Steve

Given that there appears to be many more being bred from those other than ANKC registered breeders - who only bred 375 of them Austalia wide in 2010 - it appears to me to be something that really is simply side stepping the issue if we want to start saying its not us its them. It is them but it is also us. How many of the 375 puppies born via ANKC breeders last year had to have a face lift, had eye damage, had [specifically] entropian surgery, suffered from Shar Pei fever? Looking at stats is going to give different views - example we know there is a registered breeder in one state who pumps out lots of litters and doesnt want their dogs back so rescue may see more registered dogs being dumped there - that doesnt really tell as story about much more than one breeder in one locality and if all other registered Shar Pei breeders only have a litter a year and she is having 10 with only 375 being born all over Australia the figures tell a different story. The breed standard was changed in Australia in 2009 to say that excess BODY wrinkles was undesirable and that may help but is a registered breeder who has no interest in how the dog looks going to make any effort to ensure they breed adult dogs with less wrinkles ? Its complicated and it sucks that if there are one or two registered breeders who breed lots of dogs and lots of them have problems that the group they belong to have to wear the rap BUT I guarantee that Jenny and Trevor Crisp GABLEHAUS are raising the bar and doing everything they possibly can to ensure they breed healthy Shar Pei, that they do take responsibility for the dogs they breed and work their hearts out to be sure that future generations are healthier. I know they are part of the solution and the more information they have the better their chances of a positive outcome for their breed. The letter from Dogs Queensland tells them to select dogs for breeding which do not have small eyes where possible or at least to mate a dog with small eyes to a dog with larger eyes and over time that should help. Finding out EXACTLY how bad it may be or how many of which group are bred which suffer because of how they have been selected is in my opinion impossible for a variety of reasons. However, no group has a get out of jail free ticket and everyone regardless of which group they belong to needs to consider how their goals and decisions make dogs suffer when they shouldnt be and take responsibility and clean up their act.

The health survey is still open and information is collected every day.

It is still legal to eat dogs in some states in Australia - as long as you dont cut their tails off before you kill them.

