Answer From Another Thread.

[oakway]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

Who is 'they'? I don't believe this theory at nay rate, regardless of who 'they' are... unless 'they' are radical extremists in general.

I find it more plausible to believe that when people call for change, they don't think it through and look ahead. They only see their small parametre of what they feel needs changing. The impact of this shortsightedness and blinkered view is that the net is cast far wider than intended.

I also feel it is our gross entanglement of legislation, and those that create and manage it, and laws that compunds the issues.

i think it means "they" the animal groups calling for bans. or they could mean RSPCA, the stuff they have on their website about pedigree dogs i could very well believe it too. its just total crap i still think that half of what RSPCA are saying in their website is from no one ever stepping into the dogworld adn taking a look around and see what goes on. it sounds like RSPCA are quoting direct from PDE.

Sorry I should have made it more clear

They can appear as who ever you wish

RSPCA

PETA

Animal Liberation

As far as I am concerned any person or body that opposes the breeding of Pure Bred Dogs. ( Maybe in todays climate that should read any person that breeds a dog weather it be pure or not).

[toy dog]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

Who is 'they'? I don't beleive this theory at nay rate, regardless of who 'they' are... unless 'they' are radical extremists in general.

I find it more plausible to believe that when people call for change, they don't think it through and look ahead. They only see their small parametre of what they feel needs changing. The impact of this shortsightedness and blinkered view is that the net is cast far wider than intended.

I also feel it is our gross entanglement of legislation, and those that create and manage it, and laws that compunds the issues.

In the main I agree with you and I think mostly thats what is going on. However, SOME such as animal lib and PETA most definitely have an agenda to stop all breeding. Its a bit silly to assume that some "theys" are not pulling some strings in this lot.

Just as some also have an agenda to stop people from breeding first cross designer dogs so too do some have a desire to stop purebred breeders from breeding.

Problem among breeders is that everyone thinks they are the best and they are special and that anything that may happen to them [ anyone other than them] is a good thing and because they are so much more ethical and fan bloody tastic they can afford to demand higher permit prices, laws regarding genetic conditions blah blah blah and anything else they can think of to stick it to them and shut them down. In fact they end up just sticking it to themselves. :p

DPI suggested that is what the council can do, the councils can ask for any price for permits apparently. but i was then thinking when the guy was saying that, where does that leave the little pepole like us that just want to have a little team of showdogs? do we then pay the same high prices for permits he was mentioning 30,000 and above. that would sure spell the end of reg breeders thats for sure. but from my understanding he was referring to the registered puppy farm business that keeps 700 plus dogs and above and these large hectare properties of rural farming land.

i asked the question to, in that council of the 14 farms that it was established were in that shire, how many are registered breeders, are they being included in this count? no was the answer that does not include reg breeders.

Edited October 15, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

Toydog it doesn't matter what they call themselves they have one objective and that is to get rid of dog breeders . Full Stop

Who is 'they'? I don't believe this theory at nay rate, regardless of who 'they' are... unless 'they' are radical extremists in general.

I find it more plausible to believe that when people call for change, they don't think it through and look ahead. They only see their small parametre of what they feel needs changing. The impact of this shortsightedness and blinkered view is that the net is cast far wider than intended.

I also feel it is our gross entanglement of legislation, and those that create and manage it, and laws that compunds the issues.

i think it means "they" the animal groups calling for bans. or they could mean RSPCA, the stuff they have on their website about pedigree dogs i could very well believe it too. its just total crap i still think that half of what RSPCA are saying in their website is from no one ever stepping into the dogworld adn taking a look around and see what goes on. it sounds like RSPCA are quoting direct from PDE.

Sorry I should have made it more clear

They can appear as who ever you wish

RSPCA

PETA

Animal Liberation

As far as I am concerned any person or body that opposes the breeding of Pure Bred Dogs. ( Maybe in todays climate that should read any person that breeds a dog weather it be pure or not).

and if RSPCA keep putting that crap up on their website about pedigree breeds and how bad breed standards are, then in the same breath saying go to a reg breeder :p then there are gona be alot more peple opposed to pedigree dogs too ifthey have their way.

Edited October 15, 2010 by toy dog

[Steve]

HAVE YOU GOT THE CONNECTION YET?

From the animal liberation website.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Please help us push for a ban on puppy factories by sending a letter to Premier John Brumby via the oscarslaw.org website.

