huski

Agree with Pers

I would see how eager he is to play and be around you, I would also see how confident he is around you as a stranger to him, how eager he is to tug (and tug and tug and tug), how food driven he is. And then once you test that in his home environment take him somewhere new or unfamiliar to him and see if he's still just as eager to play there too.

Oh RL I am so sorry, that is heartbreaking

I think you can run into problems no matter what 'method' you try because ultimately as I am sure we all agree there is no one size fits all training program. When I started training my beagle the methods I used were the ones I was taught at a obedience club, she was worked on a check chain and it was pretty physical correction heavy. It didn't work for my dog and the main response I would get if something didn't work would be to correct her harder. While she's not a high drive dog IMO, she's not a very soft dog either. The people who knew us 'back then' tell me now that watching us in class was like I was fighting her the whole way - and we did use food rewards in class as well as corrections but she had little to no interest in them. It wasn't that using physical corrections is wrong, or aren't beneficial when used properly, but just like food rewards they have to be used in the right way. I don't use physical corrections at all really when we're training now and even though I still use food I'm using it differently to how I used to use it. And even though I don't use physical corrections anymore I don't think of myself as a 'positive only' trainer or whatever - I just use whatever works to get the best out of my dog. ETA: I've started instructing at the same obedience club now, and even within the four years since I first became a member, there is a stronger move away from being so heavy on physical corrections. Some people are still over the top IMO in how they use corrections but I don't think that style of training will last. I think clubs have to become more progressive in the methods they use or they won't survive.

Is that why you are doing DWD Tony??? Now just to remember I should drink AT trials, not before Uh oh, my dog does not have much speed, what's my excuse? :D

My lack of coordination is one thing that stopped me doing agility for a long time, I am a quite sure we will stack it big time if (when) we ever trial. Daisy will be out for another few weeks though from the looks of it though

Whose on your table? People the cool kids table I don't think so, ~*Shell*~ and my table is the cool table

Whose on your table?

Corvus do you mean you treat for every command or do you mean you always reward at some point during a training session?

Great work Chloe and Peppi

No, definitely not a requirement. I am looking at getting a puppy from working lines and none of the breeders I've looked at show their dogs.

I love Sibes and Beagles and will definitely have more of them again but I think the next one will be field bred English Springer Spaniel.

So sorry to hear this Henri He was such a handsome dog. I don't have any advice, I just want you to know I am thinking of you

PMSL JulesP!! That is one thing I try never to do, use my dogs breed as an excuse for x y and z. She has beaten borders before though

I'm not saying the methods used will be exactly the same, but what I have learnt from having my dog and training her has given me so much that will assist with any dog I own or train. I wouldn't even know about drive if it wasn't for my beagle, that knowledge is something I can use with the next dog I get. You said that handlers with lower drive dogs get nothing out of training that dog apart from learning they should get a higher drive dog next time. I personally think that's bullshit. Compared to other beagles she would be one of if not the most driviest I've met, not just for food, but scent wise for sure. She has a very high instinct to scent so in that regard she probably isn't low drive (for the breed). Thanks that's very nice of you A high drive dog is only more suitable and easier to train IF the right methods are used. You basically said if the dog isn't a super high drive dog, don't bother training it for competition. Realistically, if only owners with WL high drive dogs competed we'd cut a massive number of competitors out of dog sports. I see people competing with dogs that aren't high drive all the time and you know what - a lot of them are thrilled with how their dogs work. They have no desire to live with or train a super high drive dog. Yet they still train and compete with a dog that isn't super high drive and have a great time. I also agree totally with what Vickie has said in her posts - there are dogs that owners may think are low drive that have a lot more potential with the right training methods than the owners realise. If we only bother training high drive dogs a lot of dogs that could do well if trained the right way would be written off entirely. Ok, thanks. Just curious because watching the other videos of the dog it doesn't seem that extreme in it's drive. I mean, even my beagle has faster sits and downs. JMO.

Kavik I totally know where you are coming from but IMO there is a big gap between Diesels level of drive and a high drive WL dog that Kristov is referring too. My dog was bought as a pet, she was definitely not bred for obedience competition in fact on paper she is the opposite of ideal. She is everything Kristov is saying to write off and not bother with. Yet we still manage to get by ok and I get so much joy out of training her it blows me away to hear others think I shouldn't bother with her.

Well I'm a novice trainer and I have heaps of fun training my low drive dog, I find it very enjoyable. I don't think having a high drive dog alone is enough to make training enjoyable for a handler - I know plenty of people who would be absolutely miserable training a truly high drive dog. I know novice and even experience handlers with high drive dogs who struggle with them and don't find training them fun. They struggle to get results with them. In some cases it can be like handing a leaner driver the keys to a porche before theyve learnt how to drive in the first place - it is a great car to drive if you know how to handle it. I think a lot of dogs get written off far too easily. At the end of the day it's easy to tell someone they "should" get a higher drive dog but what is the point if that's not what they have? If I told everyone who came through our club wanting to train and/or compete with their dog not to bother because their dog isn't high drive enough we'd have hardly any members. Out of curiousity - was the GSD in the vid you linked to yours?

I get what you are saying Kavik but the way I read Kristov's post came across that no one should waste their time on anything but a "highly driven dog".

Same here TSD I STILL get asked that question now. I have had people come up to me at trials and congratulate me just for showing up once they've seen the dog I have at the end of the leash. Besides which, high drive dogs are only good to train if you are using the right methods. There are plenty of top triallers who would struggle training a high drive dog because they still use old school methods that wouldn't work on a very driven dog.

And further to my post above, sometimes you just have to work with what you've given. I can't have another dog right now so why not put my time and effort into training the one I have so I can develop my skills and learn from her? And yes, I've learnt plenty more than just "get a high drive dog next time". Training and competing with my current dog - who plenty of people told me not to bother with - has made me a better dog trainer in SO many ways and my next dog (that will hopefully be a higher drive dog) will undoubtedly benefit from the knowledge and skills I have gained from training the dog I have now.

Agree with this So basically, those of us who don't have a high drive dog should just give up without even trying to get the best out of our dogs? Why even bother in the first place? Gee, I've wasted a lot of my time, then. Competing is not just about winning (I know, I can't believe I just said that either). I am more than happy not to win when I compete as long as my dog goes out and does the best work she is capable of doing. That is still a win for me.

Lottie is awesome Beth! She has more than enough potential to compete and so do you

I wanted to go, but spent the money going to Melbourne in a couple of weeks for the MDBA awards instead. Bugger that I missed it.

I totally agree that it can depend hugely on methods used too. I don't see many high drive dogs competing in obedience but by the same token, my beagle who has moderate drive will go out and work better than and even beat GSDs, BCs, labs etc - working breeds and the dogs themselves are by no means lacking in drive or have less drive than Daisy, they've just been trained not to exhibit drive for whatever reason (usually because they've been trained with old school methods).

Agreed - I see a big difference between the two.