O.K. Here is the problem. Statistics suck especially in the purebred dog world because it all depends on people telling the truth, where you gather the figures from and what group you may be isolating. For example one rescue group tells us that about 1 in 3 of the dogs that they see come through their doors are from registered breeders and that 9 out of 10 out of all dogs require surgery. I have been told by another involved heavily in Shar Pei rescue that their stats support this also. There is no doubt for me that Jenny and Trevor Crisp are the best Shar Pei breeders in the country and I would expect that any stats from them would be much lower and that they are doing all they can to reduce the incidence in the breed. If their stats come from other registered breeders as well as themselves I have no confidence that this data is reliable. However, thats only a snap shot of it all anyway and there are many breeders in the mix from all groups and we see a letter from Dogs Queensland signed by JR Harrison dated February 8th 2011 which says Quote 'In accordance with 8.2 of the National Canine Health and welfare committee March 2010 meeting minutes we ask Member bodies to write to all of their Shar Pei breeders seeking their feed back on what they are doing in relation to the high incidence of entropian in the breed" 'And Quote "Removing all dogs with entropian from the breed will not work as the numbers are too high." So lets all just agree that lots of them are affected by a genetic disorder and work out what can be done about it. Talking about it and admitting that there is a problem in any breed is not politically correct but like it or not there is no denying that a high incidence of these problems occur in this breed and we may want to haggle over the actual statistics - are they higher than or lower than one group has gathered - which group is more responsible for the high incidence etc there is no longer any way of denying that there is an issue here which needs to be dealt with. I agree there is no need for emotionalism and further laws or regulations is not gong to do anything to help. I will pull on my flame suit and say to that end that we have done a couple of years worth of research and we have a discussion paper and suggestions for a way forward. Full article available here on my blog and you will notice all groups of breeders are discussed and the role they play in the issue. The Way Forward. If we are to prevent dogs suffering and consider the future of an entire breed we need to take action now. We no longer have the luxury of blaming each other, keeping secrets, remaining complacent or remaining ignorant. We now need to join forces, share resources and work together for the betterment of this breed. We need to select animals for breeding which do not have conformation issues which will put future generations at risk of poor health and suffering. We need to select animals for breeding which have less risk of producing sick or poor temperamented off spring in future generations. Breeding Healthy Shar Pei Consistently producing healthy pups with sound temperament is the hallmark of a responsible breeder. Every Shar Pei breeder has to accept responsibility for the part they have played in this breed's evolution. They must honestly look at their contribution, both the good and the bad, and they must decide what part they will play in the breed's future. They must examine their current breeding practices and change any that are not in the best interest of the individual dog in terms of health and temperament or that are not the best for the future of the breed. It is the responsibility of us all to become more knowledgeable about our dogs and make good decisions for them and our breeds rather than simply following current conventions or blindly chasing a goal. We must look at what we are compromising on to meet our goals because if we are damaging individual dogs or the breed then this is completely unacceptable to anyone who truly loves dogs. Every single breeder needs to ask what they are doing to reduce the incidence of canine health issues and we need to ensure that breeds are being bred in line with what the originators of the breed had in mind with regards to purpose, performance, type, health and longevity. We need to shake off the idea that problems must be kept quiet and not be shared because if we keep doing this we will not be able to help this or any other breed. We need to enable all breeders to have better knowledge tools and resources to profile a pedigree and track all health and temperament issues as well as how the dog and its ancestors faired in the show ring or other formal dog activities. Why the pedigree system is so important Being able to categorically state the ancestry of any dog is still the best tool any breeder has for selecting the best and healthiest dogs to use for breeding and to make informed decisions and determine risk factors for the potential offspring. The Master Dog Breeders and Associates believed the pedigree system could be further enhanced as a selection tool for breeding purposes so we developed a pedigree system which records all the pedigree information as well as health, temperament, conformation and all dog obedience and sporting achievements such as agility, trialing, schutzhund etc. Anyone who has a purebred with a registered pedigree with any registry we recognise whether that be limited or main register papers is able to enter their animal's details with us with the appropriate documentation. This means pet owners with limited registered dogs, rescues who accept dogs with registered pedigrees and purebred dog breeders are able to provide this information and for it to be entered onto our database which will then enable the information to be used when breeders are proofing their pedigrees. There is no cost for entering this information with us and it is not necessary for anyone to be a member of the MDBA to do so. This as an opportunity for us to gather information which breeders are reluctant to share or don't know. If we only gather information from our members when our members add this information as part of the stud pedigree registration process then there will inevitably be gaps a mile wide in the information we collect . What we are aiming for is as much verified information pertinent to the whole dog being accessible and visible to our breeder members in their pedigrees to better enable them to estimate breeding values in the dogs they are selecting for breeding. Hopefully, in the not too distant future our breeder members will be able to access this information on one piece of paper, the dog's pedigree, knowing it is accurate and breed consistently better dogs with science and not just luck. It is important to note that providing this information into our pedigrees does not register the dog nor give the owner or their dog any benefit. We are undertaking this initiative for the greater good of the breeds in the hope that we can play a small part in helping breeds to move forward.

http://www.wvc.vetsuite.com/Templates/Cont...b2-dacf3d13cb30

Yes thats right but that doesnt make it O.K. in any breed regardless of whether the cause is the same for all of them or not. I'm not saying it is but saying the wrinkles cause the entropion is incorrect. It may exacerbate it but plenty of breeds that don't have wrinkles have entropion issues. I dont think that any one is saying that the wrinkles cause the entropian - the size of the eye and shape etc are in there too but wrinkles contribute to and exacerbate this condition in this breed just as various things contribute to the problem in other breeds. either way its un acceptable to breed dogs which are getting this many dogs affected with any genetic condition without taking steps to stop it rather than simply pinning and tucking it before it damages the eye too much.

