Rottweiler Tears Off Shop Worker's Lip - Nz Herald

[becks]

on reading the OP my first thought was a young dog who was a little over stimulated by being in a busy petshop and suddenly someone comes over waving a treat at the dog, dog jumps up for treat and accidentally grabs hold of the girl instead - people who do not know much about dogs do wave treats around near to theri own face and if she was also trying to pat the dog on the head (which a lot of dogs don't like, nevermind what breed they are) could have obstructed the dogs view of the treat.

i think we need to know the facts of the lead up to this event before shouting for muzzles and not taking vicious dogs out in public!

[jackie_a1]

Well Becks I disagree strongly.

The dog has bitten once serious enough that the ladies lip was bleeding and she was injured. That is a SERIOUS bite. Any intention to bite to me is serious. Of course I would not get the dog put down and I have no intention of promoting that the dog be put down at all. HOWEVER the dog has bitten once in public to a stranger. Are you really going to continue to walk this dog unmuzzled at the risk that the incident can occur not with an adult staff member but to perhaps a child? If the owner couldn't decipher it's dogs behaviour, regardless if it was fearful, uncomfortable or aggressive then the dog needs to be correctly restrained. So you're going to risk taking the dog out because he only bit once and he may not do it again. Or the lady approached him wrong so that justifies the dog biting her? No that is a wrong sentiment and responsibility needs to be assigned correctly.

Do I think the dog is savage? No. Do I think the lady may have approached the dog wrong? Possibly? Does that justify the fact the dog bit the lady? NO. I think people are forgetting that this was a pet shop. This wasn't at the local dog park where she needs permission to ask to approach the dog or the mans home and I realise you generally always need permission to pat a strange dog but this was the store she was working at and had confidence in the fact that the dogs that were going to come in were most likely going to be friendly. She did not take into account that there could have been an aggressive dog and yes this leads back to my earlier statement about proper training and education for staff.

I love rotts I owned one beautiful dog. But in order for this dog to live a long and peaceful existence, it's owner needs better control of its dog otherwise perhaps the next time he lunges it could be fatal and no one should be willing to take that risk. So basically. Muzzle the dog in future.

[aussielover]

I am glad the Rottie is not being PTS, but i believe the owner should seek the help of a professional behaviourist/trainer, to ensure the dog does not do this again.

I'm sorry, but the girl did not step into the dogs territory (yes she stepped into his personal space), it was a public place (different story if in the dogs own home).

I believe a person should be able to give a dog a treat without having their face ripped off. I don't know what actions the girl took to provoke the dog into doing this, perhaps bending over it or something, but surely a well socialised, well adpated dog that has been taught bite inhibition would AT MOST give a warning nip or growl- not rip her lip off.

I don't think this dog is safe to take out in public places, sure it might be fine around it's owbers or knowledgeable dog people but the majority of people don't know much about dog behaviour.

I personally expect my dogs to cope with most social situations, including people bending over them to give a treat or pats.

I hope the girl recovers and they owner takes some responsibility for the actions of his dog and ensures it does not happen again.

[aussielover]

on reading the OP my first thought was a young dog who was a little over stimulated by being in a busy petshop and suddenly someone comes over waving a treat at the dog, dog jumps up for treat and accidentally grabs hold of the girl instead - people who do not know much about dogs do wave treats around near to theri own face and if she was also trying to pat the dog on the head (which a lot of dogs don't like, nevermind what breed they are) could have obstructed the dogs view of the treat.

i think we need to know the facts of the lead up to this event before shouting for muzzles and not taking vicious dogs out in public!

So you would not muzzle a dog that has caused serious injury to a member of public?

I'm not saying don't take it out at all but I personally think it is irresponsible NOT to muzzle a dog that has a history of causing serious injury.

Especially seeing as we don't know all the facts.

[jackie_a1]

I personally expect my dogs to cope with most social situations, including people bending over them to give a treat or pats

Same here Aussie I am exactly the same. There is no justification of the dog biting the staff member period. If it was scared or the dog felt threatened or felt the need to protect itself and owner then it was the owners responsibility to A) Not bring a dog that is of risk to the general public to the store or B) Be able to correctly handle and restrain the dog.

[poodlefan]

Hotfurball:

There was an incident involving a highly trained police dog that bit a celebrity journo during an interview with the police handler when the interviewer/journo leaned over the dog. Sorry but I think that situation makes a bit of a joke of the comment "It's how the dog was raised."

Actually, I think it reinforces it. Police dogs are not pets. They are not socialised as pups to view all strangers as friends and they certainly aren't expected to tolerate uninvited approaches from strangers.

Edited July 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[DerRottweiler]

How do you guys know that this wasn't a first for the dog and that the owner had no prior knowledge of such behaviour?

The staff member is admitting fault, you don't go up to a strange dog and get up in its space or behave in a way that the dog might

find threatening to itself or or its owner.

Sure, a stable dog, that has been well socialised and so on, should not bite a person in public.......but dogs are dogs, you never know what they are going to do next. Do you honestly think people who have had their dogs maul a kid, expected the dog to do so?

