huski

A dog finding a correction rewarding??? Cant be doing it properly then Some dogs like attention if even if it's "negative" - the owner returning, engaging with the dog to put it back in the right position etc. If Daisy stuffs up her stays (breaks them or moves/changes position) I give her a NRM and put her back in the right position then reward.

I honestly find my beagle waaaaay higher maintenance

My problem with stays (mainly downs not sit stays) is that Daisy is quick to lose interest. I found releasing and rewarding her when she isn't expecting it helps with this... as soon as she thinks I am being predictable and she knows what is going to happen next she goes 'meh, hey a smellz!'

Micha likes anything that bounces and squeaks He goes nuts for his orbee ball on a rope, just purely because it bounces and it's something he can chase He's never had an isqueak before but I am quite confident that it will be right up his alley!

I don't find my Siberian high maintenance at all, apart from the shedding thing. We have a fully fenced yard so there is never any worry about him getting out or escaping. He's SO calm and gentle, if I let him inside he just wants to sit with us and he'll happily lie with me in the lounge room for hours. If he wants my attention he'll get up and put his head on my lap and look up at me He's quite food and prey driven so is relatively easy to train. He's energetic but I like to have a dog that requires exercise, although I must admit I have been very slack lately and he is not walked every day at the moment. He honestly has the best temperament, he's easy to live with as he's happy to spend time on his own or with our other dogs. He's can be cheeky but I find that endearing. He's super smart and would spend the vast majority of his day sleeping/lying around Life is never boring with a Sibe and I love that

Aww thanks Nic Whenever I've taken Daisy to Kroll, she takes herself off on a little scenting expedition by herself - she's a real Nigel Other dogs? pffft, not when there are smells to be smelt! LOL.

We can still play with and engage our dogs... I play with my dogs everyday

Not really... my dog doesn't find other dogs all that interesting and will rarely play with other dogs, there are many things that she finds more enjoyable and fulfilling. There are SO many things our dogs can get enjoyment from than just playing with other dogs. I could use the same argument for people who don't do dog sports - why not when the dog finds it so enjoyable, aren't their dogs missing out on something great too? In reality many dogs don't do much more than laze around at home and go for the odd walk, that doesn't mean their lives are any less enjoyable or fulfilling than a dog who is trained every day and competes in dog sports and is always being taken out and about - or that the dog that doesn't do any dog sports isn't "happy".

I think with Micha, had it been a one off attack, he might have been ok in the long run - although he was attacked at a critical stage in his development (five months of age) and it happened on a number of occasions from then on over a lengthy period of time. We were told to keep socialising him so he could learn to hold his own with the dogs who would attack or dominate him, this just made his behaviour worse. By the time he starting displaying aggression taking him to the dog park just gave him opportunity to learn aggression was the way to get in first, so the aggression was reinforced. The reason I think Daisy bounced back from her attack last week is because she's three years old and already has a stable view of other dogs. Micha learnt from an early age on more than one occasion that other dogs would attack or dominate him and that they were something to be feared. I've met dogs who were attacked badly as puppies, usually in their first fear period, who then became fear aggressive almost instantly... more "socialisation" at the dog park made them worse not better.

Great video Amps! Kyzer is a real speedy Gonzalez!!

Not just one bad experience... dozens over a four year period (at more than just one dog park). You will find I am not alone in feeling dog parks are accidents waiting to happen. Perhaps it's not so bad if you are at a big dog beach or a large, unfenced dog park but the ones in my area and the majority of the dog parks in Brisbane are small fenced areas where you can get up to dozens of dogs running together in a small enclosed space at one time. I have no choice with one of my dogs - he has lasting behaviourial issues from too many bad experiences at the dog park and taking him to one is only ever an option if it is empty. The only time I set foot near a dog park is at the occasional DOL meet or if they are totally empty. They are not worth the risk IMO. I have a dog who will be dog aggressive forever because of a few "bad experiences" at our local dog park. We don't really have many dog beaches around here - I get nervous taking my dogs anywhere that large numbers of strange, off leash dogs frequent. If I were to take them somewhere like a dog beach I would probably try and go at a time that's likely to be less busy. Unfortunately that's not the case at any of my local dog parks. Fights, attacks, incidents of aggression are not uncommon or rare and happen frequently. Daisy was attacked at obedience club last week and I am hardly going to avoid going down there (have been there twice since it happened already) because I know the likelihood of it happening again is rare. That is not the case at my local dog park. One of the only times I took Daisy into my local dog park, a regular's large dog would not stop humping her and biting her on the neck. He chased her around the park trying to do so, even as I was trying to put her leash on so we could leave. She was obviously not enjoying herself at all because the dog would not leave her alone, irregardless of how many times she'd snap at him for mounting her. The owner didn't give a shit. The owner takes the dog down there almost every day, it's just one example of the kind of people who use our local parks and their complete disregard for their dog's behaviour. Another example of a different dog park also in my area - a man came into the park with a small BC and all the regular dogs immediately flocked to the gate to "greet" it. The poor BC was so scared by the six large dogs crowding over her that she snapped at them to get back. The group of dogs retaliated by attacking her all at once. The owners of the large dogs blamed the owner of the BC for it snapping first (even though it was because their dogs were intimidating her and had zero manners). One of the owners even started kicking the BC as it started trying to defend itself. The poor bloody dog didn't even have a chance to get into the gate before all the "regulars" dogs ripped into her - fights breaking out at the gate of the park is hardly uncommon and something I've seen happen literally dozens of times over the years. Seeing your dog ripped into by other dogs on more than one occasion can do that to an owner. A dog was killed by another dog at our local dog park once, you can bet that woman is hardly going to be comfortable going near them ever again.

