Steve

Sorry you have had to deal with this Malti - just shows that bullying and filthy behaviour is alive and well in all areas of the dog world. Sad that the focus on what is best for the dogs gets lost in the quagmire.

I think Tralee has recently won against this

Ive been around entire dogs all my life and Ive never had a dog with mammary cancer, or pyro - or testicular cancer. Most have lived to mid to late teens and all were bred. A couple have been desexed when they got older but I found they didnt fair any better than those which were left entire.

I dunno Tralee I cant judge them because the coats look completely wrong to me - probably just because they are groomed for the show but I dont want to see those coats which get really badly matted and need heaps of grooming - which some in Australia have. They look pretty and all,magnificent in fact but its not practical in a paddock .As I said I may be seeing only a groomed coat and when he's not on the podium and all dressed for the ring his coat may look different but it's making me hesitate. As far as the way these guys are approached anyone including a judge needs to be aware of the fact that their temperament is not aggressive but they aren't supposed to be thrilled about stranger bowling up to them either. Im really glad to hear you won that court case

So use this as a lesson learned and write up what it means when you take a deposit and when it will and will not be refunded in more detail. Work out why you take the deposit in the first place and what it means to you, what extra work you put in when they make a commitment that you dont need to do if someone is only making an enquiry if they pull the plug. In any other "business" or activity people charge for time and services rendered - in fact yesterday I received an account from someone who is just an ordinary every day person and not part of any business who has charged me 8 hours x 25 dollars an hour to arrange to have someone's power turned off. He charged me 86 hours at 25 dollars an hour for 10 days to walk three houses down and feed 6 chooks. Legally its called pain and troubles apparently and if I dont want to pay it he gets to go to the court and charge me more hours of pain and troubles at 25 dollars an hour. As long as you disclose before they place a deposit what this means and the exact conditions under what circumstances will apply that you donate all of the extra time and work to them that you need to which you will now need to give to any new person who shows up once they become a definite puppy buyer and refund their money all is well but if you have made an agreement and later have to ask someone else what would you do or what can you do its a clear indication that you haven't covered what needs to be covered before you take a deposit and you need to address that before you take another one.

So while they are handing out tickets for healthy cross breeds they send off winning dogs of other breeds for poor health just to be sure they make their point????????????????????????????????

Cats cant participate in much else though and crufts has always been hallowed for the show casing of PUREBRED dogs. There are numerous things people with mutts can do with their dogs- agility, herding,obedience, dancing with dogs, etc etc etc or they can show their dogs at a show they organise but to incorporate this at crufts is in my opinion disgusting and I cant imagine what the hell they are thinking. Dogmad I agree that there is a place for rescue to be showcased and their health and temperament judged and one day soon you will see this as its one f the things the MDBA has coming up for our members to participate in and if almost anyone else on earth wanted to do that everything you say would be on the ball. But there isnt a chance in hell in my opinion that they should be at crufts and I think this is a major stuff up which will have unintended consequences for the purebred dog world .

Killing us softly.

Bloody hell - re- homing foxes ? God help us