ruffpup Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I'm really not trying to be combative or difficult about it, I just really hate talking to kids. I find it painful to listen to kids talking. You have misunderstood me(as I think you have the rest of the world) the way you hate is unhealthy, it is quite sad really, as I'm sure at some stage in your life you were a child. What happened dear, what makes you hate the child within? If you don't talk to kids, how are they supposed to learn the right way to approach a dog. Huh? Why and how is it other people's responsibility to teach another person's child how to behave? It seems to be a modern thing, as is letting children demand what they want and giving it to them. Not wanting to talk to children doesn't mean anyone hates the world. I haven't met many dogs over the years, including my own, who'd appreciate a stranger wanting to invade their doggy space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightgrace6 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) When children come up to pat my puppy most parents think she is a chocolate lab (no...) Once I tell them she is a dobermann they sort of scurry away. When I walk my older dobe people cross the street, I guess I'm lucky that I don't have to deal with rude ignorant people because noone wants to pat "the big bad dobes". Its actually kind of sad though having a pup people are scared of patting especially since Effy loves people. You had every right to be mad, the mum must of actually been mad, how was she not the least bit phased after you said your dog was reactive. To me, if I had a child, alarm bells would have been ringing.. Edited April 9, 2011 by nightgrace6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervin Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I'm really not trying to be combative or difficult about it, I just really hate talking to kids. I find it painful to listen to kids talking. You have misunderstood me(as I think you have the rest of the world) the way you hate is unhealthy, it is quite sad really, as I'm sure at some stage in your life you were a child. What happened dear, what makes you hate the child within? If you don't talk to kids, how are they supposed to learn the right way to approach a dog. Huh? Why and how is it other people's responsibility to teach another person's child how to behave? It seems to be a modern thing, as is letting children demand what they want and giving it to them. Not wanting to talk to children doesn't mean anyone hates the world. I haven't met many dogs over the years, including my own, who'd appreciate a stranger wanting to invade their doggy space. It is no ones responsibility to teach other peoples children, but the point I am trying to make is that it does not take much effort to explain to a child after you have blocked it's path to a dog, tell them in a nice way why they should always ask first, just because there parents are ignorant to the fact there is no reason they have too grow up ignorant too. Kid's have long memories, so they might grow up with the memory of the nice lady with the shy dog or the nasty lady with the vicious dog, if you are not willing to take the trouble to try and take the time to change peoples perceptions about dogs stop complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMAK Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 must be a miricle because adults do that to my dogs not just the kiddies, my pair don't look like they are friendly to humans (which they are) because of there colouring is dark it doesn't even stop the adults but i just tell people they are not friendly if they come walking towards me, if they ask to pat my dog/s i allow them becasue they simply to that 5 seconds to ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I have never had a child approach my dogs to pat them without either them or their parents asking if it's okay first. Sometimes they reach down to pat my dogs if they are right there. I guess I'm fortunate in that I have one dog that loves any kind of attention from anyone and I can say "You can pat this one. He likes cuddles." If they want to pat Erik they get "He likes to do it in his own time. Pat Kivi and he'll probably come over soon enough. We let him decide when he wants to say hello." People have always been understanding and co operative. To be fair, sometimes parents want to socialise their kids to dogs. If they don't have dogs then the only thing they can do is ask people that do if it's okay for their kid to pat. I applaud any parent that's making the effort to familiarise their child with dogs and how to behave around them. I can only assume that's why the kids in my area are wonderful and always ask first even when there is no adult around to remind them. They are much better than the adults! I've had people do some pretty weird and rude things to my dogs just out of the blue. Someone once grabbed Erik's muzzle and paw. What the hell?? Recently someone tried to finger bite Erik on the neck Cesar style. Glad he's not stupid enough to let something like that happen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Children constantly pat my dog without checking with me or asking me if its ok, with the full approval of their parents. I guess that is the downside of having a popular breed with a reputation for loving kids! I don't tell them off, but I do speak to the kids (I personally think the adults are a lost cause) and ask them to be gentle and mention that although my dog doesn't mind being patted, some dogs get scared or are not friendly with other people. I've seen parents let their kids and even encourage/order them to go and pat large dogs that are tied up (with no owner present), which I think is an incredibly stupid thing to do, especially when you can tell the kids have more sense than the parents and are rightly, hesitant about doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I