stormie Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm not talking about what they have or havent done in the past. I'm talking about the current proposals Which are to do with animal cruelty and ways to fix it. So why do they only have proposals now? IF they've known about the issue for 'years', then these proposals shouldn't be current, they should have been done when the issue was first uncovered and then implemented. If they've known about it for years and only just got some proposals happening now, who's to say it's not going to take another few years for them to make changes? How many innocent animals are allowed to suffer until changes are made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Yes I've seen it and I see nothing there that has any teeth behind it, and certainly no agreement that the Indonesians will abide by it. the link I posted in the other thread suggests that the indonesians probably don't care if we supply them or not anyway so I don't see them agreeing to our terms for a couple of years before they kick us out anyway. If they want our beef they need to provide some surety that our conditions will be met, if it happens great that's the best outcome if it doesn't well nothing was ever going to change anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 How many innocent animals are allowed to suffer until changes are made? 100,000 Brians now that the Australians are out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 if it happens great that's the best outcome if it doesn't well nothing was ever going to change anyway. I see your point woof, I just dont think it's been well handled, especially having an idea of how Indonesians react to ultimatums. I firmly believe we had a better chance of making changes by staying in there. And the whole stun gun issue isnt coming from the moslems, it's coming from their Govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) How many innocent animals are allowed to suffer until changes are made? 100,000 Brians now that the Australians are out of there. And say it takes 2 years for conditions to change, that's over 1 million that will suffer. edited cause I suck at maths Edited June 8, 2011 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 A hell of a lot more than that are going to suffer if the Indos stick to their plan of a self sufficient industry within 3 and the Aussies arent in there making the proposed changes in that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 if it happens great that's the best outcome if it doesn't well nothing was ever going to change anyway. I see your point woof, I just dont think it's been well handled, especially having an idea of how Indonesians react to ultimatums. I firmly believe we had a better chance of making changes by staying in there. And the whole stun gun issue isnt coming from the moslems, it's coming from their Govt. I have to disagree I doubt we had a better chance regardless, the live export industry was put on notice years ago with the first reports, it was only a matter of time before it came to a head and since the Indonesians are giving no guarantees about how and where our cattle will be slaughtered it's no surprise that a stalemate has resulted. We aren't in a position to force any concessions out of them while we are supplying cattle to them and if they don't want our cattle badly enough to abide by basic welfare outcomes then I don't really think there's much we could have done. It's not like we want them to get down and beg for forgiveness we just want them to treat cattle humaely it's not that difficult, if they go elsewhere we can't control that either all we can control is where our own cattle go, if we send them to indonesia without getting any concessions about welfare then we haven't done anything useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What has really peed me off is that Ludwig knew about this months ago so why didnt he follow it up rather than screw the industry. What a twit. All of this screaming about the Australian tax payer supplying equipment and training. We'll be paying a hell of a lot more subsidising bankrupt farmers while losing half our industry now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Don't panic Raz we still live export to heaps of other countries, at least for now. From what I can tell there is a huge push to get abattoirs up north up and running again which could be a part of the plan too, far better long term solution than trying to convince other countries to slaughter meat humanely when they have no reason and no inclination to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm not in a panic, woofy. I'm just really angry about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatrinaM Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Northern producers have been pushing for years to process our cattle here rather than ship them overseas - not just from a welfare point of view but becasue it makes bussiness sense to value add. Sadly 6 months of bans takes most into the wet season meaning a good 10 or 12 months without income. Producers have been let down by everyone, so sad that so many cattle here will suffer now and so will so many families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Producers have been let down by everyone, so sad that so many cattle here will suffer now and so will so many families. Yep. The animal libbers really shot themselves in the foot on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I've quite a lot of sympathy for your pov raz, but I think it's the industry leaders that need hauling over the coals on this one. You don't have to be an animal liber to recognise how horrendous what has been going on is, and I am glad they have put the spotlight on it - and if industry has been taking steps to fix it, they have been too little, too slow, and even perverse. It's a burning platform issue now - and industry are the ones who let it get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks Diva and yep, I understand your pov as well and agree with it. I'm just really bloody angry this wasnt sorted earlier. I've seen animals killed in Indo and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to suddenly work our that this sort of stuff happens. Ofcourse they all knew it was going on but for Ludwig to suddenly turn around and screw the farmers and our ability to make changes after sitting on this for months is bloody disgusting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 That's the case with pretty much any animal welfare issue really, most people in most industries know what's going on and don't like it but nothing is ever done until it looks like it might cost someone votes. IMO animal welfare should be right up there with health and education in terms of funding and regulation because it's not until something like this happens that people start to realize just how important it is for a huge amount of industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 but nothing is ever done until it looks like it might cost someone votes. Yep Woofy. That's what this is all about. Flippin votes. In the meantime the poor bloody farmers and the Indonesians and the tax payers will suffer for the slack bloody behaviour of the people in charge who didnt try to fix the bloody problem to start with. Whatever takes the attention off the carbon tax issue, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 For those who arent surfing between the two threads. A little bit of light reading in regards to the Australian Meat exports. Nothing to do with the cruelty side of the subject but more to do with the economic side of the story. http://www.liveexportshame.com/docs/Economic%20Report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatrinaM Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Ummmm do you notice who the author of your report represents? I would hold this with the same weight as you would hold a pro live export one from Livecorp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Ummmm do you notice who the author of your report represents? I would hold this with the same weight as you would hold a pro live export one from Livecorp. You can hold this however you like KM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traciemc Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 There should be a total and permanent ban on all live animal exports to Asia and the Middle East. Their treatment of animals is totally unacceptable, whether it is done under the guise of primitive religious beliefs or just plain ignorance, laziness or stupidity. So they won't have fresh meat for Ramadan? Boo hoo, starve. The Indonesians don't like being told what to do? How about we immediately cease the $300 million dollars in foreign aid we give them annually, and put the money toward animal welfare. Much better spent, in my opinion. It is wrong that our tax dollars go to a country which obviously holds us in such contempt. The industry leaders who were aware of this going on and were complicit in its continuation need to be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now