14 September 2010

ALV's openrescue team has been busy documenting horrific conditions on Victorian puppy farms over the past 18 months. From one end of the state to the other it's clear the situation is dire for dogs, who are locked up for years and used as breeding machines. Once they are no longer economically viable they get killed. One puppy farmer told us "Yeah, they get a bullet to the head!".

BAN PUPPY FARMS RALLY!

When: Sunday, Sep 19, 12pm – 2pm

Where: Steps of Parliament House, Melbourne.

Skye Brown is an animal rights activist who has been a member of ALV's Openrescue team since 2008. In the last 2 years he has recorded video footage at many Victorian puppy farms.

"Before I set foot on a puppy farm, I really didn't know where the puppies in Australian pet shops came from. It's easy to pretend that the puppies staring out through the glass originally came from caring and loving environments. Now I know first hand that these pups and their parents have experienced pure hell. These puppies are mass produced in factories right here in Victoria. You wouldn't believe how many of these puppy factories are hidden away from view, operating with the silent approval from government and local council.

What is clear throughout all of the puppy factories I have witnessed, is that these animals are treated as mere commodities. They are held in what can only be described as prisons. Puppies are taken away from their mothers when they are weeks old - never to be seen again. Meanwhile the mothers are forced to continue on as breeding machines, they are then killed when their bodies can no longer cope with the continual breeding.

ALV is currently working in conjunction with Oscar's Law to investigate the ongoing abuse of dogs in puppy farms. We all need to keep exposing these horrific puppy factories and putting pressure on the government to end this cruel profiteering."

Visit oscarslaw.org for more information.

Please contact Premier John Brumby and let him know that puppy factories must stop: [email protected]

so wheres the bit that says we are going to be treated the same as a puppy factory under the same laws, this is the connection im looking for. not bits about puppy farms. :p

so are you saying that we shouldn't say anything about this movement to rat out puppy farms because this is directly related to us? or will be down the track, tht is just so crap, where is the justice in this?

so we should turn a blind eye to these puppy factories in our backyards. even though i've been told numerous times that reg breeders aren't being targetted are these people lying?

who is lying who is tellng the truth. meanwhile these factories with these arseholes (sorry but thats what they are are allowed to continue) continue to churn out these pups.

i will never turn a blind eye to that. the wellington shire are getting flooded with letters because of oscarslaw people and i can't say i feel sorry for them, as a response they have taken a few to court over the years. each time they have been thrown out of court in the farmers favour. because they say of inadequate laws.

Toy dogs part of the problem is that I don't think anyone is lying. I think everyone does really think they are telling the truth.Oscars law really isn't targeting ethical responsible breeders but over and over again you are told that just because that isn't the intention that doesn't mean that it wont happen and how much more do you need to see there is a real danger for us in all of this?

The answer doesn't lie in pushing for new laws but its too late in Victoria because there is already a promise of new harder laws and what ever the consequences for registered breeders those who have backed a call for harder tougher laws will have to account for the role they played in their own demise. Time will tell but there is nothing in history or in any other country of the world which would make a case to say introducing more laws is going to solve the problem.

you are preaching to the already converted! i know that we don't need any more stupid laws to the point where we will be saying we aren't a free country anymore, i agree with this 100% so then how does banning petshop sales of cats and dogs relate to us then? a pure ban i am talking about not with anything tacked on.

you are right you said so far no one is moving to do this because you know why, there is great pressure from a multi-million dollar industry not to ban it , money speaks louder than common sense and thats all they will listen to, money talks. if this happened at least it would curb some farms who rely on petshop sales to survive, it was estimated that 95% of their income comes from petshop sales. i have also heard this on the grape vine many times over the years as i say i grew up in the area with the most farms. because of all this bad publicity lately sales have actually plumuted in puppy farms.

No its not just because its a multi million dollar industry its because its against federal law. Federal laws take precedence over all others.You cant make laws which are anti competitive or restrict sales in one state when its not law in Australia. It wont happen - it wont happen. Don't you get it - even you are able to sell your puppies to pet shops?

Don't you hear me when I tell you that the ANKC stood against Clover Moore and with PIAA when she tried to stop the sales of puppies in pet shops? Not even your own purebred dog registry supports calls for stopping the sale of pets in pet shops - how on earth does anyone seriously think there's even a remote chance that this is even a goer? Listen no one is saying O.K. then we will stop the sales of pets in pet shops if we get in are they? It wont happen whether you think thats the answer or not. You dont even have anything to back up your arguments.Where are the stats, where is the science , the studies? You just look like a bunch of redneck greenies, animal rights loonies.

