For Those That Haven't Gone To Training Recently

[megan_]

Re passing classes, the criteria need to be simple - some clubs want people to pass complex heeling with auto sits in beginners - that is very demotivating, especially if you want to teach it properly.

[Cosmolo]

Thanks Megan- much appreciated. I think it's very important for us to re-evaluate classes regularly so that we can make them better- some things we have tried work well, others not so much. At the moment we will be giving notes on Reliable Recalls week one, Motivation (the sheet is called Underworked and Overpaid) Week two and Who's That (LAT) week three. Do you think that reminder sheets of what was worked on should be in addition to or instead of these? Trying not to give so many notes that they don't get read as i know many people don't love notes as much as i do..!

I might as well post my first draft of content for a Novice class going forward. Feedback welcome- much of it is not set in stone as yet.

Problem Solving Games

Self Control Exercise

Sit

Drop

Release and Marker word

Sit Stay

Loose Lead Walking

Recall (Come)

Send to a bed/ blanket

Owner to greet people approaching without dog jumping or lunging

Dog to Dog Socialisation

Trick- Targeting handlers hand

Trick- High Five

Agility Exercise- Short Tunnel

Agility Exercise- Ground Surfaces

Agility Exercise- single jump

Massage

Edited August 24, 2012 by Cosmolo

[Bundyburger]

Sounds great Tamara. There are things in that list that we still need to work on desperately :laugh: It sounds like there's a lot of variety which is good. I'd definitely attend a class like that, provided the class sizes weren't too large. I'd also have the release word as one of the first things you learn, because I know from experience that trying to remember to use one when you've started training the basics without one is awfully difficult!! As a result I still don't use one and I should

Edited August 24, 2012 by Bundyburger

[Cosmolo]

What's considered 'too large'? Is there such a thing as too small?

[Bundyburger]

Large to me would probably be 8, but I have trained successfully in a group that was about 12, but that was the limit of Bundy's coping ability.

Is there such a thing as too small? Possibly, but i think that would depend on the instructor and the group dynamics I guess.

[Cosmolo]

But do you take into account the number of instructors or is it just about class size? ie- is a class of 12 too big when there are 2 instructors?

[Bundyburger]

But do you take into account the number of instructors or is it just about class size? ie- is a class of 12 too big when there are 2 instructors?

I was talking about classes with one instructor. 12 in a class and 2 instructors isn't too big at all, whereas 12 to 1 means that some people are going to struggle and miss out on help.

[dancinbcs]

I haven't read all the responses and haven't been to a training club in years but used to go to them 4 nights a week. Then show or trial on weekends with up to 4 dogs at a time.

Even then I hardly ever went into a class unless it was for group exercises. My reason for this is that as an experienced trainer and trialler I could not tolerate being stuck in a class with handlers with zero experience. The last class I took a new puppy into, had a guy that kept screaming "NO" at his dog in class and turned mine into a quivering wreck.

The only thing that would have enticed me back was for experienced handlers to be in a separate group, which could be much larger than the beginners who need more one on one time. After all it is mostly about training the handler, not the dog. Short 10 min, scheduled sessions for specific exercises would have been much more helpful than an instructor trying to fill an hour with lots of mundane heeling. Group heeling is actually not something that is required in a trial ring so why teach it at all?

Also, none of the clubs I attended ever bothered to teach the watch command first. Without the dog watching you, you cannot train it. So much more emphasis on handler basics is needed with beginners and a lot more flexible training is needed for those with more experience.

[sandgrubber]

What's considered 'too large'? Is there such a thing as too small?

Too large is any number that means individuals don't get attention and feel their particular needs are met. Some trainers may communicate well enough to handle a dozen or more in a class. Others probably shouldn't go past four. A larger class that allows some time for individual work, or work for smaller groups interested in specific issues might be a useful compromise.

I wouldn't mind lots of work on generic sit/stay/heel if it were usefully integrated into a program that builds toward off-lead work. Most of the training classes I've gone to seem to do sit/stay/heel just cause it's what you do . . . no rationale provided.

I would very much appreciate getting some written notes with exercises, saying why things are taught the way they are, giving references, and explaining where the elementary exercise is going.

I'd love to work with a group trainer who kept a library of DVD's showing other trainers doing the same thing and/or providing slow motion, annotated, detail conscious explanations. Body language is important. Often the trainer says "Watch this" but what you see is from a different angle than what the trainer sees, and may be obscured by viewing angles or other people and dogs . . . and it may happen too fast for you to take it in. Being able to view clearly and review critical points would be very helpful.

Too small? Yes, if you're trying to teach socialization you need a mix of sizes and temperaments. Also, some people learn well by watching and emulating others. Solo classes may eliminate that style of learning.

Edited August 24, 2012 by sandgrubber

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

OMG sign us up for your classes!!!

Edit - I still technically go to training but I'm not sure what to do ATM cos I'm very green and I'm not sure how to do things like focus work, stopping dog from self rewarding etc. the last obed class I attended was our assessment, Scooter 100% shut down, was put next to another dog even though I begged to be put at the end of the row (he's nervous around other dogs) and long story short I had to leave the class to cry my heart out in the car. I've always wanted to do club training but right now I'm failing my dog and don't know how to help him. Half our class failed and I saw another girl starting to cry too... I know I'm overly sensitive but it's hard when you don't know what the next step is.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Panzer Attack!

