Sister's Destructive Pup

[Monah]

I have to agree too.

Poor dog. they have no idea.

I 'could' have easily had the same problems with a few dogs and I've never punished a dog.

there's such a thing as common sense.

If something happens once... prevent it from happening agaain, chewed shoes? put them up high or out of reach. chewed pump? build something dog proof around it. etc etc. washing torn off the line? dont leave it out for the dog to play with, work out another time etc. or work around it. ;)

I'm sorry for sounding harsh, this is almost the top of my all time (*^%$#$%^(*_)_)) moments.

Bit of training, positive reinforcement and supervision and preventative measures would do the trick. THe dog has already learnt that these behaviours bring enjoyment. Prevent it in the first place. Dragging the dog to the object and punishing it :D :D

[Staycalm]

Just keep in mind please that I am not prepared to write reams and reams about the situation. You can't judge whether they are good dog owners from the little I've written, especially as you've never met the dog or the family. Yes, I think they did not act appropriately when the dog started destroying things and now have to rethink their approach.

Is there anyone making these judgments who has always had the perfect solution to everything? I would imagine not.

My sister needs advice on practical ways of keeping the dog's destructiveness to a minimum, not being told she should rehome. Yes I am sure they have thought about what life was like before they got this puppy and wonder whether it was such a great idea. I have thought that many times with my own child but that doesn't mean I would give her away (well not today anyway!)

She has all the animals because she loves them and enjoys taking care of them. She's had many of her animals for 10+ years. She's not into giving them away when it all becomes too hard and they are all well looked after. If I can make a few practical, workable suggestions I am sure she will do her best to implement them. She's just never struck this issues to such a great extent. I am sure you've all had a dog that has behaviours that has given you major frustration...

I am interested in the toys that will keep him occupied for a while. Will recommend the frozen blocks, etc. Any tips on what to put in them and how to use them to gain maximum attention from the dog?

[Golden Rules]

I get the impression the dog/puppy isn't exercised at all and they rely on their acerage and the dog to self exercise.

I have a very drivey almost 6 month old puppy who has been left inside with free reign of the house all day with another dog for the past 4 weeks while I am at work. No damage done ever. But my dogs get exercised every morning and it's a pretty simple solution.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Golden Rules

[wuffles]

You asked for suggestions and that's what people have given you

This site has some good suggestions: http://www.urbandogz.com.au/BOREDOM%20BUSTERS%20v2.pdf (except the bit about sultanas - don't feed those!!!)

I spend a good 10 minutes and night and another 10 in the morning preparing 'enrichment' for my dogs during the day... cleaning, refilling and freezing their Kongs... rotating toys... cleaning up cardboard or other things I've given them to destroy... scattering their kibble... filling their treat toys.

Edited January 26, 2011 by wuffles

[Staycalm]

You asked for suggestions and that's what people have given you :D

This site has some good suggestions: http://www.urbandogz.com.au/BOREDOM%20BUSTERS%20v2.pdf

I spend a good 10 minutes and night and another 10 in the morning preparing 'enrichment' for my dogs during the day... cleaning, refilling and freezing their Kongs... rotating toys... cleaning up cardboard or other things I've given them to destroy... scattering their kibble... filling their treat toys.

I know wuffles - just trying to explain to a couple of others that rehoming is not really the issue here. Neither is there some sort of doggy torture happening. There has been a recognition that their first, rather old fashioned, approach to the problem has not worked and now we have moved on to how my sister can improve things. Some good practical suggestions are what's needed and I have been recording these and passing them on.

Thanks for your suggestions. They are the sort of things that will help.

ETA The adoption wasn't an impulse. He was chosen after a lot of debate and my sister wanted a large breed rescue pup. She's already had to deal with his front legs bowing and at first they thought he'd have to be put down. Some careful feeding and lots of specialist advice have seen him recover fully.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Staycalm

[poodlefan]

Staycalm:

Is there anyone making these judgments who has always had the perfect solution to everything? I would imagine not.

I agree. However most of the posters know better than to blame an bored adolescent pup for finding its own amusement. When your sister looks to her management of the dog for the problem, she'll no doubt find the answers as well.

The solutions have been given. Provide the dog with a safe fenced run, give it some stimulating toys, train it and exercise it.

Your sister may not want to give the dog away but from what you've said, her OH might take the decision out of her hands. All I can say is they'd better do something before the dog graduates to roaming or stock chasing.

If they're calling the dog and then punishing it for acts that occured some time before then I'd say they've got the recall they trained.

