Collaboration

[DogsAndTheMob]

Doctors routinely ask patients about family medical history, but no veterinarian has ever asked me about the veterinary history of a puppy's parents or their veterinary or genetic screening. In fact, local veterinarians that I have consulted have lacked knowledge about genetic diseases in dogs. It would be good if veterinarians had access to this knowledge, so that puppy purchasers could consult them about recommended health/genetic testing in their breed/ crossbreed of choice, before they acquire a puppy.

I would like to see a collaboration between ANKC and veterinary and genetic specialists to build a web-accessible index of recommended health and genetic testing for breeds and popular crosses, together with an explanation of the implications of parental test status. Veterinarians would be able to factor this information into advice to clients, and into diagnostic algorithms.

Edited March 9, 2013 by DogsAndTheMob

[espinay2]

Not an Australian site but one that basically does this (and aust breeders etc can use it): http://www.offa.org/

also http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/intro.htm is useful

Edited March 8, 2013 by espinay2

[Dory the Doted One]

After just a very quick search I've found that the GSDCA allow public access to Hip and Elbow statistics.

The NRCA (National Rottweiler Council), does not. Unless you are a member, which means also being a member of a State Club before you can be a member of the NRCA. What if you don't want to be a member, yet you want to make sure that the hip and elbow status of a particular breeding combination will result in a reduced risk of the conditions?

I haven't checked other breeds, but I do wonder why public access is limited. Especially as OFA seems to allow us to have a good look at various stats.

Seems a shame that even if you wanted to look and research, you can't unless you want to hassle the pants off your breeder and then just how much info would they give you anyway? Obviously if they care...a lot.

Anyway...just a random question on a boring Saturday morning.

[DogsAndTheMob]

Thanks for that information. I'm not sure how accessible the information on genetic testing would be for the average puppy purchaser, or even the average busy vet.

I think it will be difficult to make widespread improvements in the genetic health of dogs until the local veterinarian knows enough to look at the puppy that walks in the door and ask, " were the parents of your phalene tested for PRA?" or "were the parents of your Elkhound tested for Chondrodysplasia?" , even if she has never seen a phalene or an elkhound before. It will also be difficult to make improvements until the vet also looks at the crossbreed puppy and says, "hmm, he looks to be part poodle. As we don't know anything about the rest of his ancestry, his parents should have been tested for PRA and renal dysplasia and undergone screening for patella luxation."

I don't think we can expect that of vets until they have the genetic screening information accessible at the click of a mouse.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Doesn't sound like you've listened to what the other posters have said so far.

FWIW, when I had my Salukis' hearts echoed, when we started the consult the cardiologist said "OK, I have the normal profiles from the Saluki Club of America" - IOW, he'd done the necessary mouse clicking to find the breed information he needed without any drama.

Yes, sometimes vets will say "is this an issue in Salukis"? I'm happy to help out with what I know. You know what else I've seen. Veterinary consultants who want genetic information used to "practice build" and dupe pet owners into having a lot of unnecessary expensive tests. Do you have an interest in that side of things?

[Salukifan]

Thanks for that information. I'm not sure how accessible the information on genetic testing would be for the average puppy purchaser, or even the average busy vet.

I think it will be difficult to make widespread improvements in the genetic health of dogs until the local veterinarian knows enough to look at the puppy that walks in the door and ask, " were the parents of your phalene tested for PRA?" or "were the parents of your Elkhound tested for Chondrodysplasia?" , even if she has never seen a phalene or an elkhound before. It will also be difficult to make improvements until the vet also looks at the crossbreed puppy and says, "hmm, he looks to be part poodle. As we don't know anything about the rest of his ancestry, his parents should have been tested for PRA and renal dysplasia and undergone screening for patella luxation."

I don't think we can expect that of vets until they have the genetic screening information accessible at the click of a mouse.

You could say that about any small dog, purebred or not. It's not that difficult to find out about what health issues affect a particular breed. Google the breed name and health and up it comes.

One website would be good though.

[DogsAndTheMob]

No, SkySoaringMagpie, I don't work for a vet or for any enterprise even remotely associated with the veterinary industry. I'm not a breeder, either, so I don't have a vested interest in purebred dogs. I do believe that both genetic advances and information technology offer unprecedented opportunities for breed improvement.

[SwaY]

. It would be good if veterinarians had access to this knowledge, so that puppy purchasers could consult them about recommended health/genetic testing in their breed/ crossbreed of choice, before they acquire a puppy.

Why would someone looking for a puppy speak to a veterinarian first?

