Advice Needed Please...

[Freshstart16]

Hi guys, Im wondering if anyone can help us please. Heres the background on our problem.

My partner and her sister got 2 dogs about 9 years ago, 2 chihuahua cross's. These dogs have lived together almost there entire life. probably spent roughly 1 year apart when they were young, they are both desexed males and were desexed around 2004. Dog 1 (Tug) is very pushy, possessive and dominant over Dog 2 (Leroy).

Dog 2 is very submissive and skittish (im assuming because of Dog 1's behaviour towards him) When I moved in with my partner Dog 1 became very attached to me and has been for the past 3 years. I cant pat Dog 2 (leroy) without dog 1 getting jealous and attacking Dog 2. When he does this we remove Dog 1 from the situation for 5 mins or so. (in a separate room)

If we are on the lounge and the dogs are both up there with us, you scream or make a loud noise Dog 1 one will attack dog 2.

If we pick up dog 2 for a cuddle, before picking up dog 1, dog 2 will hop down because he is scared.

Dog 2 tries to play with the cat and Dog 1 will come and push in and dog 2 goes and hides.

This behaviour has been going on for far too long and we have had enough, I feel as though dog 2 has suppressed part of his personality or whatever because he is too scared.

Dog 1 is also food aggressive and will push dog 2 out the way to eat his food.

I hope I haven't made it too confusing i used the dog 1 dog 2 scenario in the hopes its easier to understand, I realize this behaviour should have been corrected a long time ago but Im asking for help now. I want these guys to live out the rest of there lives in harmony.

Please can anyone offer any advice??? And just to clarify I cannot afford to see a behaviour expert at this time.

Please we are desperate.

[Rebanne]

They are 9 years old. Would be very very hard to change anything now. Dog 1 is boss and maybe you need to accept that

[Souff]

I want these guys to live out the rest of there lives in harmony.

Naomi, the dogs 2 very different personalities here and they are in conflict.

If these two dogs were human beings, you would be looking at a very dysfunctional relationship with domestic violence issues.

You are right - this has been a long standing problem.

My best advice is to try and find a kind and loving owner for the submissive dog, so that he can spend the rest of his years in peace and not being terrorised by the other dog.

Sorry, but if you don't do this, you may well come home one day to 1 dead dog and 1 living dog.

Souff

[Nekhbet]

negative ninnies on here aren't we?

THere is no reason a dog cannot change even at their age. Saying that we dont know the exact circumstances behind what is going on and hence I dont know why saying that rehoming one or being unchangable is an option

get an experienced behaviourist in to properly analyse the situation then move on from there. Meanwhile your sister has to not let dog 1 be a bully. Feed them separately, get a dog crate and teach them to each sleep in one, do NOT let each dog invade the others 'bedroom'. You also need to start just implementing rules for dog 1 that goes for both of them. So from now on humans rule the roost, not the dogs and if the more dominant wants to be a turd put him out for a while so he doesnt end up beating up the other.

There is no reason that with the right help this situation cant change.

[Freshstart16]

Thank you for the advice everyone - This behaviour with them happens a fair bit. But it is not all the time. we never give them food or treats to eat when we are not around because they will fight over them.

They will occasionally play with each other and they will sometimes both play with the cat at the same time - one at each end

Its not all bad but yeah this behaviour is bull***t, when they do fight, it has never been long enough to cause serious injuries, they have never drawn blood (thank god) They used to fight ALOT more before they were desexed, I wasn't around though but this is what I have been told by my partner.

[Nekhbet]

for the interim, and remember this is NOT a long term solution but a temporary management situation.

Crates - rotate the dogs or if you see they are not happy, one is cranky, food is involved etc put them away! Always better safe then sorry that they are separated in the mean time

[corvus]

I would also be considering whether one dog should be rehomed. Not because it's the only way by any means, but because it sounds like it would be best for poor Dog 2. For that matter, it may well be quite upsetting to Dog 1 to have you trying to change the rules as well. If I were going to do it, I'd be thinking very hard about exactly how I was going to go about it. I would guess it's going to be hard to change this relationships without a very comprehensive plan that you know you can be very consistent with. Every single time Dog 1 gets to push around Dog 2 it's going to reinforce the pushy behaviour. You have to be able to stop it before it starts every time or find a punishment that is instant and strong enough to stop the behaviour in its tracks. But you would have to be careful that Dog 1 doesn't associate punishments with Dog 2, because that could create even more tension. I think if you go the punishment route you should get a professional to help. Your timing really has to be very good. My guess is one reason why the timeouts aren't working is because they aren't instant enough.

I would instead try to concentrate on rewarding behaviour from Dog1 that is not pushy when Dog 2 is around. You say they are not always like this, so surely there are times when they are reasonably harmonious? Not rewarding that behaviour is missed opporunitities IMO. My little guy can get a bit pushy. I cue downs and reward him while I'm rewarding the other dog. We can all get along. It has seemed to help. He needs fewer down cues and more often offers a down without a cue when he wants in on the loving.

Having said that, my last dog was much more possessive and I never did figure out how to stop it. I was consistent with punishments, but not with rewards. In the end I had the most success with giving her more one-on-one time. She was old, though, and I think often didn't even know why she was snarking towards the end. My other dog need only walk past her to cop it. She was almost blind and deaf, so who knows. I sent my younger dog away on holidays with my parents for my old girl's last days. Best thing I did for both of them. Kivi was noticeably relieved when the poor old girl was no longer around to torment him.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

It is not good for dogs to live like this at all.

[jensgreys]

Nine years old is way too old to be rehoming either of these dogs. But dog 1 needs to learn who is the boss in the house and it's shouldn't be him it should be a human. Five min time out isn't anywhere near long enough imo, put out in the yard for 1/2hr everytime dog 1 acts up. If you find time out doesn't work keep a squirt bottle with water in it and squirt dog 1 every time he acts up and see if that works.

We have 6 large breed dogs all living harmonously in our house but none of them are the boss, us humans are and if there happens to be a grumble from 1 dog to another a loud arrhhh from us and that's the end of it.

[webby]

While a lot of people dissagree with Ceasar Milans methods i think he has quite a few simple ways of asserting you dominance without actually having to touch the dog which might be able to help you and your partner. Something as simple as making my dog walk down the stairs and out the gate behind me made an immediate and massive difference to my household

[Souff]

negative ninnies on here aren't we?

Juat a tad, it has been 'that' sort of week.

I tend to think of the submissive dog as the beaten wife and while efforts can be made to change the behaviours, when the owners are not around I think I know who is again going to be playing the bully.

For me, the original post didn't hold a lot of promise of long term change happening. Good to see that you feel more optimistic.

Souff

[Freshstart16]

Thanks again for the advice, Rehoming either of them isnt an option, I will do more to try and curb Tug's bully like behaviour. As I said I cant afford a behaviour expert, I am unemployed due to mental health issues. It is sad to see Leroy get bullied and Tug is going to be brought down a peg a or two.

I have just had enough and so far tonight they have been good