Yes thats right but that doesnt make it O.K. in any breed regardless of whether the cause is the same for all of them or not.

Dogs eat rubbish

Yep they arent pets stolen from people they are deliberately bred for the dinner table in Chinese puppy farms. Why would they bother with spotting pets and stealing them - worrying about being caught etc when all they have to do is have dogs like this that have around 2 dozen puppies a year per bitch - thats better than sheep breeding where you only get 2 drops a year and at best twins each time. Leg of dog is around the same size as leg of lamb.

Yep I pick em wet - always double check and keep an eye on them of course but Im rarely wrong and my pick is usually the same at 6 months at it is at 6 minutes.

I wouldnt think so. According to Dogs Queensland the problem is caused by selecting for small eyes - no mention of the wrinkles. More wrinkles is also associated with more incidence of Shar Pei fever.

The MDBA survey backs up the fact that there are more Shar Pei - lots more with eye problems than with out eye problems. Dogs Queensland have also acknowledged that there is a very high incidence in the breed.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news...2-1226040642804 ROLY poly designer dogs are undergoing radical facelifts to remove their deliberately bred folds of floppy flesh. Almost all shar pei bred in Australia are forced to have plastic surgery to save their sight. More than eight out of 10 of the distinctive dogs suffers eye deformities that require going under the knife for a nip and tuck. But owners who pay up to $2500 for one of the designer pups are instead dumping the animals at alarming rates when they discover they have to fork out another $2000 for their pet to have the saggy skin tightened around their eyes. While other animal breeds suffer genetic conditions needing surgical correction, none is beset with the high rate of eye disorders that afflict the shar pei. Retired Melbourne grandmother Amanda Booth is using her life savings to pay $15,000 a year to rescue and re-home as many of the dumped dogs as possible. President of the Shar Pei Rescue Inc group which she established three years ago, Ms Booth said hundreds more dogs were put down and she blamed greedy breeders. "Some breeders are simply failing in their duty to warn prospective owners of some of the veterinary and personality problems associated with the ancient Chinese breed," Ms Booth said. Vet Scot Plummer from the South Eastern Animal Hospital said heavy skin on their head forces a shar pei's eyelids to turn in, causing their eyelashes to scratch their cornea, leading to blindness. He performs 50 entropion surgical procedures on the rescued dogs in which he cuts skin from the eyes to give a dog the appearance of having had a nip and tuck. Ms Booth wants new laws to try to breed out dogs whose litters require entropion surgery. Queensland sister and brother Rumple and Stiltskin underwent the surgery last week after being surrendered at 16 months. They are recovering with Ms Booth until they are adopted.

I had two beagle bitches once which were the absolute apple of the owners eye. Then 18 months later I got an email. Dogs will be at Wagga Airport on this day at this time please pick them up and thank you for all you have done but since they have been desexed they have been fighting and we dont want them any more. I picked them up - all papers were attached to the crates and I have never ever to this day heard a single word from them. Ive never sent two beagles home together since. there was no symptom of a problem and they were both rehomed to great families separately. I also had a Maremma baby - going to a goat farm for work. The new owners stayed at my house for 5 hours with me chatting with them and meeting the parents etc on Friday and they seemed like great buyers for a working dog. Monday morning phone call they have stopped the cheque because the pup ran away.Wednesday a letter telling me in writing that the fact the pup had run away from the goats was evidence it wasnt suitable for the purpose it had been purchased and they werent paying and couldnt give it back. 'he had run into the forest and they were baiting so was probably dead anyway'. I had my legal people write them a letter - the money or the dog. About 2 weeks later they turned up at my house and literally threw the dog over the front fence. It had a huge gash on its front leg - infected and rope burn around its neck. thank god they bought it back and it didnt have to stay with them. Another Maremma went to a pet home - for 2 years it was the perfect dog for the family and then they moved to a place which had horses running in the paddock behind them. The dog started barking - owner wasnt interested in listening to anything I had to tell her - how to introduce the dog to the horses etc and demanded twice the money back for it that she paid. Her thought process was that she paid $1000 and had fed it and looked after it and it was now old enough to breed so it was therefore more valuable. I found it a new home but she wouldnt let it go for the $500 teh new family had to offer for it and was definite it was gong to be double the purchase price or she would 'rather put it down.' God I suffered over this one. If it had been up to me I probably would have paid the money but hubby said he would divorce me if I did so I suffered it out. I think it was all a bluff because when she worked out I definitely wouldnt pay her the amount she was asking her mother supposedly came good with the money and the dog went to live with her so the kids could still visit with it. Human nature is a very strange animal.

