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Willem

Why Should We Waste 4 Billion $$ Over The Next 10 Years?

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Willem   

4 billion $$$!!!!... that's the money dog owners in Australia will likely pay over the next 10 years for yearly vaccinations that are not required!

why 4 billion $?...that's approx. 4.2 million dogs x AU$ 90 a shot x 10 years.

I got the reminder for the yearly vaccination for our dog, and I recalled reading about the negative side effects of (over-)vaccination. So I had a second look:

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/purdue-vaccination-studies/

...this time following up also a few of the links / sources cited in this article, and no matter how I read it, the outcome is always:

  • there is hard scientific evidence from independent studies that the puppy shots are absolutely enough to protect the dog from distemper, parvo and ardenovirus for lifetime and that no booster is required!
  • Furthermore, booster shots are not only not required, but generating a significant health risk for dogs that still get the booster shots.

These results prompted the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) in 2003 - while noting that the core vaccines had a minimum duration of immunity of at least seven years stated that 'Revaccination every 3 years is considered protective'.

In 2011, the AAHA updated their Canine Vaccination Guidelines once more to “every 3 years or more” with the following comment:

'Among healthy dogs, all commercially available [core] vaccines are expected to induce a sustained protective immune response lasting at least 5 yr. thereafter'.

Edited by Willem

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I think some of it may have to do with vets trying to make money. According to one friend who is a vet - there is less pet ownership and less vet visits than there was 15 years ago. Certainly our council is making it harder and harder to own and exercise a dog. And homes are getting closer together with less yard also making it harder to own a dog.

And we have higher standards about their care. Mostly. The completely feral people who are happy to own three dogs in a suburban yard and leave them to their own devices probably don't vaccinate either.

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If your vet is still recommending annual vaccinations, then that isn't in accordance with the AVA protocol. Always pays to check that the articles you are reading are up to date. The AVA protocol changed in 2013 to three yearly vaccinations. This isnt' fresh news.

The simple solution if your vet isn't vaccinating in accordance with that protocol is to change vets.

I'm tired of vets being demonised as money hungry over servicers by dog owners who think, because they've read a few articles on the internet, that they know more about vaccination or veterinary medicine than the experts. Homeopathic nosodes? No vaccination after puppy ones? Unless you're titering regularly, you are simply gambling with your dog's health and you are relying on the herd immunity of dogs that are vaccinated to keep yours safe.

My vets vaccinate in accordance with the AVA protocol. So do a lot of others.

Edited by Haredown Whippets

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Willem   

If your vet is still recommending annual vaccinations, then that isn't in accordance with the AVA protocol. Always pays to check that the articles you are reading are up to date. The AVA protocol changed in 2013 to three yearly vaccinations. This isnt' fresh news.

The simple solution if your vet isn't vaccinating in accordance with that protocol is to change vets.

I'm tired of vets being demonised as money hungry over servicers by dog owners who think, because they've read a few articles on the internet, that they know more about vaccination or veterinary medicine than the experts. Homeopathic nosodes? No vaccination after puppy ones? Unless you're titering regularly, you are simply gambling with your dog's health and you are relying on the herd immunity of dogs that are vaccinated to keep yours safe.

My vets vaccinate in accordance with the AVA protocol. So do a lot of others.

the AVA still states:...'A booster vaccine should be administered approximately 12 months later' ...http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/documents/Other/AVA_vaccination_policy.pdf ...and here http://www.ava.com.au/policy/66-vaccination-dogs-and-cats

Edited by Willem

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If your vet is still recommending annual vaccinations, then that isn't in accordance with the AVA protocol. Always pays to check that the articles you are reading are up to date. The AVA protocol changed in 2013 to three yearly vaccinations. This isnt' fresh news.

The simple solution if your vet isn't vaccinating in accordance with that protocol is to change vets.

I'm tired of vets being demonised as money hungry over servicers by dog owners who think, because they've read a few articles on the internet, that they know more about vaccination or veterinary medicine than the experts. Homeopathic nosodes? No vaccination after puppy ones? Unless you're titering regularly, you are simply gambling with your dog's health and you are relying on the herd immunity of dogs that are vaccinated to keep yours safe.

