geo Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Ok this is a little rant.. but i'd like peoples views on it, i may get flamed. We all know about BSL etc.. and how popular amstaffs are becoming, the question is are the same breeders that are breeding "massive heads" "big bones" "extreme muscle" the very people that the breed doesn't need? I'm not disputing their breeding ethics or the quality of their dogs, but breeding 24" 40+kgs amstaffs and promoting how good they are at security and how muscular they are is the same thing that law makers say about resticted breeds being restricted because they're powerful dangerous dogs. (of which is rubbish and i totally disagree with) I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the dogs, or the breeders ideas, ( i disagree slightly) but surely they're attracting the wrong buyers. Many people love the look of amstaffs and i can see why they may like bigger ones but is at the expense of the breed? One breeder, says on their website "big amstaffs", but on another the same breeder says they're selling amstaffs or ambulls, are they fudging papers? Don't get me started on all the rednose amstaffs i've seen for sale!! If i wanted a decent functioning large breed, i'd buy a large breed dog, ie a scotts line american bulldog. It seems the popularity of the amstaff is growing because of media coverage and the links they're drawing to the apbt. Edited October 15, 2010 by geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Ok this is a little rant.. but i'd like peoples views on it, i may get flamed.We all know about BSL etc.. and how popular amstaffs are becoming, the question is are the same breeders that are breeding "massive heads" "big bones" "extreme muscle" the very people that the breed doesn't need? I'm not disputing their breeding ethics or the quality of their dogs, but breeding 24" 40+kgs amstaffs and promoting how good they are at security and how muscular they are is the same thing that law makers say about resticted breeds being restricted because they're powerful dangerous dogs. (of which is rubbish and i totally disagree with) I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the dogs, or the breeders ideas, ( i disagree slightly) but surely they're attracting the wrong buyers. Many people love the look of amstaffs and i can see why they may like bigger ones but is at the expense of the breed? One breeder, says on their website "big amstaffs", but on another the same breeder says they're selling amstaffs or ambulls, are they fudging papers? Don't get me started on all the rednose amstaffs i've seen for sale!! If i wanted a decent functioning large breed, i'd buy a large breed dog, ie a scotts line american bulldog. It seems the popularity of the amstaff is growing because of media coverage and the links they're drawing to the apbt. Wow where are the 24" Am staffs? 5 inches above standard height for a male. Maybe one will turn up on sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 24" is pretty small some days in this part of the world. Some of the Amstaffs I've seen wouldn't be out of place in the Bullmastiff ring. In fact the first Amstaff I ever saw was taller than most Bullmastiffs being shown at that time (I am not exaggerating) Unfortunately this isn't confined to Amstaffs. I think most bull breeds are suffering this trend in the hands of certain breeders. Imagine 30 kg SBTs and cringe about that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 You only have to look at some of the breeders on DOL, check out some prefixes they stand out a mile! Should the breed clubs be allowing breeders to do this? Why get into amstaffs or any dogs if all you want to do is change them, make them into a breed that they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoTree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Thats what happens when many people start to see a dog breed as a penis extention, people jump in and breed for the need. Making em bigger to compensate for something or simply the demand that is being seen from them. Thered still be plenty breeding the dogs as they are supposed to be though and allways will, as strong demand is also there for a dog conforming not only in physical attributes but the proper temperament aswell. Thats my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Should the breed clubs be allowing breeders to do this? The breed clubs have no power to stop it. The ANKC has no power to stop it. The only people that might have a shot at it would be Federal or State government and we really don't need them involved in breeding dogs do we The breed clubs and breeders as individuals can only try to educate one person at a time. You meet someone who thinks your Amstaff is "little'' and politely tell them the facts. It probably won't work because holding back the tide against this bizarre new trend about ''English'' Staffies is hard enough and that's pretty obvious - they ain't freakin' ENGLISH OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I work at a vet clinic and we get some MASSIVE am staffs in. We had a bitch in recently who was built like a mac truck. From memory she was close to 40kg. She was HUGE. Lovely natured dog, but not what an Am Staff is meant to look like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmay Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Yep, some of these breeders sound like absolute bogans to be honest. And whats with the whole "big head" obssession? Gawsh if they keep going their heads will be too big to lift off the ground! It's kind of scary that these sorts of "breaders" are actually registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafhafa Hounds Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) I can't think of the right section to put this comment in, so I'll put it here in the Amstaff thread... I just noticed in my latest (Oct '10) journal that there were 58 (yup!) Amstaff pups registered from one breeder IN ONE MONTH!!! WTF?? One or two litters is enough to cope with in any one YEAR, let alone 8 litters in one month!!! Sonia (picking up my jaw off the ground...) ETA: Sorry counted wrong... it was only 57... whew!! Edited October 16, 2010 by Hafhafa Hounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Ams have no weight restriction, BUT they do have an ideal height. And height and weight must be in proportion. If the breeders have the interest of the breed at heart then I hope they are breeding to the standard. Not always the case of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerRottweiler Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Maybe they are going for a different 'look'. Not saying it is the right thing to do, but, free country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatelina Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 I can't think of the right section to put this comment in, so I'll put it here in the Amstaff thread...I just noticed in my latest (Oct '10) journal that there were 58 (yup!) Amstaff pups registered from one breeder IN ONE MONTH!!! WTF?? One or two litters is enough to cope with in any one YEAR, let alone 8 litters in one month!!! Sonia (picking up my jaw off the ground...) ETA: Sorry counted wrong... it was only 57... whew!! Isn't there a guideline as to how many registered pups can be whelped in a certain time frame anyway? Or does this only reflect coming from the same bitch? (ie. no recommendations as to how many matings and pregnant bitches you have?