Raw/prey Model Feeding - Fine Tuning

[Darcy&Zoe]

Hi everyone

Ok we are going well with the raw diet for my cavalier (turns 6 months old on 18th July and currently weighs 5.3kg) and I can already see the benefits of this diet in her energy levels and condition but I need to fine tune it to suit my dog.

Her diet to date included chicken necks, chicken wings, turkey necks plus mince or diced beef, lamb, chicken and turkey (she wouldn't touch pork). So far she also likes chicken heart and chicken liver. She wont touch lamb kidney. I am still trying her on beef and lamb heart and beef kidney. She also enjoys carrot, apple and scrambled eggs on occasion (I know a lot of people dont think this is necessary, but it is just on occasion and she enjoys them.)

She will reluctantly eat mince and diced meat, but she doesn't seem very keen, particularly with beef and lamb. The only way she will eat mince or diced meat is if it is hand fed to her or tiny portions are put on a plate a time, more commonly I have to hand feed it (she doesn't particularly like to eat out of a bowl or plate). In contrast, with bones she licks her chops when she sees me get them out and gets right into them immediately.

Anyone else have a dog/puppy that prefers to eat meat off the bone (plus the bone too)? She has had lamb shanks previously and loved it but since doing lots of reading on DOL I know not to give her weight bearing bones.

Wondering what else I can be feeding her?

Can anyone help me.

This is my little girl :)

Edited July 8, 2014 by Darcy&Zoe

[RuralPug]

This particular thread spans years but if you take the time to read it there is so much information that you will learn heaps.

It's about 50 pages long so you might not be able to wade through it in a single sitting but do take the time (or times) : Natural Feeding Chit Chat

There are a great many dogs who prefer meat on the bone over minced meat and I would never consider that a bad thing at all!

What I do consider a bad thing (puts on stern face) is you letting this puppy train you to hand feed her . It's fine to take her preferences into account up to a point but letting her dictate is not good. It could lead to her being overly fussy and refusing to eat a whole group of somethings that your careful research into her diet show that she needs.

Personally I wouldn't exclude weight bearing bones altogether from her diet as they make the very best toothbrushes but I might well remove the marrow so that she doesn't get it all at once (being a small breed) and add it to the goody bag of extras to be doled out in small portions. A cleaver can be your very best friend if you don't have a pet bandsaw .

Something else that you might like to consider offering once or twice a week is a meal of fish. For a small dog one tin of sardines or a fillet from a tin of canned mackerel makes a meal ( if you are feeding twice a day) and is an excellent source of antioxidants. Some prefer to feed fresh fish which is something I have no experience with (plus I admit to worrying about all those sharp needles of fish bones in raw fish ).

And of course you realize that puppy growth needs are not exactly the same as needs in other stages of her life so be prepared to tweak and tweak again as she passes through different ages.

^{Edit to correct punctuation.}

Edited July 8, 2014 by RuralPug

[Yonjuro]

I feed whole fresh fish, scales and all, the bones are absolutely fine. Some feed with guts intact but I am yet to do this. I would remove fins from fish like flathead and cobbler due to the toxicity. With fish it is always best to freeze for a week or two to ensure any parasites and worms are killed off - or so I am led to believe.

I can buy fresh sardines for $7 a kilo from the local fish monger so I would only use tinned as an emergency food back-up.

Fish can be reasonably cheap if you buy what is on special - herring and bream are often < $8kg whole, sea mullet is also cheap. Fish heads are often sold for stock and < $3kg

Goat is also an excellent meat if you can get it cheap. Roo is great but very lean which has pros and cons depending on the diet.

Ronins dinner tonight is whole sand whiting + lamb tongue + raw green tripe followed by a tasty piece of beef neck bone :D

[Darcy&Zoe]

Thanks for the info Yanjuro. I must admit, I am little scared with fresh fish coz of the bones. I will have to build up to this.

I have seen some goat at the local butcher so will give that a try as well.

