SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Hi, just wondering if anyone has an experience of border collie collapse. We have a 1yo. male border collie, and hes had a few episodes (even in winter)but with the warmer weather they seem more often. Some days hes can go for a while without an issue, other days 5 minutes and hes totally disorientated, will just walk (stagger) off, cant seem to hear or see, and then collapses. Anyone have this, what sort of things did you do to deal with it? did it effect how old did your border collie live to, anything you would do differently. (he means the world to us, so any info is appreciated) Edited October 29, 2013 by SonnyBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Take him to the vet, get him checked for CL as well as other conditions. Have blood taken. It could be so many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Yep my 5 year old BC has episodes since she was around 13 months give or take a bit. There is no genetic test at this stage unfortunately but hopefully in the pipeline. I have submitted my girls blood for the research work into the condition. Here is a link to a video of one of Kenz's more minor episodes - The one thing to remember is the more episodes they have the more they are prone to them. She is exercised year round in a cool coat or with access to water. You learn to watch for the signs of an impending episode and take appropriate action eg cooling them off. Swimming is good exercise for a dog with the condition and its pretty essential in summer that most exercise occurs with access to water. Be mindful though because in labs there have been cases of dogs collapsing with access to water. There is also a FB group for people's dogs have the condition if you want to join it and share experiences. Is your dog ANKC pedigreed? There are a few instances occurring and if so I would be mentioning it to your dogs breeder to. The condition is thought to be recessive as it is in labs. Edited October 29, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Have a vets appointment for tomorrow, so definitely getting it checked out. looking at videos online, I am fairly sure its the BCC, you can see when he starts faltering, and on walks about 30min in its like his brain stops working (hes super obedient but suddenly will start not obeying or take a few times to obey, so I know to stop and let him recover) walking is not too bad, its the ball chasing that gets him to the point really quickly. He also recovers quite quickly (5-10min) Just hoping it can be controlled well :) The last couple times we hosed him down (he loves water), but hoping to control it so it doesn't get to that point, though online says they are not in pain.. I am sure looking at them that its not comfortable for them at all. We also live where its super humid :/ What is a cool coat? Edited October 29, 2013 by SonnyBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 https://www.facebook.com/groups/border.collie.collapse/ is this the fb group, would love to join Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Yep thats it send a request to join - if you don't get added message me and I will tell the moderators to look out for the request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) This is the latest version of cool coat I have tried with Kenz and so far found to be the most suitable - http://cleanrun.com/...product_id=3503 The other thing I would recommend is no ball play because its triggered by intense excitement. If I want to let my girl play fetch we do it in water (i.e the creek or the beach or she gets 2-3 throws of a toy then into the creek). Some signs to watch for is a purple tinge to the tongue, they will also start walking or trotting back with a toy rather than running back although Kenz has gone from running hard to fully over in 2-3 minutes. Most vets aren't really aware of the condition and there are no real diagnostic tests for the condition at this stage. Edited October 29, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Definitely can see the change in pace, and the trotting, also starts drifting his back legs to one side on the way back, which is when we usually stop. Though sometimes that is still too late as he will drop not long after that. Will be getting one of the cool coats to try, particularly on our walks, hes super energetic and I cannot see him happy not being active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have submitted my girls blood for the research work into the condition. I know what research, with owner cooperation, has achieved for a condition that can be found in my breed of interest. So best wishes for results that will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ty Ness sorry to be a bother, with the cool coats, they stay wet when you pack them away? don't they get smelly or moldy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I have only just started using the cool coat that I posted above but know other dogs with the condition who use the coat. It doesn't seem to get smelly and you can actually dry them out they just take longer to rehydrate. This particular model does stay wet when you pack it whereas the others I have tried you can dry them out. I have this one which isn't a "wet" coat which might be ok in your case if you have a slightly larger boy. Kenz is a pretty tiny bitch and its a little bit bulky on her (she weighs only just on 13kg but for a larger dog it may work better) - http://www.k9pro.com.au/techkewl-phase-change-dog-cooler-vest.