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafhafa Hounds Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Isn't there a guideline as to how many registered pups can be whelped in a certain time frame anyway? Or does this only reflect coming from the same bitch? (ie. no recommendations as to how many matings and pregnant bitches you have?) Only from the one bitch. And not how many pups - how many litters she can have in a given timeframe. The only restrictions as far as total numbers go would be council/government restrictions, as all the litters were from different bitches (in this case - 8 litters for 57 puppies registered). Sonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 I understand people can breed whatever they want and obviously no one has the power to say;"you can't do that", but I'm thinking more along the lines of clubs informing these breeders that it is not the best image for the Amstaff, or at least they could market them a little different to stop un wanted attention from and popularity among the thug type of dog owner. I bet most of their sales go to family homes and the dogs are great, but it only takes one, this is not to say the same couldn't happen to a "normal size amstaff breeder", or any other breed. I think these types of breeders are selling an image, they're putting too much of themsleves into their breeding. Unless the dogs are being bred very well, they'd be losing stamina and agility, I mean just look at the ambulls, nice looking dogs but not physically well put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstaff_Ambition Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 57 puppies in a month! I'm guessing this breeder also registered large numbers of other breed puppies aswell I get where you are coming from geo, size is getting to be a big issue with the breed there are more and more 'breeders' popping up everyday with the bigger is better theme, big heads, extreme bone and muscle mass (which they are mistaking for FAT) 40+kg beasts which are usually a certain colour because apparently it's worth an extra grand for that colour. The showring is flooded with oversized dogs and the judges are thinking that big is the norm, i have even seen a judge comment on a lineup that all the dogs were standard sized when in fact they ranged from a standard sized 19 inch to another few that were clearly a good 4-5 inches over the other dogs, when the large dogs were awarded a fellow with a Rotty came over to ask if an Amstaff was meant to be bigger than his Rotty. The Amstaff is in no way a large breed, everything is in moderation including it's medium size. Some of the dogs i see displayed on sites you would wager are products of "fudged" papers, what ever happened to graceful & agile. Why get into amstaffs or any dogs if all you want to do is change them, make them into a breed that they're not. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafhafa Hounds Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 57 puppies in a month! I'm guessing this breeder also registered large numbers of other breed puppies aswell Not in the Oct journal - only Amstaffs, but now I'm going to go look back through a few back issues... Sonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafhafa Hounds Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) 57 puppies in a month! I'm guessing this breeder also registered large numbers of other breed puppies aswell Not in the Oct journal - only Amstaffs, but now I'm going to go look back through a few back issues... Sonia Yikes, another 7 litters, same breeder, in the July Journal. 34 more puppies. All Amstaffs, all born in Dec/Jan/Feb... plus another breeder, different kennel name with two parent that have the first breeder's kennel name... Sonia ETA - Every journal I have opened so far has puppies bred by this one breeder, and I'm talking multiple litters per month. Edited October 16, 2010 by Hafhafa Hounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 Yep i definately reckon some of these breeders have fudged papers, like i said one breeder on the DOL list was advertising amstaffs or ambulls on aussietrader. LOL bigger than a rotti! The thing is when people are looking for a dog that looks the goods, will they be able to handle a dog that is driven, stubborn or aggro..? i think not. And the extra grand for big blues, what a joke! this is why people buy unpapared dogs, because they sell for $300-600 in the local rag. I feel like writing on their websites how full of it they are and how they're misrepresenting the amstaffs, along with all the BYB in the paper selling "rare blues","rednose amstaffs", "american rednose", they're just kidding themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 57 puppies in a month! I'm guessing this breeder also registered large numbers of other breed puppies aswell :D Not in the Oct journal - only Amstaffs, but now I'm going to go look back through a few back issues... Sonia Yikes, another 7 litters, same breeder, in the July Journal. 34 more puppies. All Amstaffs, all born in Dec/Jan/Feb... plus another breeder, different kennel name with two parent that have the first breeder's kennel name... Sonia ETA - Every journal I have opened so far has puppies bred by this one breeder, and I'm talking multiple litters per month. You're not on about a certain 'Greek' breeder are you, he must have 50 dogs on his yard. Hopefully the good breeders wil keep these dogs out of their breeding programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 57 puppies in a month! I'm guessing this breeder also registered large numbers of other breed puppies aswell :D Not in the Oct journal - only Amstaffs, but now I'm going to go look back through a few back issues... Sonia Yikes, another 7 litters, same breeder, in the July Journal. 34 more puppies. All Amstaffs, all born in Dec/Jan/Feb... plus another breeder, different kennel name with two parent that have the first breeder's kennel name... Sonia ETA - Every journal I have opened so far has puppies bred by this one breeder, and I'm talking multiple litters per month. You're not on about a certain 'Greek' breeder are you, he must have 50 dogs on his yard. Hopefully the good breeders wil keep these dogs out of their breeding programs. I was thinking the same thing, and I can tell you that this "breeder" is producing "pedigree" puppies in other peoples yards too.. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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