Steve

I don't think it is so much a lack of common sense more a complete disregard for other people - the "its all about me" is so prevelant that these morons truly don't think that there is a problem. If they want to do something and it irritates / inconveniences / harms other people they just shrug their shoulders. Rant over :laugh: Its not only that its like some parents who cant see their kids absolutely drive everyone they come in contact with nuts - they love them so why wouldnt every one else?. The dog doesnt scare them so therefore anyone that gets scared by them is stupid. Its inconceivable for them that everyone wont love their dogs just as they do. We see lots of this with Pacers. People who have never put a leash on a dog and never done any of the most basic training with them, some dog agressive , some people agressive but THEY love them and when they hit a disaster they expect we can just find a place for someone to take them as feral as they are into their homes free of charge , distrupt their own lives and that of their own dogs and family without ever considering exactly what it is they are asking or expecting. Little flossie is an inside dog so everyone expects that she will be able to be with a foster carer who can have her inside until "mummy" can come back and get her and take her home. Ooops forgot to mention she widdles everywhere. Why wouldnt the foster carer love her and not notice she piddles on everything and has taken over the foster carers dog's bed and when you let her out in the yard she never shuts up and upsets the neighbours ? " Look how beautiful she is " Walk your dog down the street off leash - all those peopel who cross the street because they are worried about it eating their small white fluffies are idiots. Or take it for a run in the on leash park and let it run through other family's picnic lunches and worry parents about letting their kids walk on their own to the toot - throw in a couple of nce poos to leave behind - whats wrong with people who get upset about this? " look how beautiful they are "

At the moment, my main concern holding me back is that she will become a nightmare for my OH and his family - and, as bad as it may sound, they are my priority in the situation. Nothing to do with not wanting to be a 'dobber'. I have, however, contacted the council for details on reporting as they only had information on their site about dangerous dogs who specifically "attacked a person and caused serious injury". Still awaiting a reply, and in the meantime I will be keeping an eye out whenever I am at OH's place for any other stupid behaviour on the dog owner's part. Yep I hear you that would be my main issue too but council cant say where the complaint came from.

You dont need to be a member of Pacers but you do need to go through the buy process in the shop with the shopping cart if we are to know who you are and your address and that you have placed an order for the book. If you just pay via the pay pal donation link without placing the order that's all we see - that its a donation and not a sale and when Im posting them out I work off the orders via the shop. Same if you pay via cheque - its easier for us to muck it up if all the orders arent in one place for me run off when Im posting them out. So you need to order it through the shop and then pay either via bank deposit or pay pal or cheque. This also gives you your order number and invoice and when Im posting them I can see whether the payment has been marked as received and its a quick easy process. when I have to go through and read any pay pal receipts between a certain date line to check none are for cook books or if Lesley has to email me through orders and addresses which she has received with cheques for orders not on the system it increases the time factor but also increases the risks of me mucking it up when the time comes to post them out. By the way if you can avoid pay pal thats good too because they take a fair wack out of each one for fees. Bank deposit or cheque is better.

Think it through - you really cant ethically get out of reporting it even though we live in a culture that teaches us not to dob people in. If you do nothing for what ever reason and someone gets hurt next time or the dog is run over etc then you may have been able to prevent it . Apart from this the really big deal is how these idiots and their lack of respect for anyone else impacts on what we can and cant do with our dogs. We end up with more laws and more restriction on us and our dogs because of this kind of crappy irresponsible behaviour.

Sounds like a nomination to me. www.mdbaawards.net.au

We have had a couple of cases of late which we havent come anywhere near recouping what we had to pay out to help and still way behind on Vics So...... http://www.dolforums.com.au/forum/68-pacers-fundraising-auctions-general-fundraising/ Dont forget about our dogz auctions guys - Meg in particular is going way over and beyond to give us a hand and we will be putting several more up over the next day or two so keep watching . We have lots of dogz goodies too! Thanks Meg! Julie

Ive been breeding beagles for a very long time and I remember being about where you are now. Im happy to help you - You have a way to go before you pass go yet but everyone has to start somewhere. Julie

Im curious about your time line and why you have chosen this way in particular to begin. Why will you wait until he is that old? Why will you mate her at age 2 ? You dont need to keep them separated unless she is on heat and thats not as easy as it sounds. Your quiet boy turns into a nut case when he scents that she is on heat and she will find the most devious ways of getting to her man or several men and getting a bit. Does your boy have blue registration papers and have you spoken with his breeder about breeding him ? How will you choose the best partner for him? Will his breeder have any input into that?

