Entering Your Dog Under It's Breeder

[KK Team]

Hi All, especially the Show Secretaries in NSW.

Would like to pose a question to you. Are you allowed to enter a dog in a Specialty if the judge is a co-breeder of that dog in question?

I have contacted Dogs NSW and they have referred me to The Rules and Regulations http://dogsnsw.org.au/members/member-information/regulations.html They said refer to 4.3 of judges. Extract Below.

It mentions restrictions if the dog is directly or indirectly owned by the judg or if the judge has handled the dog within 6 months etc, but I cannot find anywhere it explicitly states that you cannot enter a dog under a judge who bred it.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

regards

KK Team

4.3 (a) A Judge shall not:-

(i) judge an exhibit which he directly or indirectly owns or leases

alone or jointly with another;

(ii) act as a handler of an exhibit or exhibit a dog at a Show at which

he officiates as a Judge, provided that a Judge shall not be in

breach of this regulation if he shall be appointed to judge Junior

Showmanship, or Handler Classes, or Gundog Working Tests.

(6/98)

(iii) judge an exhibit which, during the previous six (6) months, has

been used at stud over a bitch which he directly or indirectly

owns or leases alone or jointly with another Member or which,

during that period, has been mated to a dog which he directly or

indirectly owns or leases alone or jointly with another Member.

(6/03)

(iv) judge an exhibit which, during the previous 6 months, has been

handled by him or his spouse, his children, parents, brothers,

sisters, their children, the parents of his spouse, their children, or

grandchildren, or members who are members of his household, or

in any case one or more of them. (9/02), (6/03)

(v) judge an exhibit exhibited or handled contrary to Show

Regulation 12.18. (6/03)

(vi) act as a handler of an exhibit or exhibit a dog in the same Class at

an Agility Trial at which he/she officiates as a Judge. (5/06)

(b) An exhibit shall be deemed to be owned by or to be leased to a Judge if it

is an exhibit in which, at any time during the previous six (6) months, he

or his spouse, his children, parents, brothers, sisters, or their children or

the parents of his spouse, their children or grand children, or Members

who are members of his household, or in any case any one or more of

them, have any interest. (6/90), (9/02)

© An exhibit causing or likely to cause a contravention of this Regulation

shall be disqualified with effect from the commencing day of the Show.

[SparkyTansy]

I suppose the only way you wouldn't be allowed, according to the rules, is if the dog is under 6 months of age, because it'd mean that the judge in question owned/co-owned the dog in the last 6 months.

I think, though, you'll find many people won't enter a dog the judge bred.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Yes.

Is the person also on committee of the speciality club? If so I think you and the club will just have to wear it. If not, then if the rules haven't changed, you can return entries with good reason (think the exhibitor can go to the board tho' if you do) and this is one situation where a secretary/committee might choose to do that.

Note, I don't know what breed you have and I'm not recommending any specific course of action. We need a CYA emoticon!

Edit - I've assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that you are asking because you object. If you are asking because you want to do it, my advice would be that just because you're allowed to do something doesn't make it a great idea. In this situation, I wouldn't, and if I tried it with the breeder of my dogs, she would excuse me anyway.

Edited May 15, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie

[GoldenWei]

Slightly different, what about if your dogs breeder is the judge of general specials but not your group. Knowing that you may not get through to general specials but it is a possibility, would you enter the dog then? I had this situation recently, I have a neuter and his breeder was doing general specials, quite often there is only 1 or 2 neuters in the group, so him going through was a possibility. I didn't enter, but was wondering what others would do in this specific situation.

[Rebanne]

I don't enter under the breeder of my girl. I don't even enter the pups I bred from the bitch under the bitches breeder.

[Rysup]

You can show under the breeder of your dog, so long as they have not owned the dog for over 6 months. Whether you would choose to do so willingly is another question!

[KK Team]

Hi All.

Thanks for your responses.

