BittyMooPeeb Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Nessie just failed intermediate for the second time . She has been going well (considering) in class, and has been doing all the exercises OK with me, but once we hit the test, she didn't know basic commands, didn't know me, didn't even know her *name* . By the time we got to the down-stay part of the test (where she declined to either 'down' *or* 'stay') my nerves were shot and I started to get all teary so we left without even finding out how badly we failed I've been considering medication for her timidness - but dont know if I am expecting too much, too soon. Everyone I mention medication to is horrified that I am even thinking about it - but I am really at a loss as to how to continue with her, and am *really* worried that I am cementing her timidness into her character by not improving over time. Does anyone have an idea as to whether it is better to continue to let her be timid until I work out how to train her out of it, or am I putting her at risk of never overcoming her fears by being a bad trainer, and should look at medication to help her?? She was under two yrs old when I got her (Sept last year), so I am scared that my best opportunities to help her overcome her shyness - why she is still youngish - are passing us by) (I hope this make sense - I'm still a bit teary ) BMP ps I have oodles of books on working with timid dogs. Only some of the techniques work with Ness, and even the ones that have worked have only done so to a degree, and I cant seem to improve her any further. (eg strangers can now come to within 2m of her but I havent been able to reduce this to under 2m over the last 6 months). Her *greatest* fear is strangers trying to give her food (which is why a lot of the techniques described in the literature dont work!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyMacRosie Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Hi BMP Nessie was one of the puppy farm dogs wasn't she? That, of course, is going to have a lot to do with it. The main thing I know about timid dogs is that it is best to ignore their timidity and not to re-inforce it by giving them attention for it. It's hard but I believe you just have to treat her like 'normal' and even be a bit 'tough' by just ignoring any silly shyness and leaving her be until she works it out that whatever is frightening her really isn't that scary after all. I am not sure whether medication would help, but perhaps you could consult a vet who also specialises in behavioural issues. She will improve, but she may never overcome it completely. One of my friends has a dog who was extremely fearful and gradually has improved over time. But, he still won't let me approach him for a pat or whatever - I have to wait for him to come up to me. But that is better than not allowing anyone to pat him at all. Interestingly, the best I have ever seen him was during the Canberra bushfires when he first got evacuated to my place, and then in turn when I had to evacuate - I didn't have time for any mucking about, so was quite direct with him about what I wanted from him and he did exactly what he was told and let me put a harness and lead on him for moving out and everything. He showed no fear during that situation I think because I treated him exactly like a brave dog, which he became. If Nessie is doing well at training one-on-one, then I don't think it matters whether she passed the test or not. Being shy may just be one of her 'things'. Dogs do strange things sometimes. Barney is afraid of the vaccuum cleaner. Mac only drinks the outside water. Rosie holds her paw up like it is 'sore' when visitors come. I think you may just have to let her be and see how she goes, while introducing her to as many non threatening social situations as possible. And try not to reward the behaviour by molly-coddling her when she does it. But worth consulting a specialist too, if you are really worried. What, exactly, does she do and is she scared of apart from strangers giving her food? Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 BMP, I remember getting teary the second time Jack failed advanced. Then I just got used to it! In the end, I came to the conclusion that passing or failing means nothing. Nessie was *perfect* at the Million Paws Walk with all those doggies and people! With your patience and gentle nature, she's come a mighty long way. As long as you're enjoying taking her to training, and she's enjoying being there, I wouldn't even bother doing the assessment if it stresses her out so much. Just go to training for the socialisation aspect and for the sake of expanding your knowledge (says me, who hasn't been to training so far this year thanks to long working hours ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparty Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 It could be your nervousness at the assessment that is freaking her out Going into trial situations my dogs would do everything without a problem at training and even at new places but stick US in a ring and at first we fell apart lol relax and dont go in with any expectations lol and rescue remedy .. a drop for her and two or three for YOU!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imy Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Awww... don't get stressed, as long as nessie has manners, it really doesn't matter too much does it? My greyhounds can't 'sit'... its just physically impossible for those two so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't pass beginners! This should make you feel better: My sisters' dog only passed PUPPY school because I taught it to 'speak' using a tin of jellybeans we got for buying heaps of paint.... all the other tricks were useless, she had no idea. The trainer frowned on her because she didn't approve of the 'speak' command. This dog will protect my sisters' toddler with its life. Whenever I bring my dogs around on lead she stands between them and the child. So, I guess it really doesn't matter that she doesn't do any official commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula- Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Hey Imy!!! Radar did pass beginners!!! BMP, Stella has failed intermediate twice - the last time dismally as she also 'forgot' sit, down, stay... everything!! We were atrocious and even had the president of the club come up afterwards and tell us I figured we've improved, so that's something. Back to try again, later in the year, after putting Mintybutt through Kindy. Nessie has had a longer way to go than most, well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imy Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 LOL... not with ME. I'm HOPELESS at training... I can't blame the hounds because I think its me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyWild Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Hi there BMP, i would suggest you go and see a 'traditional' homeopath (either vet or human that also works on animals). I have seen some amazing results with homeopathy in cases like this. Sound like your doing very well, but as you said you have high expectations (or hopes). Just make sure your having fun, doesn't