Any ideas where to get duck and rabbit from as I would love to try her on this. Would I give her the whole duck and rabbit? This is what I am not sure of as well.

[Yonjuro]

Fish bones are the least scary of all bones from a feeding perspective. I read somewhere that fish bones are the only bones that are okay even when cooked - don't quote me on this though as I doubt I would ever feed them cooked, but apparently they remain soft.

I recommend you look up raw feeding fish on a few of the raw feeding sites and it should but your mind at ease regarding the bones.

Regarding rabbit and duck, they are quite expensive so I am not feeding them until I can find a cheap source.

Cheers

Jason

[RuralPug]

Fish bones are the least scary of all bones from a feeding perspective. I read somewhere that fish bones are the only bones that are okay even when cooked - don't quote me on this though as I doubt I would ever feed them cooked, but apparently they remain soft.

I recommend you look up raw feeding fish on a few of the raw feeding sites and it should but your mind at ease regarding the bones.

Regarding rabbit and duck, they are quite expensive so I am not feeding them until I can find a cheap source.

Cheers

Jason

Alas, being no where near a coast fresh fish is prohibitively priced for me. Fresh water species are the only ones actually available fresh here (rainbow trout and the like) and they are still pricey. (Rabbit is cheap and fresh from nearby paddocks though LOL).

The bones in the canned fish are totally soft and splinterproof so those are the only bones I ever feed cooked, but to me the bones in fresh fish seem splinters already and I do worry about them getting caught in the soft palette of the small brachy breeds - even against all logic, sorry.

Thanks for the reassurance, though!

[Yonjuro]

Fish bones are the least scary of all bones from a feeding perspective. I read somewhere that fish bones are the only bones that are okay even when cooked - don't quote me on this though as I doubt I would ever feed them cooked, but apparently they remain soft.

I recommend you look up raw feeding fish on a few of the raw feeding sites and it should but your mind at ease regarding the bones.

Regarding rabbit and duck, they are quite expensive so I am not feeding them until I can find a cheap source.

Cheers

Jason

Alas, being no where near a coast fresh fish is prohibitively priced for me. Fresh water species are the only ones actually available fresh here (rainbow trout and the like) and they are still pricey. (Rabbit is cheap and fresh from nearby paddocks though LOL).

The bones in the canned fish are totally soft and splinterproof so those are the only bones I ever feed cooked, but to me the bones in fresh fish seem splinters already and I do worry about them getting caught in the soft palette of the small brachy breeds - even against all logic, sorry.

Thanks for the reassurance, though!

Lucky you, getting cheap rabbit :)

I certainly do understand the worry about fish bones as they kind of freak me out as a human :) I did a fair bit of research before I decided to feed whole fish to my boy, but like most things food wise for our beloved dogs, all things are not suitable to all dogs.

I have no experience with small brachy breeds so I cannot say either way if the fish bones would pose a problem and I think you are best placed to decide what is right for your dogs. But yeah, rainbow trout would be a bit pricey for regular feeding :D

[Darcy&Zoe]

I am not even sure Zoe will eat fish tbh but I will give it a try down the track :)

I have managed to get hold of some goat and roo so will try her on that as well.

Any ideas where I can get rabbit and duck?

[Yonjuro]

I am not even sure Zoe will eat fish tbh but I will give it a try down the track :)

I have managed to get hold of some goat and roo so will try her on that as well.

Any ideas where I can get rabbit and duck?

Most butchers will have rabbit and duck - Rabbit costs around $27 per bunny, Duck around $20 per bird.

[Darcy&Zoe]

I am not even sure Zoe will eat fish tbh but I will give it a try down the track :)

I have managed to get hold of some goat and roo so will try her on that as well.

Any ideas where I can get rabbit and duck?

Most butchers will have rabbit and duck - Rabbit costs around $27 per bunny, Duck around $20 per bird.

