huski

I agree with Raineth, I also think it doesn't matter if your dog meet 99 dogs or 101 dogs, by saying 100 Dunbar is just trying to impress that it should be a lot when it comes to socialisation. I look at it from a different approach because I aim for neutralisation not just socialisation, like the topic pinned in this forum. For that reason I wouldn't have lots of strangers giving my puppy treats etc - we all have a different way of approaching it and we all start off with different goals and plans

LOL I'm not even sure about competent handler :laugh: My beagle was never ever reliable off leash, but when we started doing lots of training she improved heaps and without any work on her recall at all, her reliability off leash became very high. I never really did any work on her recall outside of training it as an exercise for obedience. But I wanted that last bit of reliability so that's why we started focusing on her recall outside of training. I have no experience with sheep dogs, but I know with my dog, her reliability with working off leash and around distractions improved when we did a lot of drive work so she learnt how to respond to commands when she was highly aroused (i.e. scenting) and distracted.

LOL Weasels, I am definitely not a dog trainer, it's just a hobby for me (though I do work for a dog trainer). I agree the average owner won't have the knowledge on how to train a reliable recall, though I think if they are given the knowledge on how to do it and are interested in training it, it would be achievable. I had that problem with my beagle, when we were training her recall was impeccable but if I had her off leash and she really got stuck on a scent she literally would not hear my calling her. Her recall was still ok, but not good enough (IMO). Now we've focused on overcoming that issue specifically in training, her recall is far more reliable. If I had a fearful dog I'd be addressing the fear issues specifically first, but I do believe that any dog can have a reliable recall.

I wasn't talking about any dog specifically, I'm just saying, what is the criteria for the perfect recall? IMO you can have perfect recall. My criteria with recall is what I said before (coming the first time every time within two seconds of me giving the command) so that's what we train for.

Dogs are living things and therefor have their own minds and therefor no dog will ever have a perfect recall. Wouldn't that depend on what you consider a perfect recall? If my dog recalls every time on the first command within two seconds of me giving the recall command, under any level of distraction I can proof for, I would consider that pretty perfect.

The OP never said it was aggression Over exuberance to the point of scaring a puppy is not acceptable, nor is aggression. Completely agree.

maybe Daisy has stronger nerves than the average beagle, either way if my dog took ten minutes to get out of its crate like that I would be concerned.

When I've flown my beagle she jumped straight out of the crate and was right into beagle business mode, if I had opened the crate door and she had reacted like those beagles did I would have been worried.

Other than what to buy I'd also think about what your goals are with the puppy and how you want to achieve them. Do you want a well mannered pet or do you want a comp dog or show dog etc, do you have a plan as to how you want to achieve those things? Think about what you are going to do the day you bring your puppy home, how will you show it and teach it how it's life will be? If you are going to crate train do you have a crate training program to teach your puppy the crate is a good and safe place to be? What kind of rules and boundaries will you have - will the puppy be allowed in every room of the house, or will it only be allowed in some rather than others? Will it be allowed on the furniture? Where will it be when you aren't home? etc etc

I agree with this. I want my dogs to be happy, but they are given the things they value on my terms (well most of the time *cough*ninjabeagle*cough*).

Ok to clarify, I wasn't talking about positive vs negative nor did I say anywhere that I'd only use the PR quadrant. You said you weren't trying to teach your dog anything, but that you were trying to stop the behaviour. If we are talking about stopping a dog viewing a cat as a prey item, hitting the dog to stop the behaviour from displaying may appear to work the instant you do it, but it's not actually teaching the dog not to view the cat as prey. It's not changing the dog's emotional response to the trigger (the cat), which is why I would have been surprised if you said the dog had never shown interest in the cat after that. And if you used a combination of other methods to stop your dog chasing the cat, how do you know that hitting him helped to deter the behaviour? Sure training is always a work in process, but if you were go to a trainer, would you continue to use their methods if you didn't see a certain level of results pretty quickly? I wouldn't plug away at something that didn't work or get the results I wanted. Regardless of the method I use, I want to see that it is working. The other thing I would consider (and something even I see pretty often) is that when people use physical corrections like smacking their dog to diminish drive this can work sometimes to stop the dog displaying drive around the handler, but it's not likely to stop the dog from displaying drive away from the handler.

:laugh:

Did smacking him stop the behaviour completely though? I mean did it happen again? If the dog has decent prey drive smacking him is not going to stop him seeing the cat as a prey item. Depending on the level of prey drive he has, he may just stop doing it around you (if at all). I think many people have a different idea of what it means to say something 'works', too.

But what is the point giving a dog a correction when it's highly aroused like that and has passed it's threshold? There is no point correcting the dog at that stage, it won't learn anything.

I think for the money it costs unless you were a really hard core CM fan and wanted to see him for the purpose of seeing him I wouldn't personally bother. I go to loads of seminars and workshops and I spend a fair amount of money doing so, but CM's seminars just don't appeal to me.

I don't see the point or benefit in having my dogs develop a high value for one another. I'm not interested in it, I'd rather they see all the best rewards as coming from me, regardless of if I have a sport or 'pet only' dog. In terms of choosing the right tug, that depends on what tug would be most suitable for your dog. The synthetic tugs for example are very tough but wouldn't be suitable for most dogs unless you had one that had a very hard bite and you had trouble getting the dog to release. The french linen and leather ones hold up pretty well, in fact I was just talking to a friend today whose leather tug was still going strong after 12 months and she uses it to train prey drive work on a pretty high drive dog every day.

We have a huge tug range and they are very hard wearing http://www.k9pro.com.au/categories/Tugs/ Personally I don't encourage my dogs to play together particularly with toys, just not something I see a point in.

Wow I'm really gobsmacked at the number of people who think it's ok to hit their dogs. In an emergency situation i.e. a dog was attacking me or one of my dogs - sure I'd happily kick or hit it to get it off my dogs but aside from that I cannot fathom why you'd want to hit your dog. I'm an instructor at my local obedience club and recently had words with a member who thought it was ok to smack his dog in the face multiple times. There is NO REASON for it whatsoever.

I'll have to get onto that soon. We have a seminar coming up in a couple of weeks so hopefully someone with a decent video camera will be there. YAY! Can't wait!! I bet she is awesome fun to train

She's so cute SK!! So where is her first training video?? I wanna see the maligator in action! :D

Totally agree Aidan TheCoat... didn't take long for you to pop your head up again

Woohoo!

Yes, of course drive does not only present in the dog's desire to chase a toy. I see a lot of dogs that will go nuts for live prey but won't show drive for a toy. I have a scent hound so I know what it's like to have a dog who will display a relatively high amount of drive outside of food or chasing a toy. I certainly said no where nor did I give any examples that was what I was referring to when I mentioned people who have moderately driven dogs that they think are high drive. I also said no where that high drive = prey drive. I think people have different ideas of what they consider 'high drive' to mean and the term can be thrown around a lot when it's not necessarily accurate. Do you have any examples of your dogs working Nek or videos of dogs demonstrating what you would consider high drive?

Definitely! And depending on the training method (like anything) if you have a high drive dog, training can either be easy or near impossible. Personally I'd be bored if I had a low drive dog, I wouldn't enjoy it. Someone like my mum however is far better off with a moderately driven dog. I also agree with others who have said there is a difference between an energetic dog, and a dog with high drive.

And with someone who knows what they are doing, the dog won't trigger like that off the sight of the prey item anyway.