TSAR2010 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Hi there I am a new member from Melbourne and German Shepherd Dog owner My dog is almost 3 YO Male-Working Line - BiColor For quite a while I am thinking about finding a bitch for him but again after reading about that on various forums I am a bit unsure... What is good enough to breed? Usually we are very subjective about our dogs.... Regarding Temperament - couldn't find anything wrong,good agility, never scared but not agressive... Ticks all the boxes, but I haven't X Rayed him yet for Hips/Elbows ...I'll do it if I decide to mate him Also, how to find appropriate bitch? I will appreciate if anyone can help me with this Thanks Attached is his Pedigree database link: www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=668962 just copy and paste to your browser or search for SONIVONLAND FRITZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 He's working line so does he have any achievements in Shutzhund or tracking etc? Pedigree doesn't mean you should breed, it's all about what he's accomplished, if he's the best of his line and breed, not only on paper but also on the field. Get his hips x-rayed, even if you don't plan on breeding get them done, it's a good thing to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) I can't provide advice about GSDs, but the questions I would ask first is "why do I want to breed and what do I think I can contribute to the breed?" Once you know the answers to those questions, you have a set of criteria you can use to judge your dogs and decide whether to rule them in or out of a breeding program. For example, my primary goal, above all other goals, is to aim to breed a litter where (barring accident) the dogs are all alive at 14 y/o. This goal requires different selection methods to someone who primarily wants to breed for the Arab hunting market, or for regular BIS wins, or for pure preservation etc. It's not that those goals are separate in an either/or way - I'd like to breed a BIS winner who harks back to the greats of the breed for example too. But you're constantly prioritising and knowing where you want to go helps you prioritise. Edited December 25, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 First stop would be his breeder. Talk to them, talk to the breeder of his parents and even grandparents if you can. If humanly possible get them to see your dog in the flesh, not just photos, so they can get a first hand feel for his temperament and drives. I know nothing about GSDs but a fair bit about breeding dogs for specific working traits (Guide Dogs, a bit different to working GSDs :D ) and honestly without meeting the dog in the flesh I wouldn't be interested in using a working line dog in a working line programme unless it was trained to a high degree and successful in whatever line of "work" I was breeding for - so the next question would be - what is he trained to do and is there any formal competition/trial situation where you can compete/show him off through so others can gauge his worth in his field so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 The correct way to breed dogs is to find a suitable dog for a bitch for each litter, usually not the same one each time but ones who can bring in lines you want and correct things better with each litter. You do not go and look for a bitch for your dog, that is doing things back to front. If you do decide to become a breeder you should buy the best bitch you can get your hands on but when she grows up, your dog may not suit her even if the lines are compatible. It is a huge step to buy in a bitch to breed one litter from your dog. If you keep a daughter to go on with you still cannot use your dog for the next generation. Better to check with the dog's breeder, have all the health tests done, put some working titles on the dog and hope someone else will want to breed from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Personally I think you need to have your dog honestly assessed, is he an outstanding dog, we have many many entire male dogs in this country, what does yours have to offer that makes him worthy of passing on his genes above others? We have many nice dogs but far fewer outstanding ones. You may a buy bitch and when she matures find she is totally unsuitable for HIM, that is what Breeding is about matching two suitable individuals with a view to improving what you have. Keeping in mind that every animals brings with it the genes of past generations that we need to have knowledge of as they will strongly influence your result. The only people who can help you there are those with a sound and deep knowledge of the lines involved. Two lovely and compatible looking animals in the flesh may well be a recipe for disaster genetically. If you are serious about breeding mentors in your Breed will be invaluable. Not every nice dog should be used at stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Something to think about very carefully - always research the market you are producing into. There are many, many German Shepherds abandoned in NSW at least, of all ages. There are 2 German Shep rescues here and they cannot keep up. Perhaps it isn't the same in your State ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) Hi Tsar2010 If you choose to breed and want to register your litter you will need to comply with the following, if you are planning to breed please consider doing this properly. I assume you already have point 1 & 2 in place. 1: You are a financial member of Dogs Vic 2: You have a breeders prefix approved by them ( I dont know the Vic laws but in NSW you apply for a prefix and you must complete an open book course before the prefix is approved.) 