Question For Breeders

[Breeding_Questions]

Hi,

I have a general question that I cant seem to find anywhere on the internet.

I've been reading up a lot lately about responsible breeding and one question i cant find the answer to is how a breeder can determine that the market requires dogs of their breed.

so as the RSPCA page shows "1. Conscientiously attempt to match the demand of animals with the supply - in this way they proactively avoid creating an oversupply of animals."

how do you work out that its ok to breed your dog, I'm not talking about quality of breed here, only the requirement of the breeds demand.

for example, how does a Maltese breeder know they world needs more Maltese puppies.

Or does it not matter and the breed will take place when the bitch is ready to breed?

Conversations can get pretty heated about dog breeding when someone who doesn't know about it asks questions so sorry if this question offends, I was just wondering.

thanks for your time.

[Rebanne]

There is very little demand for my breed (show greyhounds). Finding homes can be a nightmare. But I persist, as do others, because if we don't the breed might be lost. Certainly some bloodlines would disappear and with a small gene pool that could be a big problem. So I have bred 3 litters in 9 years, 16 living puppies. Out of those 16 puppies so far 2 have been bred. Another one will be bred in a year or two.

RSPCA doesn't really know what they are talking about re breeding. (and lots of other things but that's not for here)

So I breed for the breed and I do so at a time that suits me. I am passionate about my breed, I do not want to see it die out so I do my bit to keep it going. I have helped several people realise just how much they needed a greyhound in their life :)

[Breeding_Questions]

There is very little demand for my breed (show greyhounds). Finding homes can be a nightmare. But I persist, as do others, because if we don't the breed might be lost. Certainly some bloodlines would disappear and with a small gene pool that could be a big problem. So I have bred 3 litters in 9 years, 16 living puppies. Out of those 16 puppies so far 2 have been bred. Another one will be bred in a year or two.

RSPCA doesn't really know what they are talking about re breeding. (and lots of other things but that's not for here)

So I breed for the breed and I do so at a time that suits me. I am passionate about my breed, I do not want to see it die out so I do my bit to keep it going. I have helped several people realise just how much they needed a greyhound in their life :)

Thank you for your reply, and I can see in your predicament how/why that breeding would that place to preserve your breed.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I'm not a breeder, however, I don't believe responsible breeders breed to meet demands at all. I think most breed their dogs for themselves in order to hopefully have puppies they'd like to run on as future for their own prefix/stock. Of course, this means there will be other puppies in the litter needing selling.

A puppy I've recently purchased is considered an extremely rare and vulnerable breed here in Australia and in its home country England. Very few puppies are registered annually and there is risk of the breed dying out. A large litter is considered 3 puppies and not all of these will be suitable for breeding.

I'd place little to no stock in any "research" done by the RSPCA as they are against ethical responsible breeders. To me, people breeding for supply/demand = backyard breeder.

[FHRP]

A breeder can get an idea of the market from what interest they get from the public, even when they don't have puppies. Any kind of web presence makes it very clear if you have a 'market' for your breed. I have a website that clearly states no pups planned, but I get inquiries every week. I won't breed to meet that demand, but it's an indication of how popular the breed currently is, also a little scary

[Florise]

how do you work out that its ok to breed your dog, I'm not talking about quality of breed here, only the requirement of the breeds demand.

for example, how does a Maltese breeder know they world needs more Maltese puppies.

Or does it not matter and the breed will take place when the bitch is ready to breed?

The decision to breed is not typically one that is dictated by others, it is a decision the breeder makes based around their own breeding program. If there were to be outside factors to consider however, they could be based on the amount of interest/enquiries they receive, or more importantly, networking amongst peers will tell you whether there is a demand for pups.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Florise

[Breeding_Questions]

I'd place little to no stock in any "research" done by the RSPCA as they are against ethical responsible breeders. To me, people breeding for supply/demand = backyard breeder.

The way I interpret the information from RSPCA, the reason they discuss the market/demand is so over breeding is not done when there are plenty on sheltered dogs to be adopted. so I read it as don't breed unless there is a need for that breed example the first reply to this about the greyhound.