personally find that a lot of parents and kids have asked if they can pat my dog and i always say yes as my dog just loves the attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I had a little boy of around 7 or 8 run full pelt up to my staffy for a pat....my dog wouldn't mind at all, but obviously i don't want to encourage kids to do that so I said "Whoa!!! hang on....it's really important to ask before you pat a strangers dog" The kid looked so terrified of me, and started backing away going "nonononono....I don't want to now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 I've also had the situation when an unsupervised child has run up and I haven't had time to stop it (with the parents laughing behind them), and if Sasha pulls back or looks scared, all of a sudden the parents face changes and they rush up and snatch the child away with a horrified, filthy look in my direction. I take offense to that... I didn't ask them to not supervise their kids properly and let them approach us. I'm always surprised, cause Sasha is a very large dog... but she has such a laid back, smiley face that people seem to think that she must be approachable. As I said, I have no issues with people who show us respect, and control their children until they have permission to approach us - and direct their children on the correct way to behave (not come rushing up with arms waving). I always feel awkward when the parents leave it to me to instruct their kids on how to behave (kind of like smacking someone else's child), but if they do most of the work with the child initially, I'm more than happy to just show them how to get the best out of Sasha once they are near her. But I do not like people who do not show us the same respect we give them. I have a responsibility to keep Sasha safe, and those she interacts with safe (which are much more important to me than worrying about educating kids whose parents have no clue)... and I can't do that when people invade our space without the slightest courtesy. Because if something was to happen, it would certainly be my fault - not the person who has pushed themselves at us. And I don't think that's fair when I'm simply trying to walk my dog in peace. It has been interesting to see everyone's views though... Some a bit harsh... Just cause you don't like kids doesn't mean you need therapy LOL. Some people don't like kids, just as some people hate dogs... But if people were more respectful then there would be no issues. Dog owners get such a bad rap sometimes, but there are many times that it's the parents with kids that deserve it (and i love kids AND dogs so I'm not biased ). I also have issue with people with offlead dogs that run at us... they laugh and say, don't worry he/she is friendly... but have no thoughts for how MY dog might feel about it or react to it. Had a SWF barrel across the street from it's house on our walks approx 10 times over a few months... the owners didn't seem too concerned, even though I had a terrible time trying to get Sasha away from this little thing snapping quite aggressively at her legs and feet, and would follow us. Then one day, she'd obviously had enough and growled and snapped (just a warning air snap) at the little dog, the owners were horrified, but needless to say it hasn't happened again - could have been avoided for everyone if they'd just given us the same respect we give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillynix Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 The mother was indeed rude to you about the situation, and I think you handled it well I have 3 children (4, 3 and 1) and if we ever come across a dog in a public area, I am always reminding them not to pat or go get close to a strange dog unless they ask the owner first, because as we all know, not all dogs are kid friendly (and by some posts in this thread, not all adults are kid friendly!). But I also have to agree with a couple of other posters, perhaps in future responding to the child who wants to pat your dog would result in a better outcome? Also, if it is a child asking to pat your dog, please answer the child and not the adult. I hate it when my children ask an adult a question and the adult responds to me and not my children, if the child is old enough to ask a question, they are old enough to understand the answer :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) No the child didn't ask... she was a spoilt little thing that was sulking and demanding to her mother in a whiney tone that she wanted to pat a dog. There was no way I was gonna deal with that. I wouldn't put up with it from my own kids, so I'm certainly not gonna deal with someone else's problem - or even waste my time trying to. ETA - and to be fair, it makes some people feel really awkward telling someone else's child how to behave or kind of instructing them what to do - remember you have entered their space. Hence why they may address you, and not the child. They don't know the child, aren't sure if they will understand (especially if they are small as this girl was - only about 2yo), and aren't sure if telling them how to behave will offend parents. If someone brings a dog into your space, you expect them to do the work to keep the dog appropriately behaved (you would be upset if you had to discipline the dog or tell them how to control their dog) - people with dogs expect the same from people with kids too. Edited April 10, 2011 by Kelly_Louise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Mum never let me pat other dogs that weren't mine. She always used to say it wasn't safe, although i never liked it lol but she never gave in and i guess i really respect other people when i ask to pat there dogs if they say no i reply saying thats okay and i walk away haha i dont take it to heart so i think parents have to teach there kids to ask before demanding to pat someones dog. I was always taught 1. not to pat