However, just because it is capable of doing well in the ring doesnt make it suitable for breeding either. Maybe Mystiqview only puts into the ring what she would happy to use in a breeding program? I know that is the case with me Yep thats great but you guys have a fairly decent sized gene pool and not that many real big deals to have to work with. You also clearly have as a big thing on you list of priorities sucess in the show ring - not every one has the same goals in their breeding program. All things are not equal in all breeds.

However, just because it is capable of doing well in the ring doesnt make it suitable for breeding either.

Well I wont co own and would much prefer to pay a little more in order to won it myself and allow the person buying to own it too. Point is there isnt any right or wrong answer. What I do suits me.

Look Im the lady who handles complaints and enquiries when people who buy puppies feel the breeder has sold them a lemon.I promise you that if someone buys a pup on main register they have and should have different expectations on what that means. If someone comes to me - experienced show breeder or other wise who would like to purchase a pup which will one day be able to be used for breeding and at the very minumum do no harm to the breed then Im looking at that pup with a different set of criteria Im choosing from. Now all of us are pretty confident that when we sell a pup which is a potential champion we cant guarantee thats what anyone is going to get but in my opinion I do need to be pretty sure the pup I sell someone for breeding has a high chance of being able to reproduce puppies without risk of a C section, with out worries of recesive disorders or polygenic issues turning up without any conformation issues either inthat pup or the ancestry which would affect the ability for it to be used for breeding. No matter how experienced the breeder is I can and do still fill in many gaps and spend hours chatting about pedigrees and potential mates etc. For those less experienced I work with them and help and advise them in a completely different way to what I do with a pet puppy buyer and they receive a different package [ in writing]. Selling a main register pup doesnt just carry with it the need for a different guarantee its a huge responsibility for any breeder and whether or not it may or may not win in the ring is only one part of it all. It has to be judged by what it will bring to the breed gene pool and not just how it looks. Here's a small example. If I got a single pup in a litter which develops say - cherry eye/heart murmur etc but could be any number of things - no pup in that litter would go out with main register papers and no pup from either that mother or that father would ever go out on main register no matter how much show potential they had. Every one of those puppies can look the part and be perfectly good pets and be used for the purpose for which it is purchased but any one may also carry a recessive gene which in my opinion would make it unsuitable for the purpose for which it is purchased. It may do well and pass the grade in the ring but it may also do harm to the breed and therefore it does not get main papers. No bitch pup from a C section litter will ever go out with breeding papers. Then lets look at colour. There are two spearate issues here - one from a pet buyers view and one from a breeders view. As pet buyers we can all have a look at a breed and decide which colour we would prefer to own because it appeals to us visually more. I like tri coloured beagles more than I like tan and white beagles and I would pay more money if I could afford it for a tri coloured beagle over a tan and white if all else was equal. Is this something I should feel bad about or pretend isnt true? Tri coloured beagles are not only more beautiful and more cute to me but they are also more beautiful and more cute to most people who are buying a beagle. I happen to like the look of a tri coloured beagle with its eyeliner and black nose more than I do the others and given all things being