[pipsqueak]

Thanks Megan- much appreciated. I think it's very important for us to re-evaluate classes regularly so that we can make them better- some things we have tried work well, others not so much. At the moment we will be giving notes on Reliable Recalls week one, Motivation (the sheet is called Underworked and Overpaid) Week two and Who's That (LAT) week three. Do you think that reminder sheets of what was worked on should be in addition to or instead of these? Trying not to give so many notes that they don't get read as i know many people don't love notes as much as i do..!

I might as well post my first draft of content for a Novice class going forward. Feedback welcome- much of it is not set in stone as yet.

Problem Solving Games

Self Control Exercise

Sit

Drop

Release and Marker word

Sit Stay

Loose Lead Walking

Recall (Come)

Send to a bed/ blanket

Owner to greet people approaching without dog jumping or lunging

Dog to Dog Socialisation

Trick- Targeting handlers hand

Trick- High Five

Agility Exercise- Short Tunnel

Agility Exercise- Ground Surfaces

Agility Exercise- single jump

Massage

This isn't a criticism, just thoughts from an owner who considers her dog reactive (overly boisterous!). I agree with whoever said marker & release should be one of the first things taught. If I was looking potentially doing your class (unfortunately wrong state!), the dog-to-dog socialisation would freak me out. Understand that it would really depend on how it was done, but it might be the thing that would stop me from doing your class - I have trouble trusting other people's dogs and their control over their dogs. If it was simply one dog with another at a time only, supervised by yourself, then I'd be okay. If it was multiple dogs, I'd probably freak out. I like the idea of owner/dog to greet people without a dog, provided this is started at a distance, and/or people simply walk past the dog initially. I have lost count of the number of instructors who in class I have asked to simply walk past my dog (no patting), so we can work towards him calmly greeting people, but no, that is way too hard for them!

Apart from that, looks good. Not sure what you mean by self control exercise, but something that I'd probably like to see is teaching people how to teach "leave it".

[Cosmolo]

The dog to dog socialisation doesn't mean any dogs have to 'play' or make contact. I may need to come up with a different term to describe it but unfortunately if i name the exercises we'd do no one would know what the names actually mean. Any alternate words that can easily and generally describe 'working around other dogs' in a controlled manner most welcome.

[Podengo]

Why haven't I gone to training....

Have been going to agility, but not obedience...

Have missed like 6 weeks of obedience because of work/weather cancellations/show cancellations and clashes with agility shows... I swear I will go back one day! Nationals are in October and I need to train! Not tomorrow though as we have agility LOL

[pipsqueak]

The dog to dog socialisation doesn't mean any dogs have to 'play' or make contact. I may need to come up with a different term to describe it but unfortunately if i name the exercises we'd do no one would know what the names actually mean. Any alternate words that can easily and generally describe 'working around other dogs' in a controlled manner most welcome.

Thanks for explaining. I guess that was my (poor) interpretation, since that's what it seems to mean everywhere else that I've been. Perhaps working under distraction? Keeping focus whilst working around other dogs, or just working around other dogs. Just throwing these out there, in case they prompt better ideas from someone else.

[megan_]

I'd call it "working with other fogs around". Most peoPle think socialization is playing. When does the new course start?

[Cosmolo]

I am trying to get it done in time for classes starting in the coming weeks Megan but having been so sick all week i am a bit behind. I don't think it will be difficult incorporating the new exercises so that should be done but promoting and introducing the different class levels might take me a bit longer.

[Cosmolo]

Hey Snook- the exercise i am referring to doesn't specifcally relate to self control with other dogs as there are a range of other things i'd be likely to use for that including a LAT equivalent- this is a good foundation exercise for most training though.

It's a very simple reward manipulation exercise where the dog learns to control their behaviour in order to access the reward of a food or toy being presented by their owner/ handler, held out of their reach. The criteria can either be the offereing of a sit or simply four paws on the ground- meet the criteria= access reward, don't meet criteria= reward removed. No commands, no verbal or physical corrections. Once the concept is understood, the level of distraction is increased duration of the exercise can increase etc.

No idea what's wrong with my pm's- it says 0 messages.

[wuffles]

My club calls our "dog to dog contact" a "controlled greeting". The dogs don't actually have to meet. We also have a "steady for strangers" which may not be the best wording, but that means being under control while another dog walks past a few metres away.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I think you could call the socialisation - dog manners, etiquette and body language reading. Or dog social skills.

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

- I was taking my sister's dog to training, but stopped after several months of persistence as I didn't like the trainers or their methods. They were biased towards certain breeds, couldn't be bothered helping you, were mocking, unwilling to listen to anything, etc.

Also our dogs were snapped at on a number of occasions, lunged at and nearly attacked by out of control dogs, and if they were the favourite breed, nothing was done to control them. I also saw another person's dog have a snap at the favourite breed, and boy did it get in trouble! Just all of that sort of thing, a very clicky group.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough?

I (and my sister) feel that Henry's training is coming along fine at home, we do lots of research, reading, and generally have found out what works best for him. I think this will be the case with my Border Collie pup, too.

Did you not get results from previous training attempts?

We got some results, but as mentioned above, didn't like the training atmosphere.

Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive? Are you simply too busy? Did you find training boring?

No, no and no. I really love training, and was very enthusiastic about going to training club :)

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

If a new group started in our area, then I would give them a go.