[Steve]

Go and have a look - Not even the RSPCA are calling for a ban of animals in pet shops. why do you think that is ?Cant you see how crazy it is for people to be calling for laws like this ?

http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-the-RSPCA-p...-shops_222.html

[oakway]

Will this help about pet shop sales.

Mr Neil Laurie

The Clerk of the Parliament

Queensland Parliamentary Service

Parliament House

George Street

Brisbane Qld 4000

N~

Dear~

Thank you for your letter of 15 September 2010 concerning a petition (Petition

1398-10) to

prohibit the sale of cats and dogs in pet shops received by the Queensland

Legislative

Assembly.

The Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation (DEEDI),

through

Biosecurity Queensland, is responsible for animal welfare standards for all

animals in

Queensland through the Animal Care and Protection Act 2001 (ACPA). The ACPA

places a

duty of care on all persons in charge of animals, including pet shops and

breeders to properly

look after their animals.

The ACPA provides a balance between the welfare of animals, community

expectations, and

the interests of persons whose livelihood is dependent upon animals. Banning the

sale of dogs

and cats through a pet shop would need to be justified. Such justification would

need to

demonstrate that the purchase of animals from pet shops results in a

significantly higher risk to

the welfare of animals than purchased from other sources and Biosecurity

Queensland is not

aware of any evidence which supports the case.

The prevention of the sale of dogs and cats through pet shops is likely to drive

sales to other

areas which are more difficult to monitor and have a higher animal welfare risk.

On 8 June

2008, the Premier announced the Queensland Government's strategy to address the

numbers

of dogs and cats euthanased every year. The strategy included:

.

.

the development of a voluntary Code of Practice for Pet Shops (the Pet Shop

Code)

the development of a legislative framework for the Statewide compulsory

registration of

dogs and cats with desexing incentives, microchipping at point of sale and the

tattooing of

animals when desexed

GPO Box 46 Brisbane

Queensland 4001 Australia

Telephone +61 7 3239 3000

Facsimile +61 7 3229 8541

Email dpi@...

ABN 65 959 415 158

a six month public education program.

two-year pilot studies by selected local governments to trial innovative

measures to

increase desexing rates in dogs and cats Level 8

Primary Industries Building

80 Ann Street Brisbane .

.

2

The Pet Shop Code, which was released in December 2008, provides guidelines for

the care

and management of animals in pet shops and encourages pet retailers to source

their animals

from responsible suppliers. DEEDI is continuing to work with pet shops to ensure

the

appropriate guidelines are in place and animal welfare matters are appropriately

managed.

The Animal Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 was passed on 11 December 2008

and

provides for the mandatory registration of all cats and dogs and for the

microchipping of all

puppies and kittens. All local government councils will need to comply with the

Animal

Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 by 12 December 2010.

Four local government councils were allocated a share of $315,000 to conduct

pilot studies

aimed at increasing cat and dog desexing and encourage responsible pet

ownership. These

pilot studies include:

. Moreton Bay Regional Council ($86,000) - working with local veterinary

surgeons to

promote cat desexing, using the RSPCA's Mobile Education Unit and Portable

Animal

Welfare Service

. Gold Coast City Council ($77,000) - trialling an approved breeder permit

scheme and an

education campaign focusing on appropriate enclosures for cats

. Logan City Council ($84,000) - constructing a dedicated community animal

desexing clinic

. Townsville City Council ($68,000) - restarting the CatScan program on Magnetic

Island,

which includes compulsory microchipping of cats over five months and an

education

campaign.

At the conclusion of the pilot studies, consideration will be given as to

whether compulsory

desexing is an appropriate next step. In the meantime, Councils must provide

registration fee

incentives for owners to desex their animals.

DEEDI, through the Office of Fair Trading, is also able to investigate

allegations of false or

misleading representations by traders, including those in the retail sector.

Persons aware of

any breaches are advised to contact the Office of Fair Trading on telephone

137468 or visit

the DEEDI website at www.deedi.qld.gov.au.

If you require any further information regarding this matter, please do not

hesitate to contact

Robert Cassidy of DEEDI on telephone 07 3247 3359 or email

robert.cassidy@....

Yours sincerely

TIM MULHERIN, MP

Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries

and Rural and Regional Queensland

Member for Mackay

[Moselle]

HAVE YOU GOT THE CONNECTION YET?

From the animal liberation website.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Please help us push for a ban on puppy factories by sending a letter to Premier John Brumby via the oscarslaw.org website.