equal I would choose the tri dog over a tan and white any day of the week. Supply and demand. I think my puppies are worth 10 times what I sell them for but I can only sell them for that if someone else agrees with my valuation and is prepared to pay for it. I can think my tan and white pups are worth as much as my tri colour pups but that doesnt do much for anything if no one agrees with me and all the tri pups are living in nice homes and not the tan and whites because the peopel buying them see them as being worth less. So am I to lower the price of all of my puppies in order to be sure I will sell them all in a reasonable time frame ? How does that help? The tri coloured puppies will still go home first. I have less return to cover my expenses and Im still looking at the tan and white puppies. So if offer my puppies at a usual asking price and Ive got the tan and whites who pet buyers will look twice at if they better fit their budget - how am I doing something so terribly wrong ? Then from the breeding prospective. I have 3 tan and white bitches here which make beautiful tri coloured puppies if I mate them with a tri coloured dog with no tan and white gene. I have them for breeding because they are the best choice for my breeding program with fantastic conformation and no genetic time bombs [i hope] I bred two of them and had choices to take a tri bitch rather than a tan and white bitch and chose the tan and white ones. The other I purchased from another breeder and I had choice of tri or this bitch and took the tan and white. Given the choice I will go for a tri boy with no tan and white gene to mate them with but I would use a tan and white boy in a heartbeat if he was more capapble of bringing something in which a tri boy couldnt. I would keep a tan and white for breeding but I would also consider selling the litter of tan and whites for les than I do my tri colour puppies - not because I see them as less valuable but because the people who are shopping for a pet puppy do. There is no doubt that breeders who are that way inclined may and do decide to breed only for colour and not consider anything else but why do we all have to be accountable and responsible for what someone else does. I sometimes discount tan and white puppies because they are not as easy to find homes for just as any other breeder may consider lowering the price when the pup gets older and hasnt sold yet . I see whats happened to blue staffies and I agree its terrible because they are selecting for colour and nothing else but selecting for ANYTHING including a champion and nothing else is every bit as bad for the breed and a lot of this is how you look at it. Do you expect people to lower the prices of all their pups to be sure one isnt seen to be more valuable when in fact one is still more valuable because more people want it? You cant beat basic economics and price fixing isnt the answer. You do what suits you based on your goals and your breed and circumstances and there will be breeders regardless of what their goal is for the litter whether that be a working dog, show dog, colour or anything else who will go after that and not consider the compromises they are making but to automatically assume a breeder is doing the wrong thing because they have different prices on different pups and different services they offer is in my opinion too heavily focused on only one part of what it should be all about. to deleiberately make decisions - not based on what is best for the puppies in your yard but in case soemoen thinks there is bigger money in breeding for colour isnt going to take us far. They will still see the supply and demand and if they are that way motivated still go that way. I think what my buyers get when they take a main registered pup from me is worth more than what they get with a pup with limited register to the future of the breed. I want them to know that and feel that and get why its such a huge responsibility for anyone selling a main register pup before they get to that themselves and charging $200 more is how it works for me.