How does one develop skills to deal with or prevent a serious dog attack? Sure you can learn how to ready body language to see the warning signs but unfortunately you cannot control the actions of irresponsible or naive dog owners that often frequent dog parks. To give you an example - I had my puppy at the dog park. A woman came in with her rotty. He immediately came up to my puppy and grabbed him by the throat, pinned him to the ground and shook him - it happened in a split second and there was no way to have intervened in time even if the rotty had displayed body language that had set off warning bells. Now I know better, I avoid areas where unknown dogs run free like dog parks because despite being more dog savvy than the average person I still cannot control other owners or their dogs. I agree that we need to get owners in situations where they can learn to read doggy body language more effectively, but I don't think this will happen simply taking your dog to the dog park - owners need someone to educate them and organised socialisation or play date classes run by a professional could be an answer to this. I don't think simply telling people to go to the dog park is the answer. Spend one day at the local dog parks around me and you will agree you have probably never before met so many dog owners with such scary inability to read dog body language.

Megan, sometimes I throw it and sometimes I bounce it on the ground so he can catch it and squeak it.

Would love to see the video. Was he always more interested in toys as a reward rather than food?? My lab also loves squeak toys but he loves food just as much and when we get to an area with lots of dogs he tends to ignore toys, I would rather use a toy than food as a reward though. He's always been very prey driven which is why he goes nuts for squeaky toys. But, he's also quite food driven so I can easily work him with food as well if I want to. I think if I had developed it properly from the time we bought him home as a puppy I could get him working well for a tug toy, but because he'll be eight years old this year and we only train for fun I just use whatever he enjoys most. Micha will happily work for a squeaky toy just about any where. He loves to chase and catch things.

I haven't used an isqueak before, but because Micha is very prey driven but reluctant to tug and he goes nuts for anything squeaky so I often use them in training. So I use squeaky toys as a reward just as you would use food or a tug, by bouncing it and letting him catch it or throwing it and letting him chase it (I know it's naughty but he won't ever be a competition dog so it's ok ). I am happy to do a video of him 'working' for his isqueak when they get here

Micha would definitely be a Male Modahl ala Zoolander. Daisy would be something that involves eating lots of food, constantly, all the time. So maybe a chef? A really hyper active chef. LOL. Cherry would be a police woman.

So... you're saying that you think your dogs obeying you around distractions has nothing to do with how much they value you? That's it's nothing to do with how exciting or rewarding hanging out with you is? I will let you know when I run into a problem with Daisy failing to act appropriately around other dogs Although as I did point out a couple of posts ago, Daisy bounced back very well after being attacked (grabbed by the throat, pinned to the ground and shaken) by another dog the other night, so perhaps I don't need to take her to the dog park every single day and expose her to loads of strange dogs in order for her to have a stable view about other dogs.

See, I look at it like this - I may know the dog I am introducing my dog to, but they haven't met them before, so for my dog it's a 'strange' dog. So my dog can get a new experience by greeting a dog it hasn't met before but because I know the dog, I know it's friendly and stable

OMG the look on their faces!! PMSL ;) Ditto... Micha is going to be beside himself when they get here!!