Edited January 26, 2011 by poodlefan

[Bubitty]

My suggestion (and I swear by this since I raised a crazy active puppy with a destruction history of 6 tissues only):

Morning:

10 min clicker training

45 min walk/exercise session

10 min clicker training after walk

Make "contraptions" for the dog with paper tubes, paper boxes, fozen plastic cups with yoghurt and fruit in it with peanut butter smeared on the sides, iceblocks with frozen chicken wings in the middle of the block

My dog gets 5 contraptions every mornig and will cry for me to leave work because she sees me prepare these and gets excited!

Plant a dog friendly plant patch for the dog. Bury bones and goodies in it! Pup will have so much fun destructing the patch! Mine did! Everyday she had her little bum sticking out of it as she dwelved in and adjusted her patch!

Leave dog with all these goodies and see if how he copes

After work:

walk/exercise session

clicker training

games of fetch

bit more clicker training after dinner

grooming

I swear by the fact that if a dog is kept occupied and has never learnt bad habits it will never develop them! My puppy used to be so worn out by the time I left for work she never could get up to much mischief! When we came home she was forced into a flurry of activity so didnt have time to wreak havoc then either.

Also would your sister be open to training while she is doing chores etc?

I used to practice stays and "sit on mat" when I was cooking dinner and OH would do same while he was juggling the laundry or vacuuming. We found that if this is drilled into them, they will default to these behaviours when left on their own.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Bub

[Snout Girl]

Sally used to destroy everything on our line (we lost 4 or 5 sets of sheets, I lost 2 or 3 dresses and 3 or 4 pairs of pyjamas )

We then started doubling everything up so nothing was hanging down long on the line.

We then raised the line as high as it would go.

She could no longer get to the washing = things stopped being destroyed.

Then at around a year or so old she lost interest anyway.

We can now leave the line at a normal height and she couldnt give a toss :D

[Monah]

re toys, even having heaps of toys will not prevent the pup finding other things to chew. the pup has no idea that one thing is a 'toy' and another thing is a shoe etc.

The pup needs exercise, training, mental stimulation, human company.

I'm sure your sister is a lovely person who loves her pets.

I've had cattle dogs too and they are a pretty easy 'adult' sort of breed who mature fairly quickly compared with many breeds. she now has a more challenging dog who needs more from her.

This may mean walking the dog daily together with a bit of training and encouragement to do the right thing and could take quite a while.

Toys are great, but they don't prevent behaviours, they assist.

Many dogs wont 'play' with a toy on their own, or once they have had itt for 5 minutes they are onto the next thing...

Other things need to be in place as well.

THe pup sounds like a gorgeous barrel of fun and energy, with a lovely temperament. I really hope they are able to hang on for a couple of years as it will be mature and wonderful by then xxxxx The most difficult time (adult size and puppy brain!!) may yet be to come.

Everyone has great suggestions of how they have coped during this time, I'll just add one. seeing as she has some space, 9we do too). We will have two (or more) people far away from each other and call the dog to each and treat. The dog gets worn out, lots of running, AND learns to COME. if it's not possible to take the dog out for exercise for some reason, this is a great alternative, gets the whole family involved and is great fun too. The dog learns very quickly to come to each person, just say Fred, COME!.. ours have also learnt 'off you go!!' to go to the next person. They could extend it to getting the pup to sit in front of them when he comes.... or anything else. :D IT's great for when you dont have a lot of time and wears them out more than a slow walk.

[Staycalm]

Thanks Monah. I'm aware that toys aren't the only solution but I figure that one part of his mischief is the chewing and destruction thing so giving him acceptable things for him to spend time on might help.

My sister doesn't work full time and one of her children is still a preschooler so I imagine she's home a fair amount of the time.

Thanks for the treat/recall idea. That's the sort of thing that would definitely work.

ETA I also want it recognised that my sister asked me to research for training advice. They have already recognised they have not done it right and want to change their approach and improve the situation by working at it.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Staycalm

[dancinbcs]

A further suggestion that helped me cope with the two destruco dogs I owned over the years. Have a box of cheap dog toys he can destroy in an accessable spot and train the dog to go there when he feels the need to destroy things. They need to praise like mad every time he picks one of his toys and use a growl or Aarrrhh noise when he even looks like touching anything that isn't his. For this to work they need to keep everything they don't want destroyed away from him when they aren't watching him, then give him access when they are watching, until he gets the idea what is and isn't permitted.