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Knowing how terrifying it is to witness and having seen Kenz's episodes progress its certainly a condition for which I hope they develop a genetic test soon. A couple of links - one to the announcement on the current state of the research and the second is a link to the university undertaking the research. http://www.bordercol...showtopic=35643 http://www.cvm.umn.e...ordercollieEIC/ Edited October 29, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ty, yep I did find those research pages, looking at those videos helped. Definitely terrifying I took a video of him yesterday, he goes blank and just walks mindlessly(stumbling) and seems to not hear or even see (he went headfirst into a spikey grass tree), I got some on video. He also knocks into things. And then collapses, and lies flat. The first few times I was going to take him to the vet, but he recovers quite quickly so I just kept him comfortable and calm, thought taking him to the vet might bring it on again. Hes probably had it about 7-8 times now in the last 2 months. Being only 12 months old, he still craves activity, will still play a little ball with him, just cut it down to 4-5 throws with lots of snuggles (he loves cuddles as hes the biggest sook) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Please take your dog to a vet ...with the video . If being at a vets triggers an episode- all the better , as the vet will then be able to observe/measure exactly what's happening! Get blood tested, and heart , at least then you know - and also know if there are any underlying problems which may exacerbate the condition. Collapsing every few days will now involve all sorts of management strategies ... Have you discussed this with his breeder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 I do have an vet appointment later today, not too worried he will have an episode at the vet, it is definitely exercise induced, its after an episode I didn't want to run to the vet as I wanted him to stay calm rather than hype him up again. So long as we go in when hes rested. Did have a play with him today, though kept it short, poor boy was trying so hard to keep the play going could see he was wearing quickly. Ness he is a big boy! hes 23.9kg and is the same height as my golden retriever, he is very muscular though, hes always been kept very active (we bought him as a running companion), I worry that the activity levels might have been part of the cause of this that maybe he was too active during his growth stages. (usually he gets 30-45 min twice a day activity, whether its a steady paced run of about 5-6km, or ball play, or walking, or ball play at the beach) I did message the breeder (though shes only breeds her 2 pets and is not a professional breeder) a bit worried as she doesn't seem to care and its made me realise that that's how genetic issues spread and are hard to breed out when people still breed without knowledge or concern of the breed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 If the condition is heat related would keeping the dogs coat clipped short help? I know there have been posts about not clipping dogs with an undercoat as it can ruin the coat but surely the health of the dog is more important than the appearance at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (though shes only breeds her 2 pets and is not a professional breeder) a bit worried as she doesn't seem to care and its made me realise that that's how genetic issues spread and are hard to breed out when people still breed without knowledge or concern of the breed) That's sad. I hope the vet is thorough and caring - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyBC Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Hes been clipped (we live near a river and paralysis ticks are very common so a spring shave was a must) I think he actually gets hotter quicker since being shaved (but could be the warmer weather too), so do wonder if shaving is right or not for heat. (heard both sides of the argument over the years with my golden retriever, who also gets shaved once a year in spring) Still waiting to see how his coat grows back, that was a huge worry, hes black and white but had the golden brown tinge and was incredibly beautiful (most people keep saying hes a girl because of his looks) will be anxious to see how his fur grows back as most dogs seem to have a change in fur after their first shave) Edited October 29, 2013 by SonnyBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 This BC Collapse is just so sad I have heard if you clip a double coated breed that they will suffer the heat worse than one that isn't. There coat is there insulator against the elements apparently. How true it is I am unsure. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Its not so much ambient heat as it is excitement, intense concentration. Kenz has had collapse episodes when its 13 degrees. The video link I posted in this thread it was around 20 degrees and morning. Humidity does seem to play a role in the episodes. I have always found in the much warmer temperatures 30+ Kenz is less likely to collapse. Whether she doesn't push herself quite as hard because its already warm I don't know. The other thing I should have said is long walks are less inclined to trigger an episode. I find it really hard because even teaching tricks/mental outlets can bring on an episode so its a bit tricky it a dog who craves work to find a balance. Edited October 29, 2013 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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