collection. I'm not sure about keeping going - ie you don't want to reward the missed entry by keeping running, you do want her to know it's not what you want - and if she's frustrated - then she at least understands, where as if you keep going - she's not going to learn correct entries. Not sure how to balance the joy in that one, but SG would let the dog experience frustration and then stop her training when they get it right and P A R T Y. That's one place I was going wrong - ie we'd get it right and then I'd want to repeat that when i really should have a huge party with my dog immediately. Edited November 14, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Just gatecrashing to ask about joining agility. I live at Glenwood, near Baulkham Hills, and i think there maybe agilty at Castle Hill, can anyone recommend it, or another? I have never tried it before, but my 6 year old cattle x bc needs some more work, he is a "beta" dog, who has been causing issue's in my pack ( sorting through those with K9 pro ). He currently wears a weighted dog backpack to make hin work harder on the walks, but i thought agilty mihght work his mind more, he is very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) There are 2 clubs at Castle Hill. Agility Dog Club of NSW trains at Castle Hill Showground on Thursday evenings http://www.agility.org.au/ Paws 4 Fun train at Eric Mobbs Reserve, Excelsior Rd, Castle Hill on Sunday afternoons/evenings http://www.paws4fun.org.au/ ADC is a much bigger, busier club affiliated with DogsNSW, Paws 4 Fun is a much smaller, quieter club affiliated with ADAA. Edited November 14, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 I had a great weekend trialling with the dogs. Ruby polished off her JDX title with a 1st place so pretty chuffed with that! ... I am giving crappy signals all over the place especially with weaver entries, help! Go easy on me though, I'm a very novice handler with no real idea of what I'm doing. This is a dog that hasn't been in any proper instructed classes, we just messed around ourselves. She's looking really great RS On a straight entry, Try hanging back a bit & let her find the entry on her own & then catch up. Her weaves are looking pretty awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Thanks, Vickie I'm happy with some of the stuff she's doing, she's a lot of fun to run (when she's not giving me the middle finger!) Definitely a different dog to run than Ruby! I've tried variations of straight on entries in the past. Hanging back and letting her find her own entry does work for her, but not every time. So I played around with zooming past the weaves myself and letting her find it all on her own that way, and I was surprised to see she was having quite a bit of success with that. However, I am not game enough to do that in a trial just yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I've had a similar issue with my young dog, for a variety of reasons - nothing to do with the 2 x 2 training method. What I've done is made a real effort to take 4 poles out and work them anywhere I can - even at trials. I take advantage of the weavers being out when I do go to training to work a full 12 poles in a different environment and mimic the dead straight entries we see so often in Novice so she can work on collection. Because we've had issues with them in trials I also use the absolute top rewards I can to rebuild her value for them - her favourite soccer ball as a toy, and chicken necks for food because she loves them and they are easy to throw accurately. Her weaves have improved out of sight as a result - the more she fully understands, the more her confidence builds and the better she gets. :D I think I need the weaves permanently set up for at least a few weeks and repeat what I did when I first trained her. 5 minutes before work, 5 minutes after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A small training brag (but Susan Garrett said to celebrate the small successes!) - I got Kaos to tug around his empty treat bag! One of my problems had been that if I went out wearing my treat bag, he wouldn't tug (he wanted his favourite toy or food rather than tug). So I decided to start small with the distractions with an empty treat bag on the ground a distance away from where we were tugging. He went to check out the treat bag but then did come back to tug! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A small training brag (but Susan Garrett said to celebrate the small successes!) - I got Kaos to tug around his empty treat bag! One of my problems had been that if I went out wearing my treat bag, he wouldn't tug (he wanted his favourite toy or food rather than tug). So I decided to start small with the distractions with an empty treat bag on the ground a distance away from where we were tugging. He went to check out the treat bag but then did come back to tug! :D See that's AWESOME - and you have to get excited about baby steps with a dog that prefers food over tug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well done on the progress Kavik Kyzer and I are still in a different room to the food bowl but we're getting closer, slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I haven't added food yet that will be a challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I know not everyone is fans of the SG stuff, but I have to say it still surprises me how well her foundation agility stuff builds over time to give some pretty awesome results. I've done a bit of the Its Yer Choice stuff but I don't live and breathe it - I'm not that dedicated. I work both my dogs off camp chairs, dog beds or even the ground. Put one in a drop, work the other for a few mins and reward the one in a drop here and there and then swap dogs, rinse and repeat a few times. I've also been training both my dogs around open treat containers for some time with no treat stealing and no breaking position. No "leave it" or "ah" or "stay" used, and my dogs aren't lacking in drive. Tonight I did a contact session with both dogs, so an open container of cut up cheap steak, and an Isqueak, and put each one in a drop within a few metres as I worked the other with either food or the iSqueak depending on what I was working. Not thinking I put both dogs in a drop, and headed off to find the favourite soccer ball. Found it and returned, only to realise what I'd done. I'd put both dogs in a drop right in front of the open container of steak pieces and neither of them had moved and the container was exactly as I left it. They did score a pretty good jackpot for that effort :D What a great result! Your dogs definitely don't lack drive Yes, I'm not that dedicated to SG stuff but she does have some fabulous ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I haven't added food yet that will be a challenge! You have to start somewhere!!! Ziggy found tugging rather aversive but will now tug at training/trials whilst I'm actually holding food in my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) That's awesome TSD! Kaos is 5 1/2 so a long history of getting away with not tugging when he decided he didn't want to. Whether we can get to the point of tugging at trials I don't know, but we are giving it a go, treating tugging as a separate exercise at the moment. I am still training atm with other rewards at training classes, so not as hard core about it as I could be, but I am not prepared to stop going altogether until we can tug. Susan Garrett has great ideas and she is also very good at coming up with names for her concepts that are catchy and get her ideas/methods across. ETA: this is why I am tempted to do Recallers and her Contacts course - she is able to distill her ideas well and is good at getting them across, and are about building on your relationship with the dog as well as the mechanics of the exercise. I haven't done Crate Games or It's Yer Choice still making my mind up about them. They are the backbone of her program, naughty me just picking and choosing what to do atm Edited November 17, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Good Job Kavik! Its interesting that you say Kaos prefers food to tugging. Mindy also prefers food, but will still tug in the presence of food but I've never felt that it is an "ideal" reward for her. I guess I am scared that she'll be disappointed that she got a tug and not food and then not want to perform well next time. It is probably ridiculous on my part because I taught her to weave (sort of) with a ball and I've also taught her other things with the ball, so its not like she HAS to have food. I love the way herding breeds work so well for tugs and when their owners swing them around with the tug Its really too much effort for me to do that with a 30kg labrador though!!! Mindy is very strong with her tug and basically just rips it out of my hands then runs away. So its not overly enjoyable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Ah, bringing it back - still a work in progress for us He is on lead so can't run off, he is starting to get better about choosing to bring it back happily rather than stand there and ignore me, but a way to go yet. I am glad that he is not a big dog and I can swing him around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) The thing is, Kavik, even if you NEVER get to tug at a trial the learning curve for you will be brilliant - I think that's what I love about dog training. For example, Em is so birdy that I can't ever provide a reward that valuable. However, because I've had that experience with Ziggy (sniffing and lifting his leg was a billion times more interesting than what I had to offer) I've been able to work with Em's genetic drive and channel that into something constructive for my purposes. End dog training rave ETA: To clarify, it's becoming MUCH more about the journey than attaining the goal. Edited November 17, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yes this is brilliant experience and should help to make me a better trainer and help me when I face similar challenges with the next dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I found this a bit funny the other day - Kyzer tried to 'cheat' to get his food quicker, instead of actually tugging and growling (he's quite noisy) he was putting his mouth near the toy (rubbing his face on it) and not actually biting, but making the loudest noises ever, and more high pitched than usual, I think he was trying to trick me into thinking he was doing it I was cracking up, crazy dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 He sounds like a hoot amypie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I've had a similar issue with my young dog, for a variety of reasons - nothing to do with the 2 x 2 training method. What I've done is made a real effort to take 4 poles out and work them anywhere I can - even at trials. I take advantage of the weavers being out when I do go to training to work a full 12 poles in a different environment and mimic the dead straight entries we see so often in Novice so she can work on collection. Because we've had issues with them in trials I also use the absolute top rewards I can to rebuild her value for them - her favourite soccer ball as a toy, and chicken necks for food because she loves them and they are easy to throw accurately. Her weaves have improved out of sight as a result - the more she fully understands, the more her confidence builds and the better she gets. :D I think I need the weaves permanently set up for at least a few weeks and repeat what I did when I first trained her. 5 minutes before work, 5 minutes after work. I've done this as well. Zee was so excited we had weave whinges all the way through 12 poles last time she trialled - love it! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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