14 September 2010

ALV's openrescue team has been busy documenting horrific conditions on Victorian puppy farms over the past 18 months. From one end of the state to the other it's clear the situation is dire for dogs, who are locked up for years and used as breeding machines. Once they are no longer economically viable they get killed. One puppy farmer told us "Yeah, they get a bullet to the head!".

BAN PUPPY FARMS RALLY!

When: Sunday, Sep 19, 12pm – 2pm

Where: Steps of Parliament House, Melbourne.

Skye Brown is an animal rights activist who has been a member of ALV's Openrescue team since 2008. In the last 2 years he has recorded video footage at many Victorian puppy farms.

"Before I set foot on a puppy farm, I really didn't know where the puppies in Australian pet shops came from. It's easy to pretend that the puppies staring out through the glass originally came from caring and loving environments. Now I know first hand that these pups and their parents have experienced pure hell. These puppies are mass produced in factories right here in Victoria. You wouldn't believe how many of these puppy factories are hidden away from view, operating with the silent approval from government and local council.

What is clear throughout all of the puppy factories I have witnessed, is that these animals are treated as mere commodities. They are held in what can only be described as prisons. Puppies are taken away from their mothers when they are weeks old - never to be seen again. Meanwhile the mothers are forced to continue on as breeding machines, they are then killed when their bodies can no longer cope with the continual breeding.

ALV is currently working in conjunction with Oscar's Law to investigate the ongoing abuse of dogs in puppy farms. We all need to keep exposing these horrific puppy factories and putting pressure on the government to end this cruel profiteering."

Visit oscarslaw.org for more information.

Please contact Premier John Brumby and let him know that puppy factories must stop: [email protected]

Steve, I am confused although I must say that I didnt read each and every line but it seems that you are saying that pushing to have puppy farmers eradicated indicates that all breeders will encounter difficulties yet on your post above you are saying to push for a ban on puppy factories????

Edited October 15, 2010 by Moselle

[Steve]

Good Grief!

Im not saying we should not try to find ways of getting puppy farmers gone.

I just dont agree on this being the way and what you have highlighted in red is from the animal liberation website .

[mortonplace]

Steve lm inboxing you some links..

Please check ur box can handle the messages as i always get its full message Popular gal

[*Bones*]

The letter from the Q government states clearly the position of governments regarding pet shops. They will not ban the sales of pups in pet shops because PIAA is too powerful and they are in favour of pups being sold in shops.

Pet shops source their most profitable live-stock from puppy farms. The supply is constant and reliable

It does not matter what lobbying there is, or what people want, puppy farms will never close while pet shops continue to sell pups. Any regulations enacted will impact on all breeders. Small breeders are less able to bear legislation requiring expensive permits, or buildings, or fees. Puppy farms, however have sufficient income to over ride any small difficulties.

To a politician, a puppy farm = a registered breeder = a byb. They cannot envisage any difference at alll. Any legislation will affect every class of breeder but it is the small time "family" hobby breeder who will be forced to close.

Sorry, Oakway purebred dogs have been dead as dodos for a couple of decades.

[goldchow]

Thank You Oakway, I'd thought of putting that up too but you beat me to it.

Puppies in pet shops can not be banned under current fair trade laws so there's no point in everyone knocking themselves out over this.

Steve has already posted the RSPCAs definition of a puppy farmer in a previous thread, please re read the thread Moselle, its scary stuff, plus the whole atmosphere of that roundtable discussion was about the RSPCA being granted more and more power as the overall, including ANKC breeders, animal welfare policemen, a private organization answerable to no one!!!!

It is a fact of life that commercial puppy farms/mills whatever you want to call them, providing they are set up according to their councils environmental and planning laws will not be shut down, either by Animal Libbers or the RSPCA. In fact it was one such establishment that was held up to a mainly purebred dog audience at a seminar last February at Monash University, Melbourne as an example of the way dog breeding should be done.

Yes it hurt, came out feeling I'd wasted 30 years of my life.

[mortonplace]

http://www.vca.org.au/assets/news/member-forum-24-oct.pdf

lF YOU TRUELY CARE PLEASE READ THE ABOVE AND ATTENED THIS MEETING HERES THE CHANCE TO VOICE CONCERNS

Edited October 15, 2010 by mortonplace

[oakway]

Sorry, Oakway purebred dogs have been dead as dodos for a couple of decades.

Yes I think your right.

I just seem to write it out of sheer habit. I don't know much else other than pure bred dogs.

[~Anne~]

Steve lm inboxing you some links..