Part of what I see is wrong with the inflated prices (especially blue staffies) is that the average moron thinks, "Wow, I've forked out a lot for this dog. I should breed a litter to re-coup my costs and make a bucketload more!" This is what sets off the cycle of below average, outside of standard dogs with multiple health issues, because all they care about is making their money back, plus some, with no regard for health testing and procedures! You of all people I thought would have been able to spot that. Of course I can spot that but what makes them more deserving of getting better prices than someone who is doing it all better ? Why should we behave as if we are the ones less able to ask a price for a dog and perpetuate the whole thing even more. Why am I held to be responsible for all the woes of the dog world and have to go without in order to try to prevent something I cant prevent. All I can be responsible for is what comes out of my yard and if I feel my service and my product is superior to another then Im entitled to charge accordingly. How else do I demonstrate that it is a superior product and that my service is superior ? Try telling people that the reason you keep your prices down is so other people wont think they can make money out of breeding dogs and see how many believe you. it gives the mpression you have so many you have to lower your price or you have a lesser quality product. If Im doing it all right then why do you want me to be answerable for those who are not? If I keep my prices down will this stop people from wanting to breed dogs for money as their primary goal ? if I take less than I can get I have less to put back into my dogs - how does me making a moral stand and refusing to charge realistic prices help the pure bred dog world rather than hinder it? For almost 38 years Ive been breeding dogs and Ive kept my prices pretty low - that didnt stop people deciding they can make money out of it and cross bred mongrels in pet shops bringing in double what I charged. I kept my prices down and watched while breeders of purebred dogs are treated as if we are some kind of crimminals while people who were breeding for profit were cheered in for their healthier dogs! I cant for the life of me see how me keeping my prices under some idiot is going to stop anyone from seeing what they are doing and do it anyway. I cant think of one other thing available by being able to buy it where if you pay less its a sign of superiority so you can hardly expect anyone to see that when you offer something at half the price that you are offering something which is valued more than the more expensive one. It goes against everything we know in our society. There are consequences for everything - if you sell them for less than you can get you make the public see you have an inferior product and even you think you should keep the price down because they arent worth any more - if you sell them for more then you make some idiots think they can do it for nothing more than money. We have bought into this crap hook line and sinker and while we go without in the name of not setting a bad example the bad examples snicker all the way to the bank. No matter what I charge for my dogs Im not now or ever going to take the wrap for people seeing breeding dogs as a way of making a profit because the gardener did that way before blue staffys became popular.

Yes thats right If I was going to buy a puppy I would research too. I know what will and will not suit my lifestyle and why some breeds wouldnt be very happy at my house, what I need to watch out for etc but the reality is that lots and lots of people dont . They judge quality on price - you get what you pay for blah blah blah . Im sorry I dont for the life of me understand why it is morally and ethically corrupt to raise the price to better demonstrate the value of the dog and to sell the pup for the best price you can get. If you can get more money for your puppies even though it wasnt your primary goal and you havent compromised on anything you do why on earth shouldnt you take what you can get to enable you to put more back into what you are doing. Most times we loose money and breeding to make money even if you believe you can do that without compromising is a high risk activity and Im certainly not advocating for any one to do that I dont get why if one breeder is supply a better product and better service the price shouldnt be able to demonstarte that if you can get it. I spoke with someone yesterday who I would consider to be the best lab breeder in this country and she charges $1400 for a lab pup then I spoke again with someone who had rung asking advice on a lab puppy they were buying for over 2000 dollars from someone who wouldnt get into the MDBA [i didnt tell the buyer that] The buyer believed that even though she had done all of her research and knew about the breed and the health issues etc that paying more meant a better more superior breeder and a better chance at getting a good pup. Ive spoken with people who got ripped of by the bulldog breeder who were paying 4000 plus for pups which didnt exist who put up with the most stupid stuff because there was so much mney they didnt believe it was anything other than what they were being told it was - why else would someone charge that kind of money? Ive spoken with some who have become worried about a breeder who pulls 4000 for puppies which other breeders in that breed are charging half for. how anyone could get sucked in by that one is beyond me because there are warning belles all over the place. Ive seen beagle pups in a pet shop go for double what mine do and they run out the door. There are only 4 and a half thousand registered breeders in this country and 70% of us only breed one litter per year.Australia wide we only bred 8 and a half thousand litters and non registered breeders bred 35,000 litters. The demand is there but not enough supply and the sooner we work that out and charge prices which are more in line with what we are worth the sooner the public will see we are worth more too. Supply and demand - and if these breeders can pull this much for those pups when they have more competition for sales in that breed than any other its time we all considered its more productive for us and the breed if we say if there's are worth that ours are worth more. Throwing money away isnt a pre requisite of a good breeder. If you can get it take it and you wont know if you can get it if you dont ask for it. Its only un ethical and imoral if your first goal is to make money and you are prepared to compromise to get more profit.