strange dogs - actually, not to go NEAR strange dogs lol and 2. to NEVER put my face near a dogs face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 When children come up to pat my puppy most parents think she is a chocolate lab (no...) Once I tell them she is a dobermann they sort of scurry away. When I walk my older dobe people cross the street, I guess I'm lucky that I don't have to deal with rude ignorant people because noone wants to pat "the big bad dobes". Its actually kind of sad though having a pup people are scared of patting especially since Effy loves people.You had every right to be mad, the mum must of actually been mad, how was she not the least bit phased after you said your dog was reactive. To me, if I had a child, alarm bells would have been ringing.. I have the same situation with Max and Jen (not so much Jenna) but Max has this way about him that makes people want to leave him alone - I don't know why because he is an EXTREMELYYYY loving dog... not so great with people though - he would NEVER hurt another human or dog for that matter but he does like to bark at people... which normally makes people back off. lol easy peasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 he does like to bark at people... which normally makes people back off. loleasy peasy If only - Sasha never makes a peep when we are outside of home... NEVER. Get her back home though and it's a whole different story!! My problem is the opposite, Sasha looks so calm and lovely and well behaved (which she is until a stranger approaches her LOL) and it gives people a false sense of security I guess. It's when she jumps up quickly to move away with a horrified expression that people generally get the idea. I did have one lovely parent approach me once with a little boy that could barely walk so must have been around 1 year old. She asked permission and held his hand and told him where to pat etc, and I held Sasha and patted her too and she was so gentle. When the little boy got a little bit excited and the Mum could see Sasha was getting a bit nervous, she gently told him that was enough and moved him away, all the while being so nice about it. It's those people that I have all the time in the world for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I feel for you - luckily we don't have the same issues. We had to go stay away for the weekend as we were at a wedding in Stanthorpe. We had 4 offers from people either wanting him to stay at theirs or wanting to house sit and look after him. Our family all love him to go over there's - I'm the one a bit hesitant to let a shedding lab into other's houses. We usually enforce an outside at other peoples rule ourselves. We are quite lucky in that we got Boonie used to being separated from us if other people are over. We'd often have him in 'his' room and put a baby gate up - he can see everything but can't 'annoy' non dog people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 As a mum and an owner of a cuddly looking dog, I totally understand your frustration, KL. It does sound particularly bad form on the part of that mum. But you responded just fine. I find that so many children want to pat Honey, & as she is so good with them, I usually invite them to as soon as I see the interest. I find it a good way to take charge of the situation, it means I can then guide them through it and advise them to always ask before patting any dog. But as I say, she is very good with kids and I trust her to sit calmly for them. My kids are rarely interested in patting other dogs, but if they do want to (after asking permission), I am always right next to them talking them through the right way to behave. They have had dogs since they were toddlers & were taught the rules from day 1. So silly to be clueless about dogs with littlies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 My kids are rarely interested in patting other dogs, but if they do want to (after asking permission), I am always right next to them talking them through the right way to behave. They have had dogs since they were toddlers & were taught the rules from day 1. So silly to be clueless about dogs with littlies. See, if there were more parents like you - I'd have no problems whatsoever I'll take responsibility for my dog, and they can take responsibility for their kids, and everyone is happy!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortfurball Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) I'm really not trying to be combative or difficult about it, I just really hate talking to kids. I find it painful to listen to kids talking. You have misunderstood me(as I think you have the rest of the world) the way you hate is unhealthy, it is quite sad really, as I'm sure at some stage in your life you were a child. What happened dear, what makes you hate the child within? If you don't talk to kids, how are they supposed to learn the right way to approach a dog. Wow, who died and made you the all seeing one? I thought your therapy comment was bad, but this post is incredibly rude and judgmental. You have absolutely no clue about what Fuzzy thinks, so where do you get off suggesting s/he has misunderstood the rest of the world? So many times we use the word 'hate' when what we actually mean is 'don't like'. I have said that I hate kids in the past, but I don't mean that I HATE kids, it's just a way of letting people know that there's no point in persisting in trying to get me to appreciate their wonderful/cute/funny child anecdote. You are in no position to call Fuzzy's attitude unhealthy or sad, and this sentence: "What happened dear, what makes you hate the child within?" is extremely patronising, and it's Fuzzy's business whether s/he chooses to educate other people's children. You ask "How are they supposed to learn?" Perhaps if the parents did their job, the children would know the right way to approach a dog. The mother was indeed rude to you