It's up to the buyer to research and ask the breeder or breed club questions.

Anyone can spend 30min on google and find out what testing should be done for what breed and what problems occur in the breed they are interested in.

[Sheridan]

No, SkySoaringMagpie, I don't work for a vet or for any enterprise even remotely associated with the veterinary industry. I'm not a breeder, either, so I don't have a vested interest in purebred dogs. I do believe that both genetic advances and information technology offer unprecedented opportunities for breed improvement.

I'm not sure what you're interest is if you have no interest in the dogs?

[Janba]

I love DOL when it decides to go for someone DogsAndTheMob is OK and probably a lot more knowledgeable than a lot of DOL members

[Janba]

The ANKC does ahve a have a Canine Health & Welfare Committee and I know it is active. State CC should also have working parties or committees.

One of the problems is that ANKC registered dogs only account for about 20% of the dog population in Aus so for an Aus wide health data base you would also need to enlist the breeders of cross breeds etc who probably don't care. The ANKC probably isn't interested in the health concerns of the crosses either.

There are plenty of breed specific databases and plenty of breed clubs thgat push health education to the general public. I know my BC club pushed genetic testing and disease awareness to the public recently regardless of whether theyb were looking at ANKC registered dogs or not after the recent cases of TNS & CL affected BYB BCs.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Janba

[DogsAndTheMob]

Thanks Janba. I must admit I feel bewildered about why this thread degenerated into personal attacks.

Sheridan, my relatives have been members of RASKC/NSWCC/Dogs NSW continuously since 1944 ( and I have photos of my grandparents and great-grandparents with their purebred dogs, dating back before WWi), but my passion is for dogs and their welfare, not simply for one subset of the species.

[SwaY]

I see a discussion, I don't see personal attacks??

Feedback and discussions are not personal attacks,

[DogsAndTheMob]

There is a lot of good information on the web. There is also a lot of misinformation.

I see two major issues. Firstly, the focus on genetic testing of purebred dogs gives the false impression that crossbreed dogs are somehow exempt from the risk of genetic disease.

Secondly, I have observed that many people have great difficulty understanding Mendelian genetics. ( I have even read books by senior breeders who got it wrong.) I think many people would have difficulty understanding that a puppy with one parent clear for a recessive disease and one carrier parent is a safer bet than a puppy whose parents have not been tested for that disease.

A knowledgeable vet could act in the role of an "honest broker", advocating for appropriate genetic testing, and helping puppy purchasers to interpret the results.

[espinay2]

Had a think about this, and you know I don't think I have ever had a dr ask me about my family history (though I think I did volunteer that info myself once when going to ask about something specific to do with that history.) Otherwise many drs appts have been not much different from most vet appts. You go for a reason and get that treated/done. it would be nice if vets were able to provide that service but in the end they are not much different from your average GP. And unless they have a particular interest in a field they are unlikely to pursue it very deeply. Genetic testing of dogs is rather specialist knowledge for a vet who deals with a range of species and sees a range of dogs both pure and crossbreed and all except those with a keen interest are unlikely to even know some of the breeds they see. They may simply not have time during a busy consult to look up for every patient what tests are recommended for that breed. And may not have that facility available in their consult room to do it there and then. Frankly sometimes itoo it can be hard enough for them to get basic health care messages across. A good idea, but not sure how practical for the general GP vet it would be?

Edited March 9, 2013 by espinay2

[Xyz]

. It would be good if veterinarians had access to this knowledge, so that puppy purchasers could consult them about recommended health/genetic testing in their breed/ crossbreed of choice, before they acquire a puppy.

Why would someone looking for a puppy speak to a veterinarian first?

It's up to the buyer to research and ask the breeder or breed club questions.

Anyone can spend 30min on google and find out what testing should be done for what breed and what problems occur in the breed they are interested in.

I often think this would be helpful. Not necessarily a vet, but somebody with knowledge and an interest.

In my puppy preschools I very often have people bringing in their totally unsuitable new puppy (everything from the "groodle"- coz it's hypoallergenic..., to the byb bc to live in a suburban backyard with little stimulus..., to the choc lab or blue staffy bought for colour. even the pet shop puppy they 'saved'...)

These new owners are not stupid, just misinformed... IF they could have got the correct information BEFORE choosing their puppy we could start to weed out some of the issues we are seeing.

Don't know how it could be done, but it is something myself and my vets have discussed...

Edited March 9, 2013 by Xyz

[WreckitWhippet]

. It would be good if veterinarians had access to this knowledge, so that puppy purchasers could consult them about recommended health/genetic testing in their breed/ crossbreed of choice, before they acquire a puppy.

Why would someone looking for a puppy speak to a veterinarian first?

It's up to the buyer to research and ask the breeder or breed club questions.

Anyone can spend 30min on google and find out what testing should be done for what breed and what problems occur in the breed they are interested in.

I often think this would be helpful. Not necessarily a vet, but somebody with knowledge and an interest.

In my puppy preschools I very often have people bringing in their totally unsuitable new puppy (everything from the "groodle"- coz it's hypoallergenic..., to the byb bc to live in a suburban backyard with little stimulus..., to the choc lab or blue staffy bought for colour. even the pet shop puppy they 'saved'...)

These new owners are not stupid, just misinformed... IF they could have got the correct information BEFORE choosing their puppy we could start to weed out some of the issues we are seeing.

Don't know how it could be done, but it is something myself and my vets have discussed...

That's called a "responsible breeder". No one knows a breed better or the home it would be bets suited to and ensures that's where pups are placed, than a responsible breeder.

To be honest, most vets struggle to name and recognise every breed, let alone be familiar with the breed traits and diseases associated with.

My vet refers people seeking puppies or older dogs to registered breeders, I get a call a month or more, from people saying that the vet has gievn me your contact details and can you help me with ?

[Xyz]

. It would be good if veterinarians had access to this knowledge, so that puppy purchasers could consult them about recommended health/genetic testing in their breed/ crossbreed of choice, before they acquire a puppy.

Why would someone looking for a puppy speak to a veterinarian first?

It's up to the buyer to research and ask the breeder or breed club questions.

Anyone can spend 30min on google and find out what testing should be done for what breed and what problems occur in the breed they are interested in.

I often think this would be helpful. Not necessarily a vet, but somebody with knowledge and an interest.

In my puppy preschools I very often have people bringing in their totally unsuitable new puppy (everything from the "groodle"- coz it's hypoallergenic..., to the byb bc to live in a suburban backyard with little stimulus..., to the choc lab or blue staffy bought for colour. even the pet shop puppy they 'saved'...)

These new owners are not stupid, just misinformed... IF they could have got the correct information BEFORE choosing their puppy we could start to weed out some of the issues we are seeing.

Don't know how it could be done, but it is something myself and my vets have discussed...

That's called a "responsible breeder". No one knows a breed better or the home it would be bets suited to and ensures that's where pups are placed, than a responsible breeder.

To be honest, most vets struggle to name and recognise every breed, let alone be familiar with the breed traits and diseases associated with.

My vet refers people seeking puppies or older dogs to registered breeders, I get a call a month or more, from people saying that the vet has gievn me your contact details and can you help me with ?

As I said I'm thinking about the people NOT already going to a registered responsible breeder... I'm well aware what the ideal is..

[WreckitWhippet]

There's a wealth of information available on GTA's website. How hard is it for someone to look up information pertaining to their potential breed of choice.

Between breeders websites, breed clubs and testing labs, it's all there and freely available to anyone who can be bothered and that includes vets.

As someone else pointed out, the average vet has enough difficulty in conveying the message regarding basic animal care, let alone wading in on and providing breed specicif information and personally I don;t think a vet should be recommending or discouraging the purchase of any breed, if they do not have first hand experience of owning, breeding or raising a particular breed.

[WoofnHoof]

I think a national database is a good idea, one that vets and the general public can view and only authorised vets, breed clubs and ANKC officials can alter. Everyone can google but what is google telling them? Some of its correct some of it isn't and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference, look at all the 'facts' that get thrown around on FB without even the hint of verification, people just believe it and pass it on as if it is true.

Collaboration with vets could also help to disseminate fact from fiction as they would be able to add relevant health information. For example say I have a dog with HD and reported this to the breed club, they add that into their records but I neglect to mention that the dog is also overweight and this has been a contributing factor. By having veterinary input they are trained to look at other factors so they might add a note to the database that yes this dog has HD but it is exacerbated by its excessive weight. In a dog within the correct weight range the problem may not be as severe or even affect the dogs mobility.

I know that vets aren't infallible but they are trained to record and assess health issues so I think a database that could be accessed and added to by vets could be beneficial. Most vets now have microchip details on record so it would be simple to crosscheck these against existing ANKC registers to check that the dogs which are stated to be pure can be verified, all others can go onto an 'unknown or not verified' section so that results can still be recorded but not be confused with verified purebred dogs.