megan_ Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) On the contrary, I have answered your question on numerous occasions. Keep you dogs safe & there will be no problems. If they do come under the notice of the authorities? They are your reponsibiliy, you would have failed them. It is your problem. What does "keep your dog safe" mean? Lock it indoors and never let it out? Because that is what keeping your dog safe here means - your dog can be destroyed because it fits a certain type - not because it actually does something bad, roams etc. Your neighbour who doesn't like dogs can ring the council and your dog is seized. The dog does not need to be a pitbull to fit the criteria. If it meant "make sure they behave and are controlled" I would 100% agree - and this applies to ALL breeds. But in Victoria it doesn't mean this. Your dog can be seized just by looking like a certain type, even if the dog has impeccable manners and is owned by a responsible owner. Are you really saying that if Cosmolo walks down the road with her dog on leash, sitting politely when people pass by, accepting pats from overzelous kids while staying in a nice sit etc etc and it is seized that she has failed it? Really? That is the stupid thing with these laws, it encourages owners to hide their dogs. Unsocialised dogs of any breed are a REAL threat to the community. ETA: I suggest you read up on the Victorian laws. You seem to think that if your dog does nothing it is safe. Far from it. Edited October 22, 2012 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 M-sass in some countries pedigree staffords are restricted breeds (Ireland I believe). Staffordshire Bull Terriers aren't a banned breed in Ireland. The Irish Staffordshire bull Terrier, not to be confused with a SBT bred in Ireland, is banned as a pitbull type by the U.K. As is the Amstaff b.t.w. I am reasonablely sure the SBT is banned in Germany, along with the Bull Terrier & the Bull mastif. The concern for these breeds now is Germany is pushing for a common law for the entire E.U. regarding breed restrictions. If successful (unlikely) it would mean the SBT would be banned all E.U countries. I am a little bemused that a veterinarian could simply declare a dog to be an Amstaff. If push came to shove I doubt such an identification would be upheld by a court of law. Such a challenge would be interesting though. An Amstaff without ANKC registration papers as proof of breed is, for all intents & purposes, a pitbull. this link explains a lot http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/9535-english-staffy-vs-irish-staffy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphra Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 M-sass in some countries pedigree staffords are restricted breeds (Ireland I believe). In Ireland there are ten controlled breeds: The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 place controls on 10 breeds of dogs namely the American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Doberman Pinscher; German Shepherd (Alsatian); Rhodesian Ridgeback; Rottweiler; Japanese Akita; Japanese Tosa and to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog).http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/DogControl/ In the UK there are four breeds of banned dogs. It's worth reading the UK legislation (I've put the link at the bottom of the quote). Because this is the outcome of the Coroner's recommendation. Animal control officers can, and do, seize dogs off the street, on the basis of how they look, even if the dog has no history of bad behavioiur and doing nothing other than having a particular appearance. There are no mentions in either legislation of "Irish Staffys". Banned dogs In the UK, it’s against the law to own certain types of dog. These are the: Pit Bull Terrier Japanese Tosa Dogo Argentino Fila Braziliero It’s also against the law to: sell abandon give away breed from a banned dog. Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name. Example If your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier, it may be a banned type. https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs Staffords and other dogs, including pedigreed dogs with papers are restricted in many European countries. Germany has 42 breeds of dog with restrictions placed on them, and bans on " Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and the Bull Terrier." In fact Germany has some of the strictest dog laws and is one of the most dog unfriendly countries in Europe. They had four fatal dog attacks in 2010, although their breed legislation was introduced in 2001. Across Europe there were 15 fatal dog attacks. That is out of a human population of nearly 750 million. I'm fascinated by the constant inclusion of the Fila, Dogo and Tosa in these lists. I can't find any statistics on dog attacks on South America right now, but I'd be interested to see them if anyone has the stats. But the Dogo, Fila and Tosa are rare breeds outside their own countries, so clearly their inclusion in the lists across Australia, the UK and Europe is based on myth rather than any evidence. If anyone is interested in the history of BSL, Karen Delise's book "The Pit Bull Placebo" is available for free download as an ebook from the National Canine Research Council. www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4459054/.html "Irish" staffordshire bull terrier is the U.K. pseudonym for pitbull. Here they hide them as cross staffies or amstaffs without papers or bull mastif x ridgeback...etc, etc, etc. The pic is of a beautiful pure breed Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Which shows why registered pure breed owners are concerned their breeds all being tarred with the one brush. If people don't understand what ''keep you dog safe'' means? They are beyond help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 sorry, but how can Cosmolo keep her dog safe (a dog that she got from a shelter who is very well behaved) if he can be seized and destroyed if she walks him down the street? Again, what do you mean? Never take your dog off your property? What are you ACTUALLY suggesting she do? This is a