really matter if she doesn't "perform" on the day, as long as your seeing some progress over time. As the others said try to ignore (ie don't molly coddle) when she is acting frightened, just create some distance from the area/thing that is causing fear, when she is behaving normal again then pay some attention. If you ever see her showing interest in things she normal wouldn't, lavish her with praise and treats. Have you tried the throw a treat over her head, then throw down treats in front of you as you back away. Keep doing this until she has improved the distance she is prepared to approach to. This is useful for strangers to do, but is best initially done in an environment where she is not showing signs of stress. The only stressful thing should be the new person, and that is the only thing that you have to contend with in reducing the fear. Hope this helps Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Don't ever feel bad for failing an obedience test. My dog failed a lot to begin with and some people at my obedience school have spent up to a year in each class I don't know a whole lot about timidness problems but as far as medication is concerned, don't ever be afraid to talk to your vet about it. You'll always have people make negative comments about things they don't understand. I've had plenty of raised eyebrows and rude comments from telling the wrong people that my dog takes anti-anxiety meds occasionally but the improvement in his confidence has been astronomiocal and nothing anyone says will make me regret the decision. If you do go down that path, remember isn't not a total solution, rather an aid to go along with positive training. It also doesn't need to be long term, more something to help get over a behavioural "hump". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHRP Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 BittyMooPeeb I think Tim has made a great suggestion. Before trying 'drugs' consider some homeopathic treatment such as Bach Flower Remedies. I used them on a 5 year old bitch that I took on who had some issues. After basically going back to her previous carer 6 weeks after taking her on to let them know I would be returning her, on his suggestion I tried the remedies along with training and she just blossomed. I'd also suggest some rescue remedy for yourself on comp day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imy Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 LOL... I bought some generic (cheap) rescue remedy... that'll be used well when it comes to our first few obedience lessons... not just to calm nerves... but to quell excitement a little too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted May 26, 2006 Author Share Posted May 26, 2006 Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Nessie is pretty flat and jumpy today, so I definately need to look at my own 'behaviour' when I am with her so that I dont pass on any stress. I'm always recommending rescue remedy to people on DOL - I just didnt think of taking my own advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnauzer Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 (edited) "Nessie was one of the puppy farm dogs wasn't she? That, of course, is going to have a lot to do with it." Hi BMP, Wow, I cannot believe that your pf dog is at this level already and you only got her last September. I think you are doing fantastic. My pf girl has taken sooooooo long to trust and become more confident (mind you, she was extremely traumatised). I have had her for 14 months. She will sit on command, drop etc. but also gets worried in a class situation and thinks she will be kicked by all the legs and dogs around her. Time and patience will win through. I personally wouldn't give my dog any drugs (unless medically necessary). Just plenty of praise and rewards. One of my other dogs failed Grade 3 to 4 twice before being successful - it is disappointing at the time, but you just have to persevere. Best of luck. Edited May 26, 2006 by schnauzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 "Nessie was one of the puppy farm dogs wasn't she? That, of course, is going to have a lot to do with it." Yes, Nessie was one of the puppy farm dogs. Thanks for the kind words everyone . I think I built myself up to be 'Super Puppy Farm Dog Trainer' and obviously I'm not , so I will take a few steps back and take it even slower with Ness. She's still more nervous than usual today, which would be due partly to *my* behaviour at the test . I'll need to work on some trust building again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaywoman68 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Hi BMP, You're not a bad trainer!!! Dont think of yourself as one!!! You're a very caring person and you're doing great with Nessie!!!! Orson and Oi passed Beginners and it's only because of heaps and heaps of treats I've been told Intermediate will be harder because we have to go away from lureing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHRP Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I'm always recommending rescue remedy to people on DOL - I just didnt think of taking my own advice ;) There are far more Bach flowers to look into besides rescue remedy. I would try and find some that are specific to Nessies behaviours. I used a variety with Bella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Perry failed Intermediate 4 times - she could do everything perfectly in class after the first course but everytime there was a test they sent someone new and during stand for inspection Perry would always jump up and give them a kiss. I could see we were not going to get any where and I was bored out of my mind with doing it over and over so we gave up. Going to sheepdog school is gradually ironing out the other problems with Perry's behaviour and we are both a lot more relaxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted May 29, 2006 Author Share Posted May 29, 2006 Perry failed Intermediate 4 times - she could do everything perfectly in class after the first course but everytime there was a test they sent someone new and during stand for inspection Perry would always jump up and give them a kiss. you must have a tough test for intermediate. We only have to get a certain amount of points - it doesnt matter if we get 0 for some exercises, as long as the total is enough. I checked our score on Friday .... 5 less than at our first attempt . Lets just say that is was under two thirds of a pass mark ;) There are far more Bach flowers to look into besides rescue remedy. How do you find out what is available, and what is suitable for your dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHRP Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 There are far more Bach flowers to look into besides rescue remedy. How do you find out what is available, and what is suitable for your dog? A quick search on the internet can give you a list of the essences and what each are used for. Here's a link to one http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm Is there a homeopathic vet in Canberra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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