If Vic dogs really did say they should get a full refund they are way out of line and its my experience that they never say this because they know there could be a 100 different versions of what they are hearing. Time to cut the breeder some slack. They take a pup to their vet and get a tick for its health. They sell the pup in good faith believing it is healthy and in reality unless the original vet is prepared to admit they lied and did hear a murmur but said nothing any speculation that the dog had a murmur birth or at that visit is not even part of the equation. its one vets word against another and hard to imagine one vet is prepared to call the first vet negligent or a liar. I sent a pup home a couple of years ago. It had a heart check at 6 weeks and another at 12 weeks - two days before it went to its new home. 3 days after it went home the new owner said it seemed sad and took it to their own vet for a check up. the owners vet couldnt find anything wrong but precaustion put the pup on anti biotics. 24 hours later the pup died. An autopsy was performed and the pup had died from an anurism in its heart which was probably there all along and something it was born with but 3 vets missed any problem. I send my puppies home with a pet plan free insurance policy which covers them for 6 weeks and I advise the new owners to take up either Pet Plan insurance or another for at least the first year . Pet Plan covered all of the expenses and the purchase price with the exception of 100 dollars excess which I paid to the owner. Too bad this pup didnt have insurance because if its as terribly sick as you say it is i cant imagine it will be able to live with it and because it was healthy at time of sale it would have been covered.

Basic economics - supply and demand.If they couldnt get the prices they are are asking the price wouldn't be so high. The public see these are more expensive and so believe they are better. Perhaps breeders who expect that everyone looking for a staffy will know the difference between one and the other should raise their prices way over what they are asking to demonstrate their product is superior to these. If these ones are so inferior and the breeders are so ignorant then surely breeders who have superior pups and who are well educated can bring higher prices. Why not give it a go?

I would say its common enough in cavs to warrant breeders having their breeding stock MRI tested however, there are many other breeds which suffer from this as well and our health surveys actually showed several F1 cross bred dogs which had been diagnosed with it as well. None of the cross breds which showed on the survey were cav crosses. Its easy to think in any of these types of things that its breed specific especially when one breed has been hammered as the cavs have via pedigreed dogs exposed etc but whether more cavs are actually represented than any other breed or part there of is open to speculation without further research not just on cavs but any that turn up with it. Because of the propoganda from PDE its much more likely that a cav will be diagnosed with this where if the same symptoms show in any other dog the vet wont diagnose it as quickly so you have to look at it all in that context as well.

Pacers is a charity and helps any domestic animal onwer who needs help to keep their pets. What we do is not in anyway restricted to members. Anyone can apply for assistance via filling out an application form via our website www.mdbapacers.org.au Julie

No, that wasn't quite the reason. Being easter & the last day the vet was open & vet being busy & relaying message/conversation through nurse it was all a bit puzzling however after easter when I was there with kittens I asked what had happened. The stricture was widened by inserting something, not cutting/surgery, in such a small animal. This means that although she was stretched internally & checked afterwards it can go tight again. This is what had happened by the time I checked her. She had the surgery a couple of months ago. The stretch is basically forced entry & hopefully the dog can get in when its time. Does not always happen. Putting her to the stud & him gradually doing the deed over the few days & stretching her was what seemed to work. The timing was about right & did not cause the problem. We will see the result with an ultra sound in a few weeks. Bit hard to understand as one thinks if it is stretched it stays stretched, I did, not so. Still looks like a timing issue to me.

