JulesP

Oh dear. My old horse was great for that - Cash used to have a go at getting her to move when he was a pup but she just looked at him with disdain and he gave up Brock did a beautiful cast around the pony the couple of times he has snuck in the paddock when I've left the gate open by accident. Usually when I have been in there trying to catch a naughty yearling. He has really shown no interest in sheep at all. Maybe he knows I don't really 'need' him.

Sounds good Superminty. Paul McP. thought that Brock might be good on cows. He has certainly shown more interest in horse herding then sheepies.

I find it interesting that you have such a negative view of the word 'amateur'. Unless a person has a sheep farm or is training working dogs to sell anyone doing 3 sheep trials, yard trials or ANKC herding is an amateur IMO. Is it ANKC herding you have a problem with? ANKC herding has strict temperature controls. Dogs gets stopped very quickly too if anything looks like going wrong. Most of the trials I have been to the people pull their dogs up before the judge intervenes though. At all the training places i have been to the instructor handles the dog first to see what is going to happen. The owner and dog are only allowed to have a go if it is apparent the dog is ok with the sheep. The sheep get changed regularly and I haven't seen any sheep abuse. Is a Goldie a good breed to do herding with, well no. Didn't feel like saying that on a public forum though and know my instructor will handle it gracefully and in a way that will leave the OP feeling good.

Care to clarify what you mean by amateur?

I train at Nyora. Email Kate on [email protected] I imagine that whether you are allowed to train a non-herding breed would be at the discretion of the trainer. Paul McPhail also does training at Port Welshpool.

Mine did this. Would eat things she really liked but not kibble. She started to eat again when the season finished. Approx 8 weeks later she is not eating again and is nesting. She isn't pregnant so is obviously having some sort of phantom pregnancy/hormone issue.

Well they can but it should be viewed as a fault according to the standard. Why is it like that in the standard? I have no idea. It is one of the things in the standard that I don't agree with.

No it is you that has the chip on their shoulder. If that is not the case why have you reacted so strongly to me just saying the dogs didn't look like the dogs I remember? Again I didn't say anything negative about the dogs.

You know that was not very nice at all. I have not said one rude thing to you and have been very nice. Really Jules I do not care what you believe. But I do want others reading this to know that the working dogs in Australia are not freaks, they are not unrecognizable from their UK brothers. They are well worth a look at if anyone is thinking of getting a working dog or thinking of importing new bloodlines to other places in the world. So on this note I suggest we leave it at that, unless you want to comment any more on the Australian working dogs as in comparison to ISDS dogs from trials you saw as a child. No I am not going to let you get away with that. You spent god knows how long to find a photo so you could accuse me of only liking " pretty long coats flowing in the breeze" so don't be acting all innocent. Who the hell said freaks? Stop putting words into my mouth. Apologies to the OP. I was generally interested in finding out more about a certain type of working BC as I am disenchanted with some things to do with ANKC BC. Might just change breeds instead.

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials. http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials. Yes more like that one. Not quite that old though! Did the 'One Man & his Dog' TV show ever get played here? Go back and look at all the pics of the Uk dogs and web sites of the OZ working dogs again. This dog is the only one you can not see it's body, so structure was not something that influenced your idea this was the correct way the dogs looked when you were a kid. They all had pricked ears, so that was not what did it. They all had pretty much the same markings, nothing out of the ordinary. But there was one thing this dog had that the other dogs did not have. I believe this is why you think this is like the dogs in your memory, it is a very full rough coated. Where as all the dogs in OZ and and all the dogs I showed you from the UK were smooth coated, and none of them looked right to you. Put a rough coat on the same dog and you would have thought it looked right. I assure you that the working dogs in Australia do not look any different from the working dogs in the UK or the working dogs in the US or Canada. There really is truth to the saying that form follows function and this is a good example of that. However almost all working border collies in OZ will have smooth or at least not a lot of coat. Where as in the UK working dogs you can and will see all types of coat. to suit the work or handlers ideas. BTW snow binds to long hair and can cause problems. Which explains why one of the smooth coated dogs I showed was from a very snowy part of Scotland. I think in your minds eye you love the roughs so that is all you remember seeing from your childhood, the pretty long coat flowing in the breeze. That however does not mean that all the dog in the UK had rough coats. About 50% are smooth coated and have been so as long as they have taken photos or done drawings of the breed. I really should have known better then to reply to you. No it was not just the coat. Not all the dogs had pricked ears. I've all ready said that they didn't have a big thick coat like they do now. It is actually a certain shape the stands out in my mind. I hope you are better with dogs then you are with people.