Your sister may have coped fine with less destructive dogs in the past but every puppy is different and some are just born much more destructive than others, even within the same breed. Every time you take on a new puppy you need to be prepared for this possibility. With a pure bred puppy from an experienced breeder, the breeder will know which puppies are going to be more active and destructive by 8 weeks, but with a rescue it is always going to be a lucky dip. You can raise puppies giving the same amount of exercise and training, some will never destroy a thing and others will put their teeth into anything in reach. If you get a destructive one you need to make sure he doesn't have access to anything you don't want destroyed. It'd not rocket science.

Oh, and never underestimate just how much damage a dog can do when in destructo mode. This dog has only destroyed minor stuff so far. I know of puppies that have eaten car seats, seat belts and roof linings out of vehicles, leather lounges, electrical equipment, lawn mowers, barbeques, one of a kind prize winning heirloom orchids, mobile phones, prescription glasses, the brake wiring of a caravan and even the entire vinyl flooring from a family room.

Training, toys and exercise can all help but for some dogs confinement is the only safe solution.

[poodlefan]

Thanks Monah. I'm aware that toys aren't the only solution but I figure that one part of his mischief is the chewing and destruction thing so giving him acceptable things for him to spend time on might help.

My sister doesn't work full time and one of her children is still a preschooler so I imagine she's home a fair amount of the time.

Thanks for the treat/recall idea. That's the sort of thing that would definitely work.

ETA I also want it recognised that my sister asked me to research for training advice. They have already recognised they have not done it right and want to change their approach and improve the situation by working at it.

Tell your sister than anything the dog can get its mouth on is a "toy" in its eyes. It won't differentiate between its toys and shoes or anything else.

A shoe box on the verandah, a fence around the pump and the line? Remember if the pup is kept in a run that will increase its requirement for exercise at other times.

[Staycalm]

Thanks dancinbcs. Some excellent suggestions there.

There has already been a lot of picking up and prevention of access to items they don't want him destroying. The washing line has the electric fence around for now and parts of the house yard are already fenced off, separating a lot of the kid's toys, etc. I imagine they have circumvented quite a bit of destruction already.

I think the frustration they have with him has maybe overshadowed their ability to see clearly the cause and effect of their old ways of dealing with him. I am confident they can turn this around. BIL is just not as animal oriented as us and would be finding the behavior quite challenging if he has been used to their older mature dogs. My sister is the animal person and I am sure she will soon see improvement now she can understand what she needs to do.

[Mollie10]

Anouk was one of the naughtiest puppies ever. In many ways she was worse than a baby. I couldn't take my eyes off her for a second.

It is because she is so very smart and she gets bored easily. She also saw stealing things as a way of getting attention.

The way we dealt with this was to

1) remove ANYTHING within reach that she could chew on - shoes, clothes, remote controls, mobile phones - if she can reach it, it was hers.

2) crate her at night

3) Frequent short training and play sessions

4) Ignoring her when she stole something (unless it was really valuable in which case I'd bribe her); and

5) Giving her kongs and other self entertaining toys.

I read once that you can beat a wheaten senseless and s/he won't change the behaviour. Most dogs are people pleasers. If you punish a dog when s/he comes to you, the dog will avoid coming to you. Instead praise the dog for recall and distract from the behaviour you don't want.

Quite frankly I'd say the majority of people get to their wits end with their pup at least once!

[Red Fox]

Any practical tips to protect a pump out hose (whatever that is)?

Errrr yeah, either fence it off or pen the dog so he can't get to it. Same for the clothesline. Pick up the kids toys and shoes and put them away out of the dogs reach.

As has already been said, they have what they've trained -or not trained.

The dog needs more mental and physical stimulation by the sounds of it, if they can't give him that then rehoming shouldn't be out of the question...

[RR-Melbourne]

Hi Stay Calm

I totally understand your sister's frustration and admire your motivation to help with the situation. In reading this I found it amusing since I had similar issues with my beatuiful pup that is the love of my life and now a superbly behaved dog and for his breed, at 20 months now still in his puppy hood.

My dog is a Rhodesian Ridgeback, I was instantly drawn to this pup when I saw the litter, I got him at 8 weeks old. He was the first of the pups to directly come and greet me. I thought great he is the most friendly since he was the first one to come straight to me. I have gone through a huge learning curve and now realise that him coming to me was not a gesture of friendliness but he was the protector of the litter he was coming to greet me as I was an approaching threat, just that he looked cute as a pup and I did not realise that this young pup will eventually be the alpha dog of the litter.