But again that is how I interpret the information.

[Salukifan]

I'd place little to no stock in any "research" done by the RSPCA as they are against ethical responsible breeders. To me, people breeding for supply/demand = backyard breeder.

The way I interpret the information from RSPCA, the reason they discuss the market/demand is so over breeding is not done when there are plenty on sheltered dogs to be adopted. so I read it as don't breed unless there is a need for that breed example the first reply to this about the greyhound.

But again that is how I interpret the information.

How ironic. The RSPCA is cautioning responsible dog breeders about over breeding while the flood of irresponsible bred, irresponsibly placed dogs into pounds continues. Talking about missing the point!

The kind of breeders filling pounds aren't breeding responsibly in the first place.

[Rebanne]

I'd place little to no stock in any "research" done by the RSPCA as they are against ethical responsible breeders. To me, people breeding for supply/demand = backyard breeder.

The way I interpret the information from RSPCA, the reason they discuss the market/demand is so over breeding is not done when there are plenty on sheltered dogs to be adopted. so I read it as don't breed unless there is a need for that breed example the first reply to this about the greyhound.

But again that is how I interpret the information.

But lots of people, me included, do not want a shelter dog. I had a great little crossbreed, which I got from a shelter but she was my one and only in a lifetime of dogs. I want a dog who I basically know what they will grow up to look like, their typical behaviour, their size, temperament etc. If there was more demand for my breed I would consider breeding more often but considering the risks involved to the bitch, who is my beloved pet first and foremost, it would be a decision needing a lot of thought. Breeding well is not cheap and if any money is made it is usually churned into the next breeding.

I actually don't have a problem with a litter being bred to fulfill a waiting list as long as all care is taken, with no difference to a litter bred when you want something. If people want a well bred dog of a particular breed then they shouldn't be forced to go to a pound. In fact a lot would just not own a dog.

[Breeding_Questions]

The decision to breed is not typically one that is dictated by others, it is a decision the breeder makes based around their own breeding program. If there were to be outside factors to consider however, they could be based on the amount of interest/enquiries they receive, or more importantly, networking amongst peers will tell you whether there is a demand for pups.

what type of things would a breeder topically take into account for a breeding program, if not demand for breed? or

I think most breed their dogs for themselves in order to hopefully have puppies they'd like to run on as future for their own prefix/stock.

[Salukifan]

The decision to breed is not typically one that is dictated by others, it is a decision the breeder makes based around their own breeding program. If there were to be outside factors to consider however, they could be based on the amount of interest/enquiries they receive, or more importantly, networking amongst peers will tell you whether there is a demand for pups.

what type of things would a breeder topically take into account for a breeding program, if not demand for breed? or

I think most breed their dogs for themselves in order to hopefully have puppies they'd like to run on as future for their own prefix/stock.

Quality of sire and dam

Compatibiity of bloodlines

Likely improvement to bloodline by doing the mating

Prospects of placing pups in suitable homes.

For most pedigree dogs, demand outstrips supply. This is not the case for many of more common crossbreds found in pounds.

[Dewclaws]

The way I see it .

The demand for well bred pure bred dogs is very high for the majority of breeds . There is 400+ labrador breeders on dogzonline . The vast vast majority ethical breeders. Even so all the pups in my litter were sold before they were born !

Unfortunately the demand for the young lab x staffy in the pound is not high . Which is an absolute tragedy. That's not the sort of dog I want to live with for the next 10 + years though . Sure they might make a good pet for someone, but not my family . The people who irresponsibly put that dog in the pound in the first place are to blame . Backyard breedears or morons who can not control there dogs fertility .

So i don't really think it's a registered breeders responsibly to consider the overall dog population, just their own breeds population and how many good responsible homes out there who are keen to take in one of their pups .

I have owned mix breeds and pure breeds over my life . So far I have had a better experience with the pure breds. They have been more healthier and more stable temprement wise .

And I want to support breeders producing these wonderful animals .

[RiverStar-Aura]

The way I see it .