about the situation, and I think you handled it well ;)I have 3 children (4, 3 and 1) and if we ever come across a dog in a public area, I am always reminding them not to pat or go get close to a strange dog unless they ask the owner first, because as we all know, not all dogs are kid friendly (and by some posts in this thread, not all adults are kid friendly!). Well done for being one of the responsible parents, but I have to question your last few comments. But I also have to agree with a couple of other posters, perhaps in future responding to the child who wants to pat your dog would result in a better outcome? I'm sorry but I think that people have the right to respond as they wish, not as everyone else wants them too. Sorry if the best outcome for the education of the child is not at the forefront of my mind. As a dog owner, my only responsibility and concern is my dog, and making sure my dog is happy, comfortable and not placed in a position where he/she might do damage to someone. Ok Ella would probably only lick a child, but I don't want her to ever be scared by a fast approaching, badly behaved child and change to a timid dog that may snap. Kuges was approached full pelt by a toddler when he was about 18 months old and when the child flung both arms around his neck he delighted the child (and me) by licking him from chin to forehead! The horrified parent was not so delighted! The toddler was too quick for me, I'd had little experience with children and didn't know they could move so fast nor could judge his intentions so just as well Kuges handled it well. However, fast forward 5 years after him being tormented by a neighbour's children and there may have been a VERY different outcome. Thankfully by then I was better prepared, but in a worst case scenario it could have been quite nasty, so IMO the child should have been a) taught by his parents and b) under parental control. It was at an animal expo, there were dogs everywhere, and Kuges was 40 kilos! No wonder the parent nearly went white when they saw what their child was up to. Also, if it is a child asking to pat your dog, please answer the child and not the adult. I hate it when my children ask an adult a question and the adult responds to me and not my children, if the child is old enough to ask a question, they are old enough to understand the answer This is not a fair ask from a stranger who may not like or understand children. I don't have kids. I don't even know at what age they begin to walk or talk, let alone at what age they understand. We 'non-child people' don't know that if a child is old enough to ask, it's old enough to understand. I can see this scenario going horribly wrong, with the 'but WHY?' response coming out, and all this going on with the child a mere lunge away from the dog's space, or the child perhaps understanding part of the answer, but not all, because I have used words it has not yet learned. Just because a child can ask "Can I pat the doggie?" does NOT indicate that it will understand all the implications of your "No, he's scared of people he doesn't know" To me, this says "He might bite if you do" but the child won't necessarily be old enough to make the connection between 'scared' and 'bite' and I am in no position to judge the development level of your child or anyone else's. Having said that, I did usually address the child, whilst body blocking and glancing at the parent to make sure they were listening and would interpret if necessary, and drag their child out of reach the second they got the implication that it may have ended in a snap if pushed. Kuges was actually fine so long as the children were calm, but I have seen children get overexcited in a millisecond so I preferred not to let them pat him just in case they unaccountably started waving their arms around and yelling. With Ella, if we're approached the right way I'll encourage interaction with children, because she likes them, but if I can't be bothered, I can't be bothered, sorry parents - it's kinda like non-dog people. I did have one lovely parent approach me once with a little boy that could barely walk so must have been around 1 year old. She asked permission and held his hand and told him where to pat etc, and I held Sasha and patted her too and she was so gentle. When the little boy got a little bit excited and the Mum could see Sasha was getting a bit nervous, she gently told him that was enough and moved him away, all the while being so nice about it. It's those people that I have all the time in the world for. If only they were all like that! I think you handled the situation just fine, and were completely entitled to your rant! As you said before, show the same respect we give them, and everyone is happy. Edited for clarity Edited April 11, 2011 by hortfurball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hello, I'm new, have been reading for a while but this is my first post and I just had to comment on this one:) I have 3 kids, 5, 6 and 7. We frequent a popular off lead beach near us, and my kids know that they DO NOT approach dogs without owners permission, It's just common sense.....I find that if the owner feels the kids can pat the dog they will often let you know first, something like 'you can pat fluffy if you want' then I say its ok. Poor form on this parents part I think, as if you'd encourage a small child to move towards 2 dogs that were obviously otherwise engaged in a play fight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Poor form on this parents part I think, as if you'd encourage a small child to move towards 2 dogs that were obviously otherwise engaged in a play fight.... Yes, that was the worst part - especially when we'd deliberately gone to a secluded, out of the way area. If we'd been on the path just stopping to chat I'd have been way more tolerant!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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