Please check ur box can handle the messages as i always get its full message Popular gal

I'll answer for her (and secretly I think she needs to stamp this on her forehead) - it is best to email her: [email protected]

[toy dog]

Thank You Oakway, I'd thought of putting that up too but you beat me to it.

Puppies in pet shops can not be banned under current fair trade laws so there's no point in everyone knocking themselves out over this.

Steve has already posted the RSPCAs definition of a puppy farmer in a previous thread, please re read the thread Moselle, its scary stuff, plus the whole atmosphere of that roundtable discussion was about the RSPCA being granted more and more power as the overall, including ANKC breeders, animal welfare policemen, a private organization answerable to no one!!!!

It is a fact of life that commercial puppy farms/mills whatever you want to call them, providing they are set up according to their councils environmental and planning laws will not be shut down, either by Animal Libbers or the RSPCA. In fact it was one such establishment that was held up to a mainly purebred dog audience at a seminar last February at Monash University, Melbourne as an example of the way dog breeding should be done.

Yes it hurt, came out feeling I'd wasted 30 years of my life.

was it a DD puppy farmer? OMG, they really have no idea do they but they claim they do. really!!! that makes my blood boil to hear that.

[toy dog]

To a politician, a puppy farm = a registered breeder = a byb. They cannot envisage any difference at alll. Any legislation will affect every class of breeder but it is the small time "family" hobby breeder who will be forced to close.

and thats what i mean they really have no idea at all do they. no idea about it. when you say you are a breeder, people immediately ask how much money do you make, i answer none at all, the answer is BULLOCKS ofcourse you make money. so then i <sigh> go into all my vet bills and what i pay for shows, yadda yadda yadda by the end of it they understand but try explaining that to a politician that sits in an ivory tower listening to greedy people that breed their dogs for money alone.

can i ask someone here,what about those breeders just say they are a DOGSVIC breeder has their purebreed and is complying with regs there and is showing etc. ethical there and all that, then decides to breed up DD's alongside the peds get the extra income, getting all the benefits in the council of DOGSVIC membership, are these people classed as puppy farmers and be dealt under such laws i.e. code of practice? people like this give us all a bad name. isn't it any wonder govt and the rest can't tell the difference.

speaking of the code of practice of breeding establishments businesses that i assume puppy farms come under. aren't the govt going to add to that when they say give councils more power, or are they goingto make up new lews totally?

my mother has a question i couldn't answer her, i didn't have enough info.. she isn't on the net im sorry not puter savvy at all........

just say you have a permit for 30 years or more and these new laws come in that we've been talking about, do you now have to apply for a planning and environment permit as well as having your normal permit with the council?

does that mean that it is up to the council to still police you or will it still mean that if you are dobbed in by a neighbor it gives the RSPCA the right to go over the council and state what they want to happen or close you down or modify you? would you have to reapply for that permit with the planning and environment permit added to the normal council permit?

we are discussing this amongst ourselves we'd just like to know.

[toy dog]

Thank You Oakway, I'd thought of putting that up too but you beat me to it.

Puppies in pet shops can not be banned under current fair trade laws so there's no point in everyone knocking themselves out over this.

Steve has already posted the RSPCAs definition of a puppy farmer in a previous thread, please re read the thread Moselle, its scary stuff, plus the whole atmosphere of that roundtable discussion was about the RSPCA being granted more and more power as the overall, including ANKC breeders, animal welfare policemen, a private organization answerable to no one!!!!

It is a fact of life that commercial puppy farms/mills whatever you want to call them, providing they are set up according to their councils environmental and planning laws will not be shut down, either by Animal Libbers or the RSPCA. In fact it was one such establishment that was held up to a mainly purebred dog audience at a seminar last February at Monash University, Melbourne as an example of the way dog breeding should be done.

Yes it hurt, came out feeling I'd wasted 30 years of my life.

so petshops selling cats and dogs will never be banned? farms will never be closed down? what about the poor puppies? the poor mothers who are forced to give birth season after season never having a rest then when they can no longer produce are either bludgened to death, given the green dream or shot. their whole lives are a misery never knowing love, never being cuddled never knowing the gentle touch or a kind word, their whole life is for what? yes i only have good intentions. intensive farming like this is just so inhumane to animals. and they say it happens to pigs too, in metal cages all their lives being forced to feed too many mouths that are at them 24 hours a day large litters and the mothers are in a small metal cage not able to move while they are feeding babies who are running around the cage. one pig was in a small cage she couldn't move so was biting at the metal bars and had blood all over her face. :p i breed and show dogs because i love dogs, i love all animals and i don't want to see them being treated like this.

so what do you do?

im sorry i have to go away and have a good cry and get it all out.