I think that might be a good market right there. A vet commented one day that I should have a business helping newbies deal with whelping/raising, especially in the first few critical days and after caesars etc. People get sent home from the vets with a basket full of puppies and no idea how to keep them all. Having a whelping assistance service, where you are on call and can be the voice of experience for those stressful moments. I get all manner of calls asking for help during whelping in the middle of the night but the reality is that this is what vets are for and there are limits on what you should advise someone over the phone where it could result in something going wrong.I cant give that kind of advice any more to anyone who isnt one of our members because the insurance doesnt cover me but even then Im very careful about what Im saying over the phone and if its any more than real basic stuff or running them through what they need to watch for and check Im not going there.So far everyone has been happy with the outcome and it makes you feel warm and fuzzy when someone tells you they learned more in a 10 minute conversation with you over the phone than what they have learned for 10 years of breeding dogs but Im very much aware of the fact that if things go wrong I dont want to be the one in the middle of it. Giving advice on how to do what comes next is different as its not so much in the area of professional vet treatments. Remember giving something like oxy to your own dog is within the law but giving it to someone else's dog breaches the law unless you are a vet.

I just quickly wanted to duck in to say Pacers has over the last 8 weeks had a particularly trying client and her 3 dogs and cat to deal with. As a result 2 of our Foster Carers had to put up with a bit of a pain in the neck and even though Ive said it over and over privately I would like to say publicly to Teebs and Pax. Whew! Thank you! No words can say how well you handled yourselves and what you both did was very much appreciated by Pacers. It sure was a steep learning curve :rofl: and we now have a process in place to ensure our foster carers dont need to be bothered by that sort of thing. Thanks Guys.

Thank you to every one who purchased tickets and supported us in the Mothers Day Raffle First Prize was won by Barabara Inkskip and donated by Sharon B. [shazzapug] Second Prize was won by Alix Simpson and donated By Eukanuba. Thank you every one ! Julie

Thanks cassie - have responded via email.

Just reminding you all about the Ebay store and the mothers day Raffle.

The way its going we may have to look at a boarding kennel for the boy so you never know we may still need you then. It depends on how long its going to take for Vic to have pet friendly accommodation. Since we called for help we have received $2585.00 - Thank you ! We have paid out about $4250.00 and though there will be some expenses depending on how long before the dog can go home in comparison its minimal. Ebay and the Mothers Day Raffle will add some over the next week. It might be a good time to remind you all though that this is one and a couple of others you have watched play out a bit because they have been dogz members but at any given time we have up to 60 animals in foster care and we help with food and various other things to help people keep their animals.We sometimes feed over 100 animals per week. Usually our help goes up to 12 weeks but now and then we have had to extend that due to extended recovery time etc after an accident. Just over Easter we had this one and 2 others in 3 different states which were urgent which wrote off any hope of 4 of us spending much holiday time with our families.Thank fully this was the only one which needed much outlay. No one at Pacers gets paid wages though sooner or later in the distant future that has to change because the work load is huge and gets bigger every day and its preventing some of us from earning much of a living of our own now Each time I go to thank you all - all of you from the ones who offer support,donate an item, sometimes which you have not only spent money on the materials but sweat over making them up, or buy a raffle ticket to the ones who live through some of the more interesting cases with us - open your homes to strange animals and put yourselves out to help strangers, the ones who go in with us and literally get covered in shit to sort out a client it feels in-adequate. I struggle to find the words to be able to explain how very much what you do is appreciated and how much impact it all has on people and their animal's lives. This is 100% the biggest challenge for me - being able to convey that appreciation with sincerity so the people Im saying thank you to know that its not just something you say as sign of good manners and that it means so very much more. Thank you. Julie

In NSW its illegal to use an electric fence around dogs. A dog run or a yoke.

thank you. We have had a huge day today and poor Jaxxbuddy is dead on her feet - started at 8am and just finishing now but the furniture is now nice and safe in storage. Its been an enormous task. Whew! Tomorrow the cars are being moved out - just in time to beat the clock. Still looking for a short term foster carer in Adelaide for an entire boy too. Also in case any of you didnt know we have streamlined the whole fundraising thing a bit so if any one is interested we would be happy to provide you with approvals to fundraise for us - we provide all insurances for you too - public liability and volunteers insurance to cover you while you are helping us. You can even incorporate it in with your own fundraising for your own individual clubs. http://www.mdbapacers.org.au/index.php?Itemid=67

Most of them wanted around that. We were starting to worry this one was too cheap so might be a bit dodgey. But honestly it is a big job and not as simple as it sounds when you just say move 3 cars.

It was about $200 each x 3 from memory. Some of them wanted $1600 plus so we thought we did pretty well. Its not as simple as picking them up as yours was off the side of the road and its going to take em a while to be able to even load them let alone get them to where they have to go. Insurance was an issue too, they are not registered but worth a lot of money.