I'm not the one in question. I would not enter my dogs under the breeder. I didn't even enter a show where the breeder was judging sweeps and my dog was entered in the group. I think it is morally unethical, but if there are no rules against it, I guess that exhibitor will do as they please.

I think it will be funny if the breeder didn't place that dog.

Thanks

KK Team

[dogsaremyworld]

I agree with the statements above, I would not enter under my breeder, or even at a show she was attending. Too much risk of controversy if my dogs go up, even if there was no reason for it.

I would feel wrong doing it as well, and it puts the breeder of the dogs in an awkward position. Really if you are showing her dogs under her, then she would have to put you up, otherwise what is that saying about her own breeding.

[Aziah]

I think it's a dreadful and terribly inconsiderate position to put a breeder in...

[Dellcara]

I think it's a dreadful and terribly inconsiderate position to put a breeder in...

I agree :)

and if they were judging General Specials I wouldn't enter either.

[Joan of Arc]

Its double edged thing really.

Last year I entered a 7 mth old pup in a show where the owner of her grand sire was judging GS and given the number of entries in her breed I knew she wouldnt make group specials much less GS.... but the club returned my entries - refused them on the grounds that she just might make GS...

However they were inconsistent in their application of this decision and so if a club is going to take a stand then they must be very consistent and thier decisions and rationale must be transparent..

But normally I wouldnt enter under that person even if they had nothing to do with the dogs I was entering ... it might be ok by the rules but probably ethically wrong....

[Dellcara]

Last year I entered a 7 mth old pup in a show where the owner of her grand sire was judging GS and given the number of entries in her breed I knew she wouldnt make group specials much less GS.... but the club returned my entries - refused them on the grounds that she just might make GS...

and what regulation gave them the right to refuse your entry ????

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Last year I entered a 7 mth old pup in a show where the owner of her grand sire was judging GS and given the number of entries in her breed I knew she wouldnt make group specials much less GS.... but the club returned my entries - refused them on the grounds that she just might make GS...

and what regulation gave them the right to refuse your entry ????

Hmm, if Joan of Arc is in QLD I have no idea, but in NSW it's in the DogsNSW Regulations Part 2 Reg 13.4 (vii)

Edited May 16, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Ceilidh]

Just recently someone entered their older bitch under her breeder. The bitch in question had not done much winning, and especially not groups. The judge asked them if he could have a puppy out of her and gave her group. Guess what most people at the show think of his judging and ethics?!?!

I would never do it even though you can.

[toshman]

For the judge it's a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, isn't it. Not a situation I'd care to put a judge in, anyway...

[Ons]

I know my breeder is playing very safe at the moment with this question

She is judging gundogs next Friday

Neither her mum nor I are entering our griffons that she bred on that day although they will be in a different ring.

[SwaY]

I don't think it should be allowed, nor do I think people should do it, even if allowed.

[Rebanne]

I know my breeder is playing very safe at the moment with this question

She is judging gundogs next Friday

Neither her mum nor I are entering our griffons that she bred on that day although they will be in a different ring.

I'm quite happy to enter the same show and have done so as long as there was no chance of meeting up in GS.

[BBYD]

SSM is quite correct in citing DogsNSW Part 2 paragraph 13.4 but exhibitors should be aware of Part 2 regulation 14.1 which gives the show committe the right to refuse or cancel any entry "in any circumstance which it thinks fit". No reason needs to be provided and there is no recourse to DogsNSW.

Edited May 17, 2012 by BBYD

[Joan of Arc]

Last year I entered a 7 mth old pup in a show where the owner of her grand sire was judging GS and given the number of entries in her breed I knew she wouldnt make group specials much less GS.... but the club returned my entries - refused them on the grounds that she just might make GS...

and what regulation gave them the right to refuse your entry ????

Hmm, if Joan of Arc is in QLD I have no idea, but in NSW it's in the DogsNSW Regulations Part 2 Reg 13.4 (vii)

I am in NSW but the show was in Vic....

As for right or wrong ... I couldnt be bothered arguing the toss with them and have just decided that while the show is run but that committee I wont enter again...