Treat Delivery During Training

[Nushie]

Just after some ideas/advice on how to give treats during training. I know that sounds like a weird question but Jager (pug) gets so excited during training - he is very food motivated - that after one or two he starts getting my fingers as well. Not biting them and generally it doesnt hurt at the time but after a 15mins twice a day my fingers end up being pretty sensitive from just constantly being scrapped by his teeth. I use bits of devon or chicken as rewards and even if i use a lower value reward it still happens. I have taught him "gentle" so that he gently takes food from my hand but during a training session I dont want to have to stop everytime to reward him. I just want to reward and move on.

Any ideas on how to stop this? Bigger treats - he tends to stop and lose focus if he has to chew it.

I try to give the reward in front of him, so that i am not offering from above to discourage lunging for it. but that hasnt really helped either. He doesnt break from his sit or anything, just lunges is neck and head forward as soon as the treat is in range.

Do i just stop, step back and work on only giving his treats when he takes them gently?

[huski]

I would;

1) Teach him to catch treats, it can help make the game fast and fun if you throw treats, you can throw them in the air or on the ground and get him to chase them.

2) Hold the food differently. Put a piece between your thumb and finger and cup your hand slightly so that he isn't grabbing at your fingers. This is the best way to do it so you don't get bitten :)

3) Does he have a marker word and release word? Once I release them to the reward I play a game and they are allowed to be super excited, chase the food etc. This helps teach self control.

4) If he's really bad wear training gloves :laugh:

[sheena]

Play catch with the treat, then the game becomes part of the reward....other than that, always make sure you hand him the treat with a flat hand...not held in your fingers.

[teekay]

Maybe try a Lickety stick. I have the same problem with Luka and keep meaning to give these a try. Although the flat hand thing works too but it depends what position he is in, whether I am coordinated enough to manage the flat hand delivery. Great when he is beside me but not so good when he is in front of me :)

https://petsafeaustralia.com.au/products/lickety-stik-1.html

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I suggested to someone that she put peanut paste on a wooden spoon so it would be easier to get rewards to her puppy's level (close to the ground).

Several other dog trainers suggest if the dog is too excited by food, to put the food in a cup or plastic clip shut box - over there... and when the dog gets something right - say Yes and run to the box and give them a treat.

It slows down the rate of re-inforcement somewhat, but can balance out the excitement.

I would probably start each warm up drill with "its yer choice" and doggy that bites - doesn't get the treat. It does mean sore fingers the first few times but they learn fast. Don't cue gentle - just don't let go the treat until they are gentle.

If my dog gets a bit casual about separating treat from fingers - I stop and do the Its yer choice thing with her - because I like my fingers attached to me. It slows down delivery during heelwork but I reward way too much in that anyway - more average or better and that includes gentle treat taking - or running to the box of treats.

[Nekhbet]

His excitement is part of your overall training and reward. It's OK to be motivated but it's not OK to be nipping, jumping, over excited. You're also rewarding his overall state of excitement, the more you reward it the more he will escalate. If he goes too far, remove the reward and give it to him when he's settled.

He doesnt break from his sit or anything, just lunges is neck and head forward as soon as the treat is in range.

I teach the focus has to remain until the treat is given. I dont like my fingers bitten, and the dogs learn nothing but snatch and grab. I've never had to wear gloves, even with the prey dogs because they all learn how to take the reward and especially prey dogs, you MUST teach targeting. That is the point of it, it's about controlled interaction, not a free for all.

[Nushie]

thanks guys - he already knows how to catch treats but generally in the middle of a training session he just gets so excited that half of them bouce off his face and then he runs after then. I dont want him to do that, i want to be able to treat him and then move on without losing focus for the session.

I will try holding onto the treats until he calms down and takes them gently i guess it will be slow at first while he figures it out but hopefully he will pick up on the fact that if he is calm he gets the treat quicker.

Thanks for all the tips.

[Nushie]

I suggested to someone that she put peanut paste on a wooden spoon so it would be easier to get rewards to her puppy's level (close to the ground).

So when you want to treat you just lower the spoon to their level so they can have a lick and that is their reward??

[Kavik]

You could try Its Yer Choice, one of Susan Garrett's impulse control games. I have given it a go properly for the first time with my puppy and it is so awesome! Impulse control and focus and not to take the treat until they are given it or told they can get it.

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes to impulse control!!!

Nushie, think about your criteria for the sit. If you want your lad to sit and not stretch forward (despite not moving) you can elect not to reward that behaviour. Fly the food in slowly towards the dog and then reward quickly if he maintains the exact position. If he leans his head forward to snatch, just fly the food away without saying a word. It takes very good timing and it is better if someone can show you but it is truly my favourite game to teach sit, stand, drop stays as well as impulse control. And they learn the game so quickly it's rather fun!

Oh, and a great tip about catching food when he's excited - do it with him standing in water if he will....if he doesn't catch it the food is GONE!

Edited September 6, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[Nushie]

Oh, and a great tip about catching food when he's excited - do it with him standing in water if he will....if he doesn't catch it the food is GONE!

Haha he is a pug.... soggy food is still food :)

Yes to impulse control!!!

