Working Border Collies

[Vickie]

My longgggg legged - short coated show border collie.

wow, he does have long legs & a shortish coat. Did you breed him? Are the others from his litter similar in appearance?

I have seen a few young dogs around agility lately with similar appearance, maybe they are related.

Will be interesting to see his progeny. Has he been bred yet?

Edited December 23, 2010 by Vickie

[shortstep]

No I am older then that. The UK KC BC standard wasn't actually in place.

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials.

http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg

I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials.

Edited December 23, 2010 by shortstep

[shortstep]

MULTI Best In Show winning GR CH Benshiva Dot Com

A very moderately coated Border Collie that did extremely well in the show ring until he retired 2 years ago. This is him in almost full coat.

Lovely dog! How tall is he?

[JulesP]

No I am older then that. The UK KC BC standard wasn't actually in place.

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials.

http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg

I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials.

Yes more like that one. Not quite that old though! Did the 'One Man & his Dog' TV show ever get played here?

[dasha]

I have a working bred border collie that is classically marked. The only one marked like that in the litter. The other were white or tri. She has no KC breeding in her at all. Only NZ, Uk and australian working lines. Medium coat. In summer is quite sparse with slight feathers and tail. In winter looks like a medium coated dog.

She has some of the breeding in the OP.

Have also had well bred short haired, patchwork looking borders with a mixture of ear sets. All pedigreed working dogs but would not meet the criteria of a KC border collie.

Seems there is, like kelpies, a bench variety and working variety which to me is dissappointing to see a beautifully designed working animal, redesigned to meet a criteria on paper that looks "like a perfect specimen of an 'ideal' dog" rather than taking into account any of the working traits that stockmen/farmers have spent years and generations trying to improve

Edited December 23, 2010 by dasha

[kelpiechick]

Can't say I am a fan of Mirk's look. Sorry Shortstep. Looks too much like a Kelpie of me, which is fine if you are a Kelpie.

Not to mention the fact that the predominant breed used to create the kelpie was in fact border collie

Not according to Tony Parsons in his new kelpie book.

Although kelpies definitely came from Scottish collies originally, Parsons stresses that these were not the same strain of collie as the Border Collie. It is widely accepted that the kelpie originated from Rutherford strain dogs imported from Scotland, which Parsons describes as ' short-coated, prick eared dogs, mostly black and tan in colour and therefore quite different from the black and white and black, tan and white Collies of the border counties' - ancestors of today's BC's.

Guess that's not to say that there hasn't been some 'collie crossing' in the UK at some stage to develop today's lines but that would probably be the subject of a BC book, not a kelpie one - something that I'd be interested in if someone can recommend a good one since I now own a BC as well as kelpies.

Thanks for explaining the registration Shortstep.

Jules, your description of the BC that I fancied as looking too kelpie like made me laugh - are you insinuating that I am only attracted to it as it resembles a kelpie ? You're probably right.

To the OP - hope you enjoy your new pup as much as I enjoy my girl !

[Vickie]

Here you go Dasha Some pics of your (and one of my favourite!) Border Collie

Edited December 23, 2010 by Vickie

[Vickie]

Just found this one too. I love it, because I remember her casting through 2 fences and & via the horse when I took it.

[shortstep]

Here you go Dasha Some pics of your (and one of my favourite!) Border Collie

Nice looking dog and very stylish in her work!

[JulesP]

Jules, your description of the BC that I fancied as looking too kelpie like made me laugh - are you insinuating that I am only attracted to it as it resembles a kelpie ? You're probably right.

I did laugh that you liked him I found other pics of him showing more feathering then the pics shortstep put up.

[shortstep]

No I am older then that. The UK KC BC standard wasn't actually in place.

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials.

http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg

I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials.

Yes more like that one. Not quite that old though! Did the 'One Man & his Dog' TV show ever get played here?

Go back and look at all the pics of the Uk dogs and web sites of the OZ working dogs again.

This dog is the only one you can not see it's body, so structure was not something that influenced your idea this was the correct way the dogs looked when you were a kid.

They all had pricked ears, so that was not what did it.

They all had pretty much the same markings, nothing out of the ordinary.

But there was one thing this dog had that the other dogs did not have. I believe this is why you think this is like the dogs in your memory, it is a very full rough coated. Where as all the dogs in OZ and and all the dogs I showed you from the UK were smooth coated, and none of them looked right to you. Put a rough coat on the same dog and you would have thought it looked right.