The demand for well bred pure bred dogs is very high for the majority of breeds . There is 400+ labrador breeders on dogzonline . The vast vast majority ethical breeders. Even so all the pups in my litter were sold before they were born!!

I find it interesting you talk about the "vast majority" then start referring to Labrador Retrievers. One only needs look at the most of the UK terrier breeds to realise the "vast majority" are nowhere near as common/popular/in demand as you make out. In fact, many are probably on the endangered list: Dandie Dinmont, Sealyham, Glen of Imaal, Norfolk, Norwich, Skye just to name a few.

I'd go as far to say that it's really only the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire, Mini Bull Terrier and Bull Terrier that are really classed as being popular and in demand.

[Steph M]

I'd place little to no stock in any "research" done by the RSPCA as they are against ethical responsible breeders. To me, people breeding for supply/demand = backyard breeder.

The way I interpret the information from RSPCA, the reason they discuss the market/demand is so over breeding is not done when there are plenty on sheltered dogs to be adopted. so I read it as don't breed unless there is a need for that breed example the first reply to this about the greyhound.

But again that is how I interpret the information.

I actually don't have a problem with a litter being bred to fulfill a waiting list as long as all care is taken, with no difference to a litter bred when you want something. If people want a well bred dog of a particular breed then they shouldn't be forced to go to a pound. In fact a lot would just not own a dog.

I wholeheartedly agree. People who can't get the purebred pup they want will just go elsewhere, which is no good for anyone.

[OSoSwift]

I COULD have sold 30+ pups over the last few months as "the demand was there" Would I have sold that many? I doubt it because many of the homes were not suitable. So even if people want one of something doesn't meant hey should have one of something.

Good breeders breed for the breed first and foremost. If they bred purely to fill demand I would question their ethics.

[Steph M]

Not suggesting that's the only reason, and that people don't need to wait or be vetted but there's got to be a middle ground between breeding once in a blue moon and a litter a season. All I'm saying is I'd love to see more people with more purebred dogs from fabulous ethical sources and for that to happen in some breeds there needs to be more dogs.

[The Spotted Devil]

I COULD have sold 30+ pups over the last few months as "the demand was there" Would I have sold that many? I doubt it because many of the homes were not suitable. So even if people want one of something doesn't meant hey should have one of something.

Good breeders breed for the breed first and foremost. If they bred purely to fill demand I would question their ethics.

Yes that pretty much sums it up for me too. Lots of demand...not so many suitable homes.

[Steph M]

I COULD have sold 30+ pups over the last few months as "the demand was there" Would I have sold that many? I doubt it because many of the homes were not suitable. So even if people want one of something doesn't meant hey should have one of something.

Good breeders breed for the breed first and foremost. If they bred purely to fill demand I would question their ethics.

Yes that pretty much sums it up for me too. Lots of demand...not so many suitable homes.

Your dudes are a bit more work than the average though! I can see how there's less people willing to put in what they want to get out, I certainly can see that side of it too.

[The Spotted Devil]

I COULD have sold 30+ pups over the last few months as "the demand was there" Would I have sold that many? I doubt it because many of the homes were not suitable. So even if people want one of something doesn't meant hey should have one of something.

Good breeders breed for the breed first and foremost. If they bred purely to fill demand I would question their ethics.

Yes that pretty much sums it up for me too. Lots of demand...not so many suitable homes.

Your dudes are a bit more work than the average though! I can see how there's less people willing to put in what they want to get out, I certainly can see that side of it too.

Aren't they what bless 'em :laugh: I think the Muppet would love Gus by the way....the bigger they are the harder she plays :D

[Dewclaws]

Riverstar aura . My other breed I love is cairn terriers . If I was to get a pup I would undoubtly need to be on a waiting list . Most pups born are quickly placed . Just because some breeds are not popular doesn't mean those being bred are not snapped up quickly . My sister is a registered breeder of a rarer breed less than 30 breeders in australia . She gets puppy enquires at least a couple of timess a week and once she announces a litter normally her waiting list is full before the litter is born .

That's what I mean they are in high demand , in that there is always a core group of enthusiasts of most breeds looking for a quality pup .