http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/story...de-rockhampton/ DR Tania Signal suspects there are a fair few “crazy cat ladies” out there. The CQUniversity senior lecturer in psychology looks at the link between the deliberate harm of animals and anti-social behaviour and has just released research into animal hoarders. She presented her research, commissioned by the Department of Biosecurity, at the CQUniversity showcase last week. While animal hoarding had received attention within psychology, the causes of it were relatively unknown, she said. She defined hoarders as having a compulsive need to “obtain and control animals, coupled with a failure to recognise their suffering”. Often this was manifested in a filthy living environment with a powerful stench emanating from numerous cages filled with dogs and cats. Dr Signal gave the example of a house in Mt Morgan where the authorities found 87 dogs, 100 cats and a couple of goats inside. However, most hoarders did not start out with the intention of being cruel to animals. She says it's an under-recognised problem where it's “very hard to get access to the people doing the hoarding”. She contends that while animal hoarding is viewed as an “animal welfare problem,” the people doing the hoarding are not getting access to the psychological help they need. She said often a local council intervenes because people complain about “a smell coming from next door”. But when the council intervenes, the needs of the hoarder are often ignored, she said. That leads to a high recidivism rate of almost 100% where the hoarders simply move to another isolated community and start hoarding again. Dr Signal said there were three types of hoarders. The overwhelmed caregiver who lets the number of animals get “out of control”. The second type is the rescue hoarder who believes he/she is the only one who can provide care for the animals and has a mission leading to “unavoidable compulsion”. The last and most dangerous type is the exploiter/hoarder who has sociopathic tendencies, lacks empathy for people or animals and rejects the concerns of outsiders. Dr Signal said often hoarders had dependants they were looking after as well as animals so their behaviour affected other people. She said there was a financial cost to dealing with the problem. One hoarding case in southern Queensland had cost the RSPCA more than the entire cost of dealing with the Hendra outbreak. This was because of the cost of prosecuting people as well as looking after deprived animals. Dr Signal said the problem was more widespread than people thought with research indicating animals were involved in one-third of all compulsive hoarding cases. PROFILE OF AN ANIMAL HOARDER Definition: someone who has a compulsive need to control animals while failing to recognise their suffering 76% are female 46% are 60 years of age or older Most are unmarried Dead or sick animals were discovered in 80% of reported cases

Oh come on. If one colour doesnt sell as easily as another and is in less demand why would a breeder be so terrible if they sold one colour at one price and another higher or lower ? I sell my main register pups for a higher price than the limited register pups because I do a hell of a lot more work with the owners of main register dogs and you have to consider more things in a guarantee. there are lots of things which can turn up which dont impact on the dog's ability to reproduce than there are on its suitability as a pet.

Yep thats sort of what we are doing with Pacers and the more the word gets out about us and what we are doing the more the demand grows every day. We get calls for help every day including the middle of the night and week ends and its across the board with calls coming from all states. The incidence is higher during a time of natural disaster but its pretty steady with up to a dozen a day. Some of the stories break your heart and its pretty full on but we have really been able to make a difference to a lot of people and their pets and Im more sure than ever that this is a very much needed service. The people who have helped us by volunteeering their time and homes, services etc have been awesome and that side of it grows every day too. Makes me feel very priviledged to be helping to put the foundations together of something that will be standing and helping people long after Im gone.

The Townswille one and the Canberra one are now sorted - thanks to an angel in Townsville and Diva in the ACT Yet another one today -Robina - Gold Coast this time and again we need someone who will help with exercise for a cattle dog - adult and a pup. Owner is currently seeing an oncologist to determine what treatment options are available to her and what her prognosis is after her cancer has returned after a 5 year remission. While she is undergoing tests and treatment she is having to leave the pup, and her other cattle dog, at home and neither is getting the exercise they need. She doesn't want to surrender either dog as she adores them both and they will be such a huge support to her while she is going through what is to come. Is anyone available who might be able to help with exercising the dogs or taking them on outings, or even helping us with financial support so that we can pay someone to go and do this for her for a short time?

I have some My Dog tin food at home (a new deaf/disable neighbour is completely and totally in loves Charlie, saw that the dog food was on special and bought them a lot of them.. I didn't have the heart to tell her that my 2 don't eat tin dog food) that I can donate. I'll see if I have some spare coats and blankets to donate too. Just sent me the details :D Thank You will need you to call so I can record your details etc for insurance. 0269276707 Julie

Thats a good idea - Ill get back on it.

Consider finding a link with some local service in Townsville? For example, Townsville Hospital has an associated Pastoral Support Team, made up of volunteers from local churches. They visit patients in their homes, offering help & support. And might also have connections to youth groups. Thanks Mita - This request came to us through a service like this and we are waiting on call back from another group too. This one is a dogz member too. :D