Where have I said anywhere that I wouldn't let my dogs at some point play with other dogs?? I don't like letting them play with dogs I don't know, I will happily introduce them to dogs I know are stable dogs. If you are happy to let your dogs greet and play with any dog you come across that's fine, but it's not something I am comfortable with.

A lot of people don't :rolleyes: Often, how can you? My pup was a confident, outgoing, happy boy. He was a total star at puppy school and not phased by other dogs in any way. He was sadly at a stage in his development where several attacks and poor behaviour from other dogs had a very negative effect on him.

I didn't say I wouldn't have socialised him - I said I wouldn't have taken him to the dog park to mix with strange dogs. If I hadn't taken him to the dog park to allow him to learn to "cope" with all the different dogs there then he wouldn't have been dominated and attacked on several occasions which is what created his fear aggression. Sometimes, especially if the pup is in their fear period, it only takes one attack from another dog for them to have issues for life. Micha was a confident, happy dog before he was attacked (the first attacked happened when he was around 5 months of age) and had no problems with other dogs until he learnt that they were something to be fearful of and something that he would be threatened by. Apart from his fear aggression, which was a learned behaviour, he has an excellent temperament and is fantastic with dogs he knows. The attack doesn't have to be serious in terms of physical injury - all it takes if for the dog who was attacked to learn that other dogs are going to attack them, dominate them, scare or intimidate them for their confidence and value of other dogs to be affected. Daisy has a very stable view of other dogs and this was driven home for me last week when she was attacked at dog school. She recovered quite quickly and from what I've been able to test so far, has no lasting issues due to the attack. Had she been a young pup/dog in her fear period, or already timid or wary of other dogs or like Micha who is fear aggressive the outcome could have been very different. That play dates may not be as convenient as taking the dogs to the local dog park isn't important (for me) - it is about the level of risk involved. Having a DA dog can be heart breaking, and I will always do everything in my power to ensure I never put my dogs in the same position I put Micha in.

It depends if it is creating issues for you. Is letting your dog build a high value for other dogs impacting on your ability to proof them around other dogs in a training situation? (for example). As I said earlier, I would rather teach my dog straight off the bat that other dogs are nothing to get too excited over rather than teach them that they are super exciting and then have to spend a lot of time training them not to think that down the track. It won't be a problem for some people of course but it is a common problem faced by dog owners at my obedience club. Having a dog who will have lasting behaviourial issues for the rest of his life because I thought letting him run with strange dogs at the dog park and allowing him to learn how to "manage" them and himself was the right thing to do, I will have to respectfully disagree with you on the above I will never take a puppy to a dog park for a free for all ever again. When I have a puppy or young dog again I will do what I did with Daisy and set up play dates with dogs I know are friendly and well balanced. They might not be strange dogs for me, but they will be dogs my pup/dog hasn't met before. I don't think a pup/young dog needs to meet dozens upon dozens of strange dogs to have a stable and balanced view of other dogs and to be able to interact with them appropriately. The last thing I would do with a timid dog would be to take them to a dog park that was full of dogs I didn't know - way too much of a risk for me, but then again, I have seen what can happen when it all goes wrong.

I've not once said that is what I believe in, so apologies if anything I've written has somehow been misconstrued in that way - all dogs need to learn what other dogs are about and how to interact with them. I personally don't think we need to teach them that other dogs are super duper exciting, super high value and the best thing ever. I think a lot of dog owners run into issues when they allow their pups/dogs to develop a higher value for other dogs than they have for their owners. All socialisation means is giving your dog a new experience and assigning it a value, Daisy (for example) learnt as a puppy that other dogs have a positive value because I socialised her with other dogs appropriately at the right age. She doesn't need to keep greeting and playing with strange dogs to keep being a well adjusted dog who has a stable view of other dogs, she isn't going to lose her ability to interact appropriately with other dogs if I don't let her play with them all the time.

But the OP said; I don't see the benefit in taking my youngest dog, who is three years old, was socialised appropriately as a young pup/dog, who has a stable view of other dogs, and letting her play regularly with dogs we don't know Some people enjoy taking their dog to the dog park and what not but it doesn't appeal to me and I don't see the benefit, in fact I see it as a risk. My dogs rarely play with dogs outside our pack, although we see dogs out and about at training etc, apart from DOL meets which I only go to every few months I generally don't make time to let my dogs play with others. I'm not saying we should lock our dogs up and never let them play with others as it's important to let them what other dogs are and how to interact with them but once you have a dog with a stabilised view of other dogs it's hardly going to ruin them if they don't regularly get to play with strange dogs.