3: You male must have hips/elbows and I think they still test for heamophilia 4: Your bitch must have hips/elbows 5: These results will need to be lodged with Dogs Vic before the litter is whelped. I dont know about any other DNA test GSD's need these days. In choosing a brood bitch, conformation, type temperament and all the health tests must line up to your satisfaction. Research the dams whelping history, does she whelp easily, is she from a line a good nurturing mothers. You can have the prettiest girl in the world but if she comes from a crap line of whelpers or she is a poor mother ( two different things genetically) then that is a deal breaker for me. If you are keen on working style GSD's then stick within the Working GSD type - dont mix the two. Also what type of homes do you hope to get for the pups and what are you planning to keep a pup if any. You dont need to answer to anyone else on this one matter but it is important to answer for yourself. Why am I breeding? Have you considered the expense and the nutritional needs for a brood bitch. We breed Labs and it cost me in excess of $2000 per bitch to get a bitch to prepare for breeding with all the DNA testing, hips, elbows & eye test - and that doesnt include feeding her. Are you prepared for the behavioural changes in your male once he is mated. Testosterone will have impact and make him a physically stronger and more assertive dog. This is a best case senario if the bitch whelps well and is a good mum you might cover costs. But if she needs a ceasarian or cant feed and you need to suppliment the mooney begins to add up. My husbands friend mated his backyard Rotti male to his backyard Rotti female ( against my advice) she whelped 12 pups - mum developed mastitis and the pups had to be hand raised so they were bottle fed the whole litter. Because it was an unregistered litter he couldnt get more than $500 per pup. So $500 x 12 sounds ok eh thats $6000. Now considering the vet bill and expenses cost $5867 - these wasnt much love left for that experience. Bitch and dog now both desexed. And lets not talk about the time involved in feeding and raising the litter - do you want to put a monetary value on that?? As to wether you consider your male breed worthy or not I cannot comment, however as has been suggested, please contact your breeder for their appraisal of him atleast. Ask your breeder which lines she would recommend.I have absolutely no issue with people wishing to breed their dogs - the worth of any brood bitch or stud dog is subjective - I just feel people need to have their eyes wide open and consider all the obligations to do it right. If you wish to discuss things further feel free to PM me. Edited December 25, 2012 by Tapua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe001 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 I would ring a few working line breeders (firstly his breeder) and talk to them. Chris from Von Forell would be one on the top of my list. These experienced people would be able to answer your questions, critique and test your dog and decided if he is worthy of passing on his genes. But you will have to be thick skinned as working-line breeders tend to be high expectations of dogs, especially ones used for breeding. Also, if he is spectacular, they may wish to use him themselves and generally if done with bitches, the owner gets to keep a pup. Not sure if this would still apply with a dog. Do you want to keep a pup - otherwise why do you want to breed anyway? Another suggestion would be to join another forum that focuses on working dogs. The GSD people there will know your dogs lines etc and be more appropriate to comment than a pet or show dog forum. Sorry, not meaning to insult those here as I agree with the other comments as well, but better to talk to those who own, work and breed DDR Shepherds. http://www.specialistcanines.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 do you have the means to keep dog and bitch apart when bitch is in season every 6 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 You also need to read up on state legislation in VIC regarding breeding. On my phone so can't link but if you go into the breeder section if the forum you will see a thread on dogsVIC and compliance which had links in it to the state regs you will need to be familiar with as a breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I will add that I too am not against anyone becoming a breeder and we need to encourage the future of our fancy but ylu may find that while your male teaches you a lot about the breed, no matter how good he actually is he may not be the right choice in the end for whatever bitch you get. You need to be prepared NOT to use him on her if he is not the best choice and not be tempted just to use him because he is there and convenient or for any sentimental reasons. As a breeder you need to learn to look at your dogs on two different levels - as the loving pet and companion you adore and that is 'perfect' in that respect and as the example of the breed which you need to look at unemotionally and critically and pick apart by looking at its faults and failings as well as its strengths as a potential breeding animal. Not everyone can separate these two, but it is something a good breeder learns and is important to do. As is understanding that picking a dog apart and looking at is critically for breeding does not lessen its perfection as a beloved pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I will add that I too am not against anyone becoming a breeder and we need to encourage the future of our fancy but ylu may find that while your male teaches you a lot about the breed, no matter how good he actually is he may not be the right choice in the end for whatever bitch you get. You need to be prepared NOT to use him on her if he is not the best choice and not be tempted just to use him because he is there and convenient or for any sentimental reasons. As a breeder you need to learn to look at your dogs on two different levels - as the loving pet and companion you adore and that is 'perfect' in that respect and as the example of the breed which you need to look at unemotionally and critically and pick apart by looking at its faults and failings as well as its strengths as a potential breeding animal. Not everyone can separate these two, but it is something a good breeder learns and is important to do. As is understanding that picking a dog apart and looking at is critically for breeding does not lessen its perfection as a beloved pet. Very well said :clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I could very well be wrong (wouldn't shock me!) but I *think* from looking at his pedigree that he has some showlines mixed in along the way. Don't know that is any help in regards to your question :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSAR2010 Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 Thank you all very much for advice.....I'll need to do a lot of research & thinking...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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