So my Ridgie was on a daily basis growing into a head strong stubborn dog where he would push his way through, think that everything was his to chew on, lay on, eat etc. The tips that others have given here are fabulous however what made a difference with my situation is that after a lot of reading and consulting trainers the penny dropped, I had to change before I could do anything with my dog. I had to establish my leadership and the only way that his behaviour would chage would be through my ability to get through to him.

So some research in leadership will help tremendously and consistency consistency consistency.

The elements of my success - Leadership, Exercise, Discipline (motivational, set the dog up for success, no screaming, absolutely no hitting as leaders are followed through respect not fear) and lots of affection but I use affection as a reward the dog must earn the affection through NILIF.

So your sister and OH might have to change their mind set i.e the dog should commence being an inside dog to be with human contact and learn impulse control about what is his and what he cannot touch. Especially if he is part bull breed he will crave human contatct. Even though she has acreage a lot of walking and training on a lead, not pulling. A lot of training to stay close to you as if he was on a lead. Every moment she has spare needs to be spent with this dog for him to turn around and become a great dog.

He already has a lot of energy and spirit the leadership skills will direct and shape your dog in the best he can become. Sorry about he long post and again I could go into pages as exactly what I did with my dog so just a rougth outline above. I only bothered to write this because you said that giving up the dog was not an option so there is ligth at the end of the tunnel but your sister and OH will need to make the biggest change before they can turn around this young pup. I guarantee once shown how to! he will be yearning to please and put all his energy into trying to please his leaders.

Good luck.

[Monah]

more great posts. Maybe you could write up the most helpful stuff for your sister to try?

I have a book on Portugese water dogs... (lovely breed). on every page is a large piece of advice..

OUT OF SIGHT = IN TROUBLE I think this can be said for many breeds and individual dogs.

You have to realise the worse that can happen, and prevent it. When he is older, things can be more relaxed, for now they may just have to concentrate on the pup a lot more and 'see' things through the pups eyes (ie. what the pup is able to get hold of, do etc.. even if there is an electric fence, waving washing may be too much to resist)..xxx

[Staycalm]

Yep - some very helpful advice has been given.

I've been copying these and other references from the Internet and sending them through as I got them. No response from sister yet but knowing her she will be working through the best approaches and getting set to give them a try.

I think that it's not so much she was ignorant of the destructiveness of puppies, just that the size and type of damage has been more than she's used to with her previous dogs. I have full confidence that she will be able to deal successfully with this. I have seen her work with her horses and she has done wonders with her naughty miniature horse. She is not a thoughtless person, just hadn't quite thought through what her previous approach was really doing.

[Fourjays]

I have plenty of experience with clothesline pulling

The ONLY thing that works 100% is to NEVER give a dog doing this, access whilst he is in the puppy stage. I have stopped 4 dogs from doing this behaviour, plus litters (yes, they start young sometimes ) and helped ppuuy owners with this problem. This is the same for hoses/watering systems etc.

If the dog cannot be fully supervised when allowed around these items, then he needs to kept separate from them. Fence off the clothesline area so he can't get in, same goes for the pump out hose, enclose it some how and only get it out when in use. I have also built a run in the past (and now always have one) to use when I have to go out, or when at work, so that any dogs in this phase, can be locked up safely and comfortably and not get up to mischief when I am not there.

An example of restricting the access to the clothesline - I have a 12 month old pup and he was never allowed access to the clotheline area when there were clothes on it, for the first 9-10 months of his life. He (and some of his littermates) showed interest in the flapping clothes, from around 7 weeks of age, so I put a fence up. I took the fence down when he was about 10 months old and he shows absolutely no interest now. Likewise with hoses - they were always picked up off the ground so he couldn't play with them - and he's never touched one. Can't say the same for my garden dripper system however - there was too much of that to be able to protect it

Kids toys are much harder! One thing I did teach my pup is to 'trade a toy' for something better ( a treat), so if he does pick up a toy now, he always gently carries it over to me to show me. I always preface this with a 'what have you got there, come show me' type thing, in a nice voice, so that he knows he isn't in trouble and therefore is happy to come up to me to hand it over.

Getting updated info from her atm.

He's 9 months old and their biggest issues are with him ripping clothes off the line and chewing the pump-out hose (been replace twice and on it's way to a third...

Any practical tips to protect a pump out hose (whatever that is)?

[Mollie10]

OUT OF SIGHT = IN TROUBLE I think this can be said for many breeds and individual dogs.

This is so true. All puppies should come with this warning....