Edited October 15, 2010 by toy dog

[AmandaJ]

Bump....

[Steve]

To a politician, a puppy farm = a registered breeder = a byb. They cannot envisage any difference at alll. Any legislation will affect every class of breeder but it is the small time "family" hobby breeder who will be forced to close.

and thats what i mean they really have no idea at all do they. no idea about it. when you say you are a breeder, people immediately ask how much money do you make, i answer none at all, the answer is BULLOCKS ofcourse you make money. so then i <sigh> go into all my vet bills and what i pay for shows, yadda yadda yadda by the end of it they understand but try explaining that to a politician that sits in an ivory tower listening to greedy people that breed their dogs for money alone.

can i ask someone here,what about those breeders just say they are a DOGSVIC breeder has their purebreed and is complying with regs there and is showing etc. ethical there and all that, then decides to breed up DD's alongside the peds get the extra income, getting all the benefits in the council of DOGSVIC membership, are these people classed as puppy farmers and be dealt under such laws i.e. code of practice? people like this give us all a bad name. isn't it any wonder govt and the rest can't tell the difference.

speaking of the code of practice of breeding establishments businesses that i assume puppy farms come under. aren't the govt going to add to that when they say give councils more power, or are they goingto make up new lews totally?

my mother has a question i couldn't answer her, i didn't have enough info.. she isn't on the net im sorry not puter savvy at all........

just say you have a permit for 30 years or more and these new laws come in that we've been talking about, do you now have to apply for a planning and environment permit as well as having your normal permit with the council?

does that mean that it is up to the council to still police you or will it still mean that if you are dobbed in by a neighbor it gives the RSPCA the right to go over the council and state what they want to happen or close you down or modify you? would you have to reapply for that permit with the planning and environment permit added to the normal council permit?

we are discussing this amongst ourselves we'd just like to know.

Any one can be a Vicdogs member and they can do anything they want with any dog which is not a registered purebred .You can be a Vicdogs member and never breed a dog. You can be a Vicdogs member and breed purebred registered dogs and designer dogs.

In NSW Victoria and Queensland there are breeders who breed both designer dogs and purebred dogs who are members of the state's Canine Association.

Any breeder whether they be Vic dogs or not can breed as many as they want ,sell to pet shops or dealers etc.

There is no suggestion that the government will add to any current mandatory codes and its more likely that they will give the RSPCA more power to police laws and perhaps enable councils to enter properties and such to find breeders more easily which are not complying with local laws. Many council by laws are not enforceable so if the state makes the new laws they can then have more powers of entry and seizure etc automatically.

The RSpca have been pushing governments for the same powers in other states they currently have in NSW and that is the most likely outcome. However, based on the fact that these are promises which have been made if either party gets in and we haven't been told exactly what these laws may be at this point in time its all elementary.

You have to understand that the laws which I discussed in the first post are already in and have been in for ever but councils haven't been that interested in trying to find you or ping you. If someone said anything about you having more than 2 dogs which bought you under council attention right now these planning laws would be used against you. ANYONE in your shire who wants to run a business from home has to comply with planning regs no matter how long they have lived there or how long they have been operating and dog breeding is classified as running a business from home if you have more than 2 dogs. Think it through. If someone complains that your yard stinks or your dog is keeping them awake do you really think they wouldn't use environment and planning laws to make you loose your dogs even though you are a Vicdogs member. Think it through. When new regs came in for butchers they had to comply or shut shop - they couldnt say we have been operating like this for ever so you cant make us comply with the new stuff. Does anyone else get to keep doing what they were doing when new laws and regs come in for any industry? You will get some compensation for things like kennels which have already been approved under a different criteria. You wont have to pull down a kennel block which has been given approval already for example which is too close to the fence according to new regs but thats only if they were already approved to be used for the purpose for which you are using them.

BUT we are still talking about 2 different things a permit for a domestic animal business as per the DPI which gives you exemptions if you are a registered breeder which are dog laws and environment and planning laws.they are not the same thing. If your mum put in an DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION at some time for permission to run a business from home and she was given written approval to do so then she may have a fair argument if someone said she needed to re do that but thats not the whole story.

dont take word for it only your planning officers - not your dog officers can answer that.

[Natsu chan]

All this is so depressing. It seems to me that anyone who doesn't breed on a large scale are screwed. That's how it reads. I have letters here and no idea where to send them, any suggestions?