OMG $27 per bunny she would want to eat it lol

The butcher at Maddington looked at me like I was an idiot for asking lol I will try another butcher

I offered her goat pieces this morning and she wont go near it (neither will my other dog which is a bummer coz if he ate it, she might have). The only on bone goat they had was a leg so I thought I should avoid it (as it is weight bearing and I dont want her teeth cracking again), and it was huge for a little dog lol. I guess I should look at other butchers to see what else they have.

[Darcy&Zoe]

I spoke too soon, my non-cavalier just had a go eating some of the goat ... he didn't demolish it, but he had some ... I am hoping my strong willed cavalier will decide to try the goat at some point today. And the cat decided he liked the beef heart :)

[Yonjuro]

I spoke too soon, my non-cavalier just had a go eating some of the goat ... he didn't demolish it, but he had some ... I am hoping my strong willed cavalier will decide to try the goat at some point today. And the cat decided he liked the beef heart :)

I am not sure where you are situated but there is a pet meat supplier in Bassendean that does goat and plenty of other good stuff.

[Darcy&Zoe]

I spoke too soon, my non-cavalier just had a go eating some of the goat ... he didn't demolish it, but he had some ... I am hoping my strong willed cavalier will decide to try the goat at some point today. And the cat decided he liked the beef heart :)

I am not sure where you are situated but there is a pet meat supplier in Bassendean that does goat and plenty of other good stuff.

Thanks, I am near Cannington but dont mind travelling to stock up :)

When I get goat, is there a certain cut I should ask for (sorry for a stupid question, but I have no idea). She finally ate some of the goat but I think she would like it better in another cut (rather than pieces). Same with the roo, I know I should avoid the tail as it is weight bearing but other than that, no idea at all. I am thinking with a duck and rabbit, I should ask for the whole animal?

[Yonjuro]

With the goat - neck, flaps/ribs, spine, shoulder etc should all be good.

I feed roo tails I am not sure if they fit into the weight bearing category though, I wouldn't have thoughts so as they are flexible but I could be wrong ??

Yes to whole rabbit and duck.

[Darcy&Zoe]

With the goat - neck, flaps/ribs, spine, shoulder etc should all be good.

I feed roo tails I am not sure if they fit into the weight bearing category though, I wouldn't have thoughts so as they are flexible but I could be wrong ??

Yes to whole rabbit and duck.

Thank you so much for all your help, I really appreciate it.

I think I read roo tails are considered weight bearing

[persephone]

AFAIK , roo tail is spine ..the bone construction isdifferent to leg bones . They are not that dense shiny bone like legs .I do not consider them 'weight bearing bones' . yes, they do act as shock absorbers- they have a thick tissue/fat layer on the undersides..and a large amount of tendons . they are great for dogs - with meat on ..as they provide work for every tooth type :)

[BC Crazy]

Yeah they are as far as I know. We don't do roo tails here. Major choke hazzard IMO.

[Diva]

Hev you tried lamb flap? Not weight bearing, and you can cut to suit the size of your dog. Basically it's the rib bit. Soft bones. They are fatty so too much would put on weight.

[Darcy&Zoe]

Thanks Diva, I will try her on lamb flap as I haven't tried that yet.

Still undecided about roo tail. My instincts say maybe not for a small breed (especially as she is a puppy) but I will see.

[RuralPug]

I have foster dogs in all sizes here so when a roo tail comes my way I chop it into pieces suitable for the size of the dog - as long as they cannot gulp the vertebrae down whole and must chew, I have no problem.

Some of them have never had bones before so I have to make sure that ALL vertebrae in their piece are wider in both directions than the back of their mouths. I always measure using the smallest end of the chopped piece as they get the meat off quite quickly.

Usually that means the smalls and mediums will get bits of tail but the large and giants are very lucky if I can find a bit big enough for them - choking hazard as BC crazy mentioned.

Sometimes the shooters manage to skin them down to quite dainty little tail ends and I just freeze those and deliver later to the local ferret rescue.