I assure you that the working dogs in Australia do not look any different from the working dogs in the UK or the working dogs in the US or Canada. There really is truth to the saying that form follows function and this is a good example of that.

However almost all working border collies in OZ will have smooth or at least not a lot of coat. Where as in the UK working dogs you can and will see all types of coat. to suit the work or handlers ideas. BTW snow binds to long hair and can cause problems. Which explains why one of the smooth coated dogs I showed was from a very snowy part of Scotland.

I think in your minds eye you love the roughs so that is all you remember seeing from your childhood, the pretty long coat flowing in the breeze. That however does not mean that all the dog in the UK had rough coats. About 50% are smooth coated and have been so as long as they have taken photos or done drawings of the breed.

Edited December 23, 2010 by shortstep

[dasha]

Thanks Vickie, was trying to add some myself but for some reason cannot.GRRR

I love looking at her pics and am glad you do too.

Thanks Shortstep, a lot of people comment on her at trials which is nice.

[Vickie]

[dasha]

Lucky she's got that one covered

[shortstep]

Is her name Clinta, does she get a twinkle in her eye and say with a grin 'Go ahead make my day?'

Sure looks that way to me. LOL

[Guest bigdogg]

Seems there is, like kelpies, a bench variety and working variety which to me is dissappointing to see a beautifully designed working animal, redesigned to meet a criteria on paper that looks "like a perfect specimen of an 'ideal' dog" rather than taking into account any of the working traits that stockmen/farmers have spent years and generations trying to improve

Totally agree..

Im happy this pup is coming from good Working lines..

[JulesP]

No I am older then that. The UK KC BC standard wasn't actually in place.

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials.

http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg

I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials.

Yes more like that one. Not quite that old though! Did the 'One Man & his Dog' TV show ever get played here?

Go back and look at all the pics of the Uk dogs and web sites of the OZ working dogs again.

This dog is the only one you can not see it's body, so structure was not something that influenced your idea this was the correct way the dogs looked when you were a kid.

They all had pricked ears, so that was not what did it.

They all had pretty much the same markings, nothing out of the ordinary.

But there was one thing this dog had that the other dogs did not have. I believe this is why you think this is like the dogs in your memory, it is a very full rough coated. Where as all the dogs in OZ and and all the dogs I showed you from the UK were smooth coated, and none of them looked right to you. Put a rough coat on the same dog and you would have thought it looked right.

I assure you that the working dogs in Australia do not look any different from the working dogs in the UK or the working dogs in the US or Canada. There really is truth to the saying that form follows function and this is a good example of that.

However almost all working border collies in OZ will have smooth or at least not a lot of coat. Where as in the UK working dogs you can and will see all types of coat. to suit the work or handlers ideas. BTW snow binds to long hair and can cause problems. Which explains why one of the smooth coated dogs I showed was from a very snowy part of Scotland.

I think in your minds eye you love the roughs so that is all you remember seeing from your childhood, the pretty long coat flowing in the breeze. That however does not mean that all the dog in the UK had rough coats. About 50% are smooth coated and have been so as long as they have taken photos or done drawings of the breed.

I really should have known better then to reply to you.

No it was not just the coat. Not all the dogs had pricked ears. I've all ready said that they didn't have a big thick coat like they do now. It is actually a certain shape the stands out in my mind.

I hope you are better with dogs then you are with people.

[Vickie]

Lucky she's got that one covered

that's of the many things I like about her, she doesn't go looking for trouble, but is perfectly capable of dealing with it when it comes along. I should imagine that is a really valuable natural trait in a dog that you need to be able to trust to do a job and something good breeders would aspire to produce.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Vickie

[Vickie]

Im happy this pup is coming from good Working lines..

I hope you post pics & updates as you start to train your pup

[shortstep]

I hope you are better with dogs then you are with people.

You know that was not very nice at all. I have not said one rude thing to you and have been very nice. Really Jules I do not care what you believe.

But I do want others reading this to know that the working dogs in Australia are not freaks, they are not unrecognizable from their UK brothers. They are well worth a look at if anyone is thinking of getting a working dog or thinking of importing new bloodlines to other places in the world.

So on this note I suggest we leave it at that, unless you want to comment any more on the Australian working dogs as in comparison to ISDS dogs from trials you saw as a child.