I did laugh that you liked him I found other pics of him showing more feathering then the pics shortstep put up.

Food is supposed to help with other allergies not just food ones. I flicked through a book once that was about this. It had diets to help with non-food related allergies for people. Was interesting.

Ok well how about this one, prior to the Uk standard, 1969 National and 1968 International surpeme Champion. So a dog you could have seen at trials. http://www.spirit-of-sam.de/1968-int-sup-c...n_c1000_800.jpg I am betting this the kind of border collie you saw at the trials. Yes more like that one. Not quite that old though! Did the 'One Man & his Dog' TV show ever get played here?

For a reluctant tugger that likes food you could try combining the 2 at the beginning. So you could look at things like a chicken neck in a sock, soaking a polarfleece tug in chicken stock or clean run sells mesh tuggers that you put food in. The food oozes out when chomped.

The dogs I remember don't look the same as the Australian ANKC border collies either btw.

No I am older then that. The UK KC BC standard wasn't actually in place. Were there some shorter coated dogs? Probably but it was pretty bloody cold were I lived so that may have been a factor. I remember a certain sort of dog. I don't know why you have a problem with that? I didn't say anything negative or that one was wrong. I just said they were different.

You said that working dogs in OZ did not look like working dogs in the UK, No I didn't. Go and read again perhaps. You said Interesting info shortstep. Those dogs on the websites you listed look nothing like the dogs I remember from my childhood in the UK. I used to watch the sheep trials. So were have I said 'working' and I certainly wasn't a child in 2008.

You said that working dogs in OZ did not look like working dogs in the UK, No I didn't. Go and read again perhaps.

Does the ISDS registry want proof of pedigree?

The standards are quite different though. So which standard are are talking about? A short coat is not permitted in the Australian breed standard. Can't say I am a fan of Mirk's look. Sorry Shortstep. Looks too much like a Kelpie of me, which is fine if you are a Kelpie.

Interesting info shortstep. Those dogs on the websites you listed look nothing like the dogs I remember from my childhood in the UK. I used to watch the sheep trials. I really liked Colin Websters dogs that he brought down to Vic the other year for the State trial. To me they looked more like the UK borders that I remember. Do you know what lines he uses?

When I walk down to the front paddock in the mornings to get the paper I have 4 dogs, 3 sheep & a cat with me, the sheep play with the dogs & the cat , so no the dogs don't sit staring Jules . I reckon Poppy would :D

I was just going to let that one go, but you know what, it is an unfair comment and I don't know if you realise that. Honestly, I find it quite rude to not only ignore something I have repeatedly stated ABOUT MYSELF, but to persist in misrepresenting my thoughts on it. : Now you know how annoyed it makes me I'll know next time you do it you're trying to aggravate me. If I was most concerned about degrees I would not have asked here at all, would I? There is no shortage of animal behaviourists with advanced degrees in my life. What is your problem? You said that you liked trainers to have degrees. I found you one that had the qualifications that you like.

Are you being serious, Kelpie-i? Or am I being dull-headed? I haven't heard of that little tip before. Animals don't like putting their widdle paws on double sided tape. Foil works well too for the same reason. I just don't let my borders loose in the house to do what ever they want. They are taught to stay on their beds, or they go in the crate. Sorry but trading the stolen article for a treat is just silly. Borders will realise very quickly that it they pinch something Mummy will come along with a yummy. I prefer not to give them the opportunity in the first place.

I think this started as a good topic. It is interesting to see how people pick a trainer. What criteria they have. 4paws I am going to ask you straight out what your agenda is here? You are a new DOL member. What are you trying to achieve?