At the end of the day, a dog is a dog, you just don't know what they are going to do next. We can minimise the unpredictability with well bred dogs and proper socialisation, but at the end of the day, a dog is a dog.

[tarope]

That was my big mistake, I think. Apparently rottweilers don't like being patted on the head. There was no one to blame but me because it was an accident I caused. It was just one of those things that happened." She also wanted to learn more about animals. "If I'd known more about rottweilers I probably wouldn't have been so friendly." :D

Can you believe this statement, I don't know who told her Rotties don't like to be pat on the head or not to be friendly with them. I hope the NZ Rottie club contact her and explain that it wasn't her fault and Rotties are not like this.

At the last Rottie club fun day there were plenty of Rotties,people,kids and some other breeds all mixing together.

Every one had a great day and no one was attacked or lost any fingers in the cleanest teeth contest why? Because it all falls back on the owners as to how the dogs are raised.

I disagree with the statement that aggressive behaviour is the result of how a dog is raised. It's easy to raise a dog of solid nerve and stable temperament over a dog that is overly sharp and nervy which is dependant upon the traits of the individual dog. Over the years, I have had some wonderful GSD service dogs that were freindly joyous pets and others that you could never trust and were an absolute handful to control albiet, had exactly the same training regimes, not all temperaments and dispositions in one breed are the same IMO.

Cheers

Nev

A dog of any breed if raised correctly, by this I mean plenty of socialization. Going to obedience training at 4 mths meeting people and other dogs and getting plenty of pats and treats made a part of the family is going to turn out much better than a poor dog that's been kept in the yard on a chain. Having done all of this and the dog bites someone, then it could be a problem with the dogs DNA who knows. Of cause I'm talking about family pets and not police dogs.

It's the owner who molds the pup into a well adjusted and stable adult, the owner is responsible. My own Rottie is an ex-cruelty case and she was very scared of me and would hit the ground if I raised my hand. It took a long time to gain her trust,today she's a great example of her breed and loves pats and treats.

[jackie_a1]

How do you guys know that this wasn't a first for the dog and that the owner had no prior knowledge of such behaviour?

The staff member is admitting fault, you don't go up to a strange dog and get up in its space or behave in a way that the dog might

find threatening to itself or or its owner.

So then saying that if it was you bitten would you still be so quick to ease blame? You have to put it in context. I do not think she was getting in its space they were attending an event for a pet shop day being exposed to different people in small spaces would not have been unexpected. People bring their dogs to these days knowing there will be an array of people and other pets. I do not think the dog had justification of being threatened she was approaching with a treat.

Sure, a stable dog, that has been well socialised and so on, should not bite a person in public.......but dogs are dogs, you never know what they are going to do next. Do you honestly think people who have had their dogs maul a kid, expected the dog to do so?

But Der you don't know if this dog was well socialized and stable. We don't know anything about the dog. There is a big difference being unsure if your dog is going to bark in public to being unsure if your dog is going to lunge at someone's face and bite their lip. You cannot say dogs are dogs they will behave like dogs. So if Razor bit a child I'd just say he's never shown any aggression towards kids before, he was just being a dog. Dogs are dogs. And that means I am not responsible?

I think we need to stop trying to lay the blame solely on the staff member and realise there are both parties to blame here.

The staff member who may have incorrectly approached the dog triggering the behaviour.

The owner who did not have correct control over his dog.

That's it. The pet shop should not be blamed they organized what they thought was going to be a fun event and it turned pear shape that doesn't mean no more days like this should be continued because of one incident that quite frankly could have been avoided with basic animal education.

[DerRottweiler]

How do you guys know that this wasn't a first for the dog and that the owner had no prior knowledge of such behaviour?

The staff member is admitting fault, you don't go up to a strange dog and get up in its space or behave in a way that the dog might

find threatening to itself or or its owner.

So then saying that if it was you bitten would you still be so quick to ease blame? You have to put it in context. I do not think she was getting in its space they were attending an event for a pet shop day being exposed to different people in small spaces would not have been unexpected. People bring their dogs to these days knowing there will be an array of people and other pets. I do not think the dog had justification of being threatened she was approaching with a treat.

Sure, a stable dog, that has been well socialised and so on, should not bite a person in public.......but dogs are dogs, you never know what they are going to do next. Do you honestly think people who have had their dogs maul a kid, expected the dog to do so?

But Der you don't know if this dog was well socialized and stable. We don't know anything about the dog. There is a big difference being unsure if your dog is going to bark in public to being unsure if your dog is going to lunge at someone's face and bite their lip. You cannot say dogs are dogs they will behave like dogs. So if Razor bit a child I'd just say he's never shown any aggression towards kids before, he was just being a dog. Dogs are dogs. And that means I am not responsible?

I think we need to stop trying to lay the blame solely on the staff member and realise there are both parties to blame here.

The staff member who may have incorrectly approached the dog triggering the behaviour.

The owner who did not have correct control over his dog.

That's it. The pet shop should not be blamed they organized what they thought was going to be a fun event and it turned pear shape that doesn't mean no more days like this should be continued because of one incident that quite frankly could have been avoided with basic animal education.

I'm not concocting possible stories, I am sticking to the facts.