purebred forum. People advocate purebreeds. However, plenty of us have either owned mutts in the past or own them now - we don't want them PTS because of the way they look. We're not even talking about pitbulls here, or dogs that are even bullbreed crosses. Just mutts that look a certain way (eg broad head) and fit a certain weight and height category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 If people don't understand what ''keep you dog safe'' means? They are beyond help. I have no idea what you mean. But you're right, Victorians are beyond help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 sorry, but how can Cosmolo keep her dog safe (a dog that she got from a shelter who is very well behaved) if he can be seized and destroyed if she walks him down the street? Again, what do you mean? Never take your dog off your property? What are you ACTUALLY suggesting she do? This is a purebred forum. People advocate purebreeds. However, plenty of us have either owned mutts in the past or own them now - we don't want them PTS because of the way they look. We're not even talking about pitbulls here, or dogs that are even bullbreed crosses. Just mutts that look a certain way (eg broad head) and fit a certain weight and height category. The dogs are from a shelter so they are probably already desexed.If not, do it. Build a secure run & shelter in the backyard. Not only to keep the dogs in but to keep any naughty people out. If it means walking the dogs wearing muzzles & restricted collars?...do it. when ever she is off her property, lock the dogs in the run. She would know her neighbours so she would know how to keep them onside. Do as the pure breed owners who value their dogs do. Keep them safe. It aint rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 M-sass in some countries pedigree staffords are restricted breeds (Ireland I believe). In Ireland there are ten controlled breeds: The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 place controls on 10 breeds of dogs namely the American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Doberman Pinscher; German Shepherd (Alsatian); Rhodesian Ridgeback; Rottweiler; Japanese Akita; Japanese Tosa and to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog).http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/DogControl/ In the UK there are four breeds of banned dogs. It's worth reading the UK legislation (I've put the link at the bottom of the quote). Because this is the outcome of the Coroner's recommendation. Animal control officers can, and do, seize dogs off the street, on the basis of how they look, even if the dog has no history of bad behavioiur and doing nothing other than having a particular appearance. There are no mentions in either legislation of "Irish Staffys". Banned dogs In the UK, it’s against the law to own certain types of dog. These are the: Pit Bull Terrier Japanese Tosa Dogo Argentino Fila Braziliero It’s also against the law to: sell abandon give away breed from a banned dog. Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name. Example If your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier, it may be a banned type. https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs Staffords and other dogs, including pedigreed dogs with papers are restricted in many European countries. Germany has 42 breeds of dog with restrictions placed on them, and bans on " Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and the Bull Terrier." In fact Germany has some of the strictest dog laws and is one of the most dog unfriendly countries in Europe. They had four fatal dog attacks in 2010, although their breed legislation was introduced in 2001. Across Europe there were 15 fatal dog attacks. That is out of a human population of nearly 750 million. I'm fascinated by the constant inclusion of the Fila, Dogo and Tosa in these lists. I can't find any statistics on dog attacks on South America right now, but I'd be interested to see them if anyone has the stats. But the Dogo, Fila and Tosa are rare breeds outside their own countries, so clearly their inclusion in the lists across Australia, the UK and Europe is based on myth rather than any evidence. If anyone is interested in the history of BSL, Karen Delise's book "The Pit Bull Placebo" is available for free download as an ebook from the National Canine Research Council. www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ thanks for the link, she has it nailed all right, page 35 for example. "Cuban Bloodhound, Siberian Bloodhound, British Bloodhound—it matters little, for when these breeds left the hands of those looking for a vicious tracking, attack, or guard dog, severe and fatal attacks by these breeds virtually disappeared from newspaper reports. As owners looking for a new intimidation dog turned their attentions in the early 20th century towards the Bulldog and German Shepherd, the Bloodhound population stabilized and Bloodhound ownership largely returned to the true admirers of the breed. This scenario would repeat itself over the next century; as certain breeds became increasingly popular in negative functions, and subsequently more popular with substandard owners, incidents of aggression within the breed would increase. When breed popularity decreases with substandard owners and returns into the hands of more serious enthusiasts, incidents of aggression decrease." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Do as the pure breed owners who value their dogs do. Keep them safe. You're a purebreed dog owner who values your dog, do you do all those things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I value my dogs and they are kept securely (all gates padlocked, 6 ft fence for 30 cm high dog), but not in runs. Bad owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 My dogs are locked inside the house or a secure run when i am not home. On occassion, one of the dogs spends a few hours in the backyard when i'm not here which is double gated so if two gates/ fence would need to fail for my dogs to get out. I will not walk my dogs with muzzles and dangerous dog collars- they have done nothing wrong and it would cause unnecesary stress AND draw attention to them. My neighbours are aware of the dogs and have no issue Despite all of this if i get a new neighbour, walk my dogs and someone sees them and takes exception to them- they can be reported and council can come knocking. How on earth is that fair and how would that mean 'i failed them'? Ridiculous. I kno plenty of pure breed dog owners who don't do all of those things! Especially walk them in muzzles for no apparent reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Do as the pure breed owners who value their dogs do. Keep them safe. You're a purebreed dog owner who values your dog, do you do all those things? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Do as the pure breed owners who value their dogs do. Keep them safe. You're a purebreed dog owner who values your dog, do you do all those things? Absolutely. You walk your dog in a muzzle and restricted collar? What would you do if your neighbours weren't on-side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 My dogs are locked inside the house or a secure run when i am not home. On occassion, one of the dogs spends a few hours in the backyard when i'm not here which is double gated so if two gates/ fence would need to fail for my dogs to get out. I will not walk my dogs with muzzles and dangerous dog collars- they have done nothing wrong and it would cause unnecesary stress AND draw attention to them. My neighbours are aware of the dogs and have no issue Despite all of this if i get a new neighbour, walk my dogs and someone sees them and takes exception to them- they can be reported and council can come knocking. How on earth is that fair and how would that mean 'i failed them'? Ridiculous. I kno plenty of pure breed dog owners who don't do all of those things! Especially walk them in muzzles for no apparent reason. You do what ever you think is appropiate. You are the master of your own destiny. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Do as the pure breed owners who value their dogs do. Keep them safe. You're a purebreed dog owner who values your dog, do you do all those things? Absolutely. You walk your dog in a muzzle and restricted collar? What would you do if your neighbours weren't on-side? I don't need to. Change neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 You are the master of your own destiny. Well now I've heard it all :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I value my dogs and they are kept securely (all gates padlocked, 6 ft fence for 30 cm high dog), but not in runs. Bad owner? Apparently you are a bad owner if you don't have pedigree dogs. At least, that's the (il)logic coming out of Steamboat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 M-sass in some countries pedigree staffords are restricted breeds (Ireland I believe). In Ireland there are ten controlled breeds: The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 place controls on 10 breeds of dogs namely the American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Doberman Pinscher; German Shepherd (Alsatian); Rhodesian Ridgeback; Rottweiler; Japanese Akita; Japanese Tosa and to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog).http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/DogControl/ In the UK there are four breeds of banned dogs. It's worth reading the UK legislation (I've put the link at the bottom of the quote). Because this is the outcome of the Coroner's recommendation. Animal control officers can, and do, seize dogs off the street, on the basis of how they look, even if the dog has no history of bad behavioiur and doing nothing other than having a particular appearance. There are no mentions in either legislation of "Irish Staffys". Banned dogs In the UK, it’s against the law to own certain types of dog. These are the: Pit Bull Terrier Japanese Tosa Dogo Argentino Fila Braziliero It’s also against the law to: sell abandon give away breed from a banned dog. Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like, rather than its breed or name. Example If your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier, it may be a banned type. https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs Staffords and other dogs, including pedigreed dogs with papers are restricted in many European countries. Germany has 42 breeds of dog with restrictions placed on them, and bans on " Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and the Bull Terrier." In fact Germany has some of the strictest dog laws and is one of the most dog unfriendly countries in Europe. They had four fatal dog attacks in 2010, although their breed legislation was introduced in 2001. Across Europe there were 15 fatal dog attacks. That is out of a human population of nearly 750 million. I'm fascinated by the constant inclusion of the Fila, Dogo and Tosa in these lists. I can't find any statistics on dog attacks on South America right now, but I'd be interested to see them if anyone has the stats. But the Dogo, Fila and Tosa are rare breeds outside their own countries, so clearly their inclusion in the lists across Australia, the UK and Europe is based on myth rather than any evidence. If anyone is interested in the history of BSL, Karen Delise's book "The Pit Bull Placebo" is available for free download as an ebook from the National Canine Research Council. www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ The Dogo, Fila & Tosa are all "fighting breeds" Which is why they are banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The Dogo, Fila & Tosa are all "fighting breeds" Which is why they are banned. So was the SBT. Aphra asked about the evidence that suggested they were a danger to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The Dogo, Fila & Tosa are all "fighting breeds" Which is why they are banned. So was the SBT. Aphra asked about the evidence that suggested they were a danger to the public. Wrong again. Facts aren't a biggie here obviously. Why did Aphra askm me? If the dogs are picked up because they suit the ''type'' ask the ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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