Nushie, think about your criteria for the sit. If you want your lad to sit and not stretch forward (despite not moving) you can elect not to reward that behaviour. Fly the food in slowly towards the dog and then reward quickly if he maintains the exact position. If he leans his head forward to snatch, just fly the food away without saying a word. It takes very good timing and it is better if someone can show you but it is truly my favourite game to teach sit, stand, drop stays as well as impulse control. And they learn the game so quickly it's rather fun!

Thanks for this, its a great tip

I will also have a look at Its Yer Choice - thanks Kavik.

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes, but find the food that SINKS!!!! :laugh:

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I suggested to someone that she put peanut paste on a wooden spoon so it would be easier to get rewards to her puppy's level (close to the ground).

So when you want to treat you just lower the spoon to their level so they can have a lick and that is their reward??

Yes. You might have a "bridge" word like "yes", and maybe a permission to "geddit" release word, I usually only use "yes". Susan Garrett mixes it up a bit so sometimes it's a bit hard to tell when she's playing "its yer choice" and putting treats on the dog's nose - which is nearly impossible if you have "yes" as your bridge and permission to eat the treat combined. So sometimes she has "yes" and the release word separate... and will chuck treats all around the dog and sometimes she has "yes" and/or just shoves treats directly into the dog's mouth (eg working the heel placement ("re-inforcement zone" or "RZ")

If I was using spoon and peanut reward - I would hold it on the opposite side and out of sight as much as possible to the placement I was working and when I got the action I wanted to reward, I'd say "yes" and put the spoon past my knee and then in front of the dog's nose for licking. Careful not to scare the crap out of the dog or bob it in the face in the process. But the spoon then becomes a "target stick" and the dog will eventually find bopping it with its nose rewarding by itself. It's important not to use it as a lure to get the position you want, but to reward in position when you get the position/action you want. Subtley different.

And after the dog has learned the task - start only rewarding the best or at least average (average or better) performances. Note to self - I need to do this more, and deal with the doggy frustration (screaming cattle dog high pitched yips).

[sheena]

[huski]

I've never had to wear gloves, even with the prey dogs because they all learn how to take the reward and especially prey dogs, you MUST teach targeting. That is the point of it, it's about controlled interaction, not a free for all.

Yes the dogs need to learn how to target toys etc properly, but sometimes (generally due to handler error) accidents happen. Especially in the beginning when the dog (and handler) is still learning, I'd rather wear gloves just in case. I don't believe anyone who says they've never copped an accidental bite playing tug etc.

[Nekhbet]

I don't believe anyone who says they've never copped an accidental bite playing tug etc.

I've copped a slight stray tooth but never had a bite. I start with large targets and move down as the dog learns to aim for the middle of the tug or give a decent string length on the ball but really I don't use them that often compared to tugs. Comes down to tug delivery as well, you develop uber l33t ninja skills over the years :laugh:

[huski]

I don't believe anyone who says they've never copped an accidental bite playing tug etc.

I've copped a slight stray tooth but never had a bite. I start with large targets and move down as the dog learns to aim for the middle of the tug or give a decent string length on the ball but really I don't use them that often compared to tugs. Comes down to tug delivery as well, you develop uber l33t ninja skills over the years :laugh:

...or our dogs are faster than yours :laugh:

You are the first person out of 100s I've ever heard of that has never taken a bite playing tug. You must have super ninja skills!

Edited September 9, 2013 by huski

[aussielover]

Throwing a treat just encourages snatching in my experience. Honestly I usually just feed treats to my dog with a flat hand (like how you would feed a horse), especially if she's excited! She also knows the word gentle but will only actually be gentle if you remember to tell her.

[Nekhbet]

..or our dogs are faster than yours :laugh:

You are the first person out of 100s I've ever heard of that has never taken a bite playing tug. You must have super ninja skills!

I know my dogs are going to be fast hence why I was taught yeeeeeeeeeeeeeears ago to teach the dog targeting skills. It's why I start pups with big, fat rags rolled up well over a foot wide and hold it at the ends, then gradually move closer together. It's why tugs are graduated too from soft, long tugs to smaller and smaller. I don't use balls all the time either because too many dogs slip them and then end up in this desperate manic snatching mode trying to grab it and your hand gets nailed. It's a two way street, the dog too needs to learn to target otherwise you end up with slipping, poor target bites that either lose you points in competition or the dog can be injured in protection work (restricted airway, tooth/nose/facial injuries)

My friend taught me a targeting exercise, throw tennis balls at a person and they have to get them with their hand/forearm. It teaches you to target quickly because you have to learn to predict the dog so it can get a decent bite on the target you set and it protects you most of all. Having a hand nailed through a tug toy is one thing, having a trained dog miss and nail you because you're not putting the sleeve/suit in the right position will put you in hospital if you're not protected. Not every dog is a Schutzhund dog that will just take trained targets.

I've copped a hard bite to the booby before from a pomeranian who refused to let go, trust me, I have no intention of regular injuries from larger dogs

Edited September 9, 2013 by Nekhbet

[huski]

Throwing a treat just encourages snatching in my experience. Honestly I usually just feed treats to my dog with a flat hand (like how you would feed a horse), especially if she's excited! She also knows the word gentle but will only actually be gentle if you remember to tell her.

The risk you run in just handing a treat over is that it can create slow and unreliable responses.