You don't know the circumstances, you can't say she wasn't in the dogs personal space, that is impossible to ascertain from the facts, which is why you have to give the dog and the owner the benefit of the doubt (applying the legal maxim here...)

As above, we do not know anything about the dog, therefore, we cannot blame it. You are blaming the dog, yet you don't know any of the background facts.

Based on what I have read, the staff member has accepted blame, therefore, she can blamed.

The dog owner, has not accepted blame and given that we, again, do not know the background circumstances, one cannot affix blame to the dog/owner.

That's it.

[K9Nev]

Hotfurball:

There was an incident involving a highly trained police dog that bit a celebrity journo during an interview with the police handler when the interviewer/journo leaned over the dog. Sorry but I think that situation makes a bit of a joke of the comment "It's how the dog was raised."

Actually, I think it reinforces it. Police dogs are not pets. They are not socialised as pups to view all strangers as friends and they certainly aren't expected to tolerate uninvited approaches from strangers.

It depends on the training, the handler and the individual dog as to how a police dog reacts. Police dogs that react to a non threatening situation are either overly trained in suspicion and defence or are nervy dogs that probably shouldn't be on the job. I used to enjoy bitework demonstrations in shopping malls where afterwards the kids watching would come over and pat the dogs, get a lick on the face as a public reinforcement that a police dog wasn't dangerous to the public unless commanded to be. We did select the better dogs for these demonstrations with good handlers, but some of the best working dogs with the highest levels of fighting drive, were the sweetest most placid dogs in the home environment

Cheers

Nev

[K9Nev]

That was my big mistake, I think. Apparently rottweilers don't like being patted on the head. There was no one to blame but me because it was an accident I caused. It was just one of those things that happened." She also wanted to learn more about animals. "If I'd known more about rottweilers I probably wouldn't have been so friendly."

Can you believe this statement, I don't know who told her Rotties don't like to be pat on the head or not to be friendly with them. I hope the NZ Rottie club contact her and explain that it wasn't her fault and Rotties are not like this.

At the last Rottie club fun day there were plenty of Rotties,people,kids and some other breeds all mixing together.

Every one had a great day and no one was attacked or lost any fingers in the cleanest teeth contest why? Because it all falls back on the owners as to how the dogs are raised.

I disagree with the statement that aggressive behaviour is the result of how a dog is raised. It's easy to raise a dog of solid nerve and stable temperament over a dog that is overly sharp and nervy which is dependant upon the traits of the individual dog. Over the years, I have had some wonderful GSD service dogs that were freindly joyous pets and others that you could never trust and were an absolute handful to control albiet, had exactly the same training regimes, not all temperaments and dispositions in one breed are the same IMO.

Cheers

Nev

A dog of any breed if raised correctly, by this I mean plenty of socialization. Going to obedience training at 4 mths meeting people and other dogs and getting plenty of pats and treats made a part of the family is going to turn out much better than a poor dog that's been kept in the yard on a chain. Having done all of this and the dog bites someone, then it could be a problem with the dogs DNA who knows. Of cause I'm talking about family pets and not police dogs.

It's the owner who molds the pup into a well adjusted and stable adult, the owner is responsible. My own Rottie is an ex-cruelty case and she was very scared of me and would hit the ground if I raised my hand. It took a long time to gain her trust,today she's a great example of her breed and loves pats and treats.

You raise an interesting point Tarope and what you achieved with your Rottweiler was raising a submissive dog into a well adjusted pet which is good work. But had your girl been dominant and defence driven attacking you when raising your hand which also happens in cruelty cases, the rehabilitation of that situation would be entirely different with far more work required to achieve the same result possibly never gaining complete trust.

I have a GSD I rescued that had bitten twice and was destined to be PTS that came from a very good home but was not a good stable breeding and the dog is nervy and overly sharp and the original owners couldn't handle him. He is a good dog today, a great pet, but you can't trust him with stangers.........I don't trust him with strangers and would never let anyone pat him and consequently handle him accordingly.

Cheers

Nev

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

I think I may have seen the clip that Hotfoot is talking about , both the jorno and the handler were way out of line , the guy not only lent over the dog but spent a good 2 min hitting the poor thing on the head ( that slap slap type type of pat some people do ) , I know my dogs would not see that as a pat! , then he goes to put his arms around the dogs neck , this is when the poor thing bit him ,

the poor dog was clearly giving signals that he didnt like this his handler did not intervene , he was clearly a dog that doesnt like to be touched on the head , his handler did not intervene ,

When someone wants to pat or touch my dogs they do it by my rules , if any of my dogs look uncomfortable I stop the interaction , I dont think they would ever bite but why put your dog through something they dont like just to make a stranger happy .

As we do not know all the circumstances in relation to the incident it is hard to say what did happen, and judge what should be done , but if it was anything close to the above , then both the owner and the staff member stuffed up

[Odin-Genie]

I personally expect my dogs to cope with most social situations, including people bending over them to give a treat or pats.

Totally agree. If I thought my dogs would bite when people try to pat or invade their personal space, they would be muzzled in public. If a dog reacts that easily, it is obviously not stable.