My vets vaccinate in accordance with the AVA protocol. So do a lot of others.

the AVA still states:...'A booster vaccine should be administered approximately 12 months later' ...http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/documents/Other/AVA_vaccination_policy.pdf ...and here http://www.ava.com.au/policy/66-vaccination-dogs-and-cats

Yes a booster should be given 12 months after the puppy shots and then every 3 years thereafter unless you want to titre test. Maternal antibodies and all that. Parvo is rife in some areas still.

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Xyz   

From AVA website.........

An ‘annual health check’ is strongly recommended, even if animals are not to be vaccinated.

Non-core vaccines target diseases that are of limited risk in a geographic region or, based on the lifestyle of the pet, help prevent against diseases that are a less severe health risk to infected animals.

The decision to use non-core vaccines is made for individual pets based upon consultation between the veterinarian and owner.

Many non-core vaccines require annual vaccination.

Willem did the reminder specify which vaccination is due? And the need for annual health check??

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Kalgoorlie vets are saying yearly vaccinations are required "because it gives extra protection from parvo" Had a few arguments with sheeple and then gave up.

I Titre test yearly purely for the kennel as my dogs spend a fair bit of time there.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

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Willem   

Yes a booster should be given 12 months after the puppy shots and then every 3 years thereafter unless you want to titre test. Maternal antibodies and all that. Parvo is rife in some areas still.

...this regime is not backed up by science and contradict the findings from e.g R.D. Schulz. The AAHA is sponsored by four vaccine manufacturers: Merck, Merial, Pfizer and Boehringer Ingelheim so there is some conflict of interest, however even they had to acknowledge that 'the core vaccines had a minimum duration of immunity of at least seven years'!

Edited by Willem

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tdierikx   

Technically, the C3 vaccination should give a lot longer protection than 1-3 years for Parvo, Distemper, and Canine Infectious Hepatitis...

... however, they are most effective when combined with an almost constant exposure (if in small doses) to those diseases. This keeps the titres up, as the antibodies are constantly being stimulated to propagate.

If your dogs are not taken anywhere, or not likely to come into contact with any of those diseases in any way, then checking the titres and/or re-vaccinating is advised.

My dogs are only vaccinated if I need to board them, as boarding kennels require proof of current vaccination - and the Canine Cough vaccine has a short half-life...

T.

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Willem   

From AVA website.........

An ‘annual health check’ is strongly recommended, even if animals are not to be vaccinated.

Non-core vaccines target diseases that are of limited risk in a geographic region or, based on the lifestyle of the pet, help prevent against diseases that are a less severe health risk to infected animals.

The decision to use non-core vaccines is made for individual pets based upon consultation between the veterinarian and owner.

Many non-core vaccines require annual vaccination.

Willem did the reminder specify which vaccination is due? And the need for annual health check??

the post card has boxes ...ticked were the boxes for

  • distemper & hepatitis
  • parvovirus
  • kennel cough

(Note: hepatitis is caused by Adenovirus)...so it would be a C5 booster...

I went in yesterday to discuss side effects and options (titer testing - he will give me a price for titer testing this morning) - I believe it is actually a pretty good vet and highly recommended in this area, and he was open minded to discuss the pro and cons.

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Willem   

Technically, the C3 vaccination should give a lot longer protection than 1-3 years for Parvo, Distemper, and Canine Infectious Hepatitis...

... however, they are most effective when combined with an almost constant exposure (if in small doses) to those diseases. This keeps the titres up, as the antibodies are constantly being stimulated to propagate.

If your dogs are not taken anywhere, or not likely to come into contact with any of those diseases in any way, then checking the titres and/or re-vaccinating is advised.

My dogs are only vaccinated if I need to board them, as boarding kennels require proof of current vaccination - and the Canine Cough vaccine has a short half-life...

T.

