german_shep_fan Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 BC and Trifecta am on ph but will reply to your PMS soon. There are not many pics of the very early or first GSDs but these are some I know of that are floating around on the web. Obv personal opinion but I believe my girl still resembles these very early shepherds https://leerburg.com/webboard/printthread.php?topic_id=13205 There are also pics of the changes in the breed which are easily found on Google but they only begin from the 40s or so. I believe if it ain't broke then don't fix it basically. There are a lot of factors that go into breeding, dogs that complement each other, the health and temperament of each dog and its ancestors ect. The list is obv endless. Von Stephanitz never cared what colours or patterning a dog was, he cared that the dog was sound in structure and temp and could work and I believe that is what my girl represents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Changes only happened after the 40s? Ummm sure :laugh: Max Von Stephanitz was trying to cement a type after noticing the huge variation in Shepherd dogs. Obviously even right at the beginning there was huge variation in the breed UNTIL the type really took off. There is still major variation today! He also selected on type. Including adding a shorter stocky stud to breed against the tall Leggy types like above. He also selected for a type. Which included some of the things people are disagreeing with here. It's true he would choose structure over colour etc but only to work towards a look. Including the structure which creates the slope people hate so much. It's highly specific what Max set out. I'd link you to other images just as easily found on Google of the dogs he selected himself which bred away from the look above but I'm on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 What I'm getting at is that a slope is desired within reason. Over angulation or weakness are not desired. Just like non at all is not desired. As i said if the dog looks weak, wobbly in the hocks I would not breed from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I meant there are not many pics from earlier than the 40s. We love and breed shepherds the way we want to and you do the same. I am not entering into a p*ssing comp with you on a dog forum, a forum for show breeders, I am not so stupid as to not realise how outnumbered my view of what a good shepherd is will be here. I simply showed the OP pics of my girl to show her there are still shepherds without the extreme angulations that are common now. You can keep your show dogs and I will keep my working 'pet' dogs :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Like I said she is a beautiful dog. From your account a great pet right? Is she the ideal type for a German Shepherd dog? That's obviously hotly debated. I was discussing the use of the label "old style" where a dog is presented and people are told this is how GSDs looked and "show people" have wrecked everything. I think of it as not educating people on the real issues. Extremes are never good for a breed. Id like people who may not be hugely knowledgeable on the breed but interested to get a better understanding. So many people ask why and its not nearly as simple as well show people ruined it. IMO no matter the "line" a dog is from it should be within the standard if its going to be bred from. In all aspects. That doesn't take away from how great your dog is. Id also like to point out that the top line does not equal over all soundness. Just like it doesn't equal HD or ED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Back in the 50s/60s/70s I had friends who bred and showed, very successfully, the 'óld style' Shepherds. They would turn in their graves if they saw these 'new' types! Interesting to walk behind some of them around the show area - those hinds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 And another of my girl winning Best of Breed at the Sydney Royal Dog Show She is STUNNING!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Back in the 50s/60s/70s I had friends who bred and showed, very successfully, the 'óld style' Shepherds. They would turn in their graves if they saw these 'new' types! Interesting to walk behind some of them around the show area - those hinds How do you think Von Stephanitz feels :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It's interesting what you all actually class as "old type" , heavy set, short legged, deep, sway back....this was not Max Von Stephanitz type. Here is a photo from 1912 at what is probably known as the first breed survey, with Captain Von Stephanitz, as you can see, the original type was a very athletic dog, who would have no trouble working sheep all day long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakkjackal Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It's interesting what you all actually class as "old type" , heavy set, short legged, deep, sway back....this was not Max Von Stephanitz type. Here is a photo from 1912 at what is probably known as the first breed survey, with Captain Von Stephanitz, as you can see, the original type was a very athletic dog, who would have no trouble working sheep all day long I think these two sisters somewhat represent that "real" old type. Freia & Fricka, working line shepherds. Fricka's back is slightly too sloped for my liking but apart from that they look like they sure could work sheep all day, if not all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Who says the old style can't still herd all day? Both mine are over standard show height and both girls parents are herders yet are big dogs. Yet again, as these convos always do they are going round in pointless circles with showies saying we live in the past and non showies saying how could you let it get to this. I think the OP probably understands abt the different lines and the controversy by now :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) ... Edited August 4, 2013 by german_shep_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) .... Edited August 4, 2013 by german_shep_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) .. Edited August 4, 2013 by german_shep_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) ... Edited August 4, 2013 by german_shep_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Oops sorry iPad issuews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 It's interesting what you all actually class as "old type" , heavy set, short legged, deep, sway back....this was not Max Von Stephanitz type. Here is a photo from 1912 at what is probably known as the first breed survey, with Captain Von Stephanitz, as you can see, the original type was a very athletic dog, who would have no trouble working sheep all day long I think these two sisters somewhat represent that "real" old type. Freia & Fricka, working line shepherds. Fricka's back is slightly too sloped for my liking but apart from that they look like they sure could work sheep all day, if not all week. Oooh Freia is stunning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 No, not "heavy set, sway back, short legs". Lovely firm toplines, good length of leg and excellent firm drive and reach. I do remember friends saying you should be able to balance a cup of water on their backs when moving. I have some pics of some of their winners here somewhere but finding them may be the problem, it's been a long time lol. Guess I'm the 'óld type' too, can't watch those banana backs hobbling around the ring. Not a Shepherd person although have been in the working group so better keep my opinions to myself lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Hockz- those girls are stunning. I really like that type. Why would they not fair well in a show ring? What point of the standard do they not meet? Genuinely interested as i am not experienced at all in interpreting standards and comparing them to the dogs in front of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 This is how a GSD should move in a two beat trot. They can also do a faster 4 beat suspension trot that no other breed can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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