...that seems to be the common believe, however, studies undertaken by R.D. Schulz showed clearly that the immunity doesn't wear out once the dog got the shot:

...
'The results from this limited group of dogs clearly demonstrated the Norden modified live vaccines provided immunity for at
least 11 years
against CDV(distemper) and CPV-2 (parvovirus)
...

other studies were aborted after 7 years - all dog involved had immunity till the end of the study, with no indication that it would wear out in the next years.

Edited by Willem

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megan_   

Depends what vaccine you're talking about too. Kennel Cough is still a yearly protocol?

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Willem   

so, price for titer test is:

  • AU$ 120 for parvo and distemper
  • AU$ 144 for hepatitis

seems reasonable; our dog got the second and last shot when she was nearly 21 weeks old, so it is very unlikely that maternal antibodies respectively the 'windows of susceptibility' would have prevented an active immunisation. It's AU$ 174 more than the shot, but once her active immunisation is confirmed it will save the $$ in the long run as I won't bother with vaccinations anymore...and of course I will avoid all the potential health risks associated with booster shots.

Eta:

post-54054-0-48236500-1460096023_thumb.jpg

Edited by Willem

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LisaCC   

2015 World Vaccination Guidelines

This is an earlier thread, read through this, updated information. Might be a while till Australia gets on board with the recommendations, but it's an interesting read.

Australia IS onboard.

This is the AVA protocol It is based on the WSAVA one.

There is NEWER information in this, particularly regarding when to give the first shot AFTER puppy shots.

I know all about the current AVA protocols, my vet follows them, and I completely agree with what you said earlier Haredown.

Edited by LisaCC

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LisaCC   

"An integral part of core vaccination of puppies is the 'booster' vaccine that has traditionally been given either at 12 months of ageor 12 months after the last of the primary series of puppy vaccines. The main aim of this vaccine is to ensure that a protective immuneresponse develops in any dog that may have failed to respond to any of the vaccines in the primary core series, rather than necessarily'boosting' the immune response. The delivery of this vaccine at 12 months of age is likely to have been chosen historically as a conve-nient time to request the owner to attend the practice for a first annual health check. This therefore implies that should an individualpuppy fail to respond to any of the primary core vaccinations, that puppy may be unprotected until it receives this 12-month vaccine.This might account for occurrences of infectious disease (e.g. canine parvoviral enteritis) in a proportion of vaccinated puppies atless than 12 months of age. The VGG has re-evaluated this practice and now suggests that veterinarians might wish to reduce thispossible window of susceptibility by bringing forward this vaccine from 52 weeks to 26 weeks of age (or indeed at any time pointbetween 26 and 52 weeks of age; however, 26 weeks of age provides a convenient timing). This practice will require that pet ownersclearly understand why this is recommended, because as indicated in Table 5, adopting such a protocol will mean that vaccinationstarted in a 6 or 7 week old puppy, might now entail up to five vaccine visits in the first 6 months of life. For core vaccines, after a 26week 'booster', another core vaccine would not be required for at least another 3 years. This new recommendation for vaccination at6 months of age as an alternative to vaccination at about 1 year of age is certainly not mutually exclusive to, and does not preclude, a1-year or 16-month 'first annual health check'. Many veterinarians are understandably keen to check the animals under their care ataround the time they reach skeletal maturity."

Edited by LisaCC

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Willem   

"An integral part of core vaccination of puppies is the 'booster' vaccine that has traditionally been given either at 12 months of ageor 12 months after the last of the primary series of puppy vaccines. The main aim of this vaccine is to ensure that a protective immuneresponse develops in any dog that may have failed to respond to any of the vaccines in the primary core series, rather than necessarily'boosting' the immune response. The delivery of this vaccine at 12 months of age is likely to have been chosen historically as a conve-nient time to request the owner to attend the practice for a first annual health check. This therefore implies that should an individualpuppy fail to respond to any of the primary core vaccinations, that puppy may be unprotected until it receives this 12-month vaccine.This might account for occurrences of infectious disease (e.g. canine parvoviral enteritis) in a proportion of vaccinated puppies atless than 12 months of age. The VGG has re-evaluated this practice and now suggests that veterinarians might wish to reduce thispossible window of susceptibility by bringing forward this vaccine from 52 weeks to 26 weeks of age (or indeed at any time pointbetween 26 and 52 weeks of age; however, 26 weeks of age provides a convenient timing). This practice will require that pet ownersclearly understand why this is recommended, because as indicated in Table 5, adopting such a protocol will mean that vaccinationstarted in a 6 or 7 week old puppy, might now entail up to five vaccine visits in the first 6 months of life. For core vaccines, after a 26week 'booster', another core vaccine would not be required for at least another 3 years. This new recommendation for vaccination at6 months of age as an alternative to vaccination at about 1 year of age is certainly not mutually exclusive to, and does not preclude, a1-year or 16-month 'first annual health check'. Many veterinarians are understandably keen to check the animals under their care ataround the time they reach skeletal maturity."

The question is whether the above is the best we can do for our dogs (and our wallet) based on science. Why boosters?...because it is not 100% verified that the dog has an active immunity. So instead of doing a relative simple testing that requires only a blood sample from the dog we administer booster vaccinations knowing that there are severe side effects.

If the dog gets the last puppy shot with the age of 16 weeks and older, the likelihood that it will have active immunity is over 95%. Based on these figures only max. 5% would fail the test and would require a booster with subsequent second testing. Such an approach would minimize the health risks associated with over vaccination dramatically.

The financial side: assuming that we administer the booster after the puppy shots and then subsequent boosters every 3 years: that's sums up to 4 x AU$ 90 over 10 years ...x 4.2 mill dogs...that's still a potential 1.5 billion dollar business.

How does it compare to a titer testing approach with significant less side effects?...100% plus additional 5% (for the required second titer test) would have to pay AU$ 264 for the titer test, that's 1.05 x 4.2 mill x AU$ 264...equals approx. 1.16 billon $ over 10 years (it is actually more than 10 years considering lifetime immunity)...plus we have to add the 5% boosters required: 0.05 x 4.2 mill x AU$ 90 equals approx. 19 mill AU$.

Conclusion: such an alternative approach would not only be significant cheaper (20%), but would give the surety of active immunisation and would avoid all the health risks associated with over vaccination. Furthermore, avoiding the health issues linked to over-vaccinations would lead to significant subsequent cost savings...and healthier dogs.

Edited by Willem

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karly101   

Many clinics are following the AVA protocols. There is a reason we vaccinate, in VIC parvo is still rife and there has recently been an outbreak of canine distemper in the ferret society here. I agree that titre tests are a great way to check your dog is protected.

BUT Blood tests are more expensive up front than the vaccine so for a lot of the canine population it is easier just to re-vaccinate at 3 yearly intervals (yearly for canine cough). Also the annual check up is really important - there are so many times health problems are discovered when a dog is just visiting for its vaccinations (I'm referring to the general population, dol owners are probably a lot more in tune with their dogs health).

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Willem   

Many clinics are following the AVA protocols. There is a reason we vaccinate, in VIC parvo is still rife and there has recently been an outbreak of canine distemper in the ferret society here. I agree that titre tests are a great way to check your dog is protected.

BUT Blood tests are more expensive up front than the vaccine so for a lot of the canine population it is easier just to re-vaccinate at 3 yearly intervals (yearly for canine cough). Also the annual check up is really important - there are so many times health problems are discovered when a dog is just visiting for its vaccinations (I'm referring to the general population, dol owners are probably a lot more in tune with their dogs health).

I actually believe that the current AVA guidelines contribute to these outbreaks! There are only 3 possible groups of dogs that can be affected by the viruses:

a) puppies too young to vaccinate and without maternal antibodies,

b) dogs not vaccinated at all - (that's the responsibility of the owners and has nothing to do with guidelines), and

c) dogs that fall into the 5% group of dogs without seroconversion after the puppy shots. (Note: 5% is an approximate figure, based on puppy shots given at the age of 16 weeks and older).

The current AVA guidelines won't prevent the '5% group' from being vulnerable till they get the required booster shot!

The only way to address this issue (vulnerable 5% group) is titer testing after the puppy shots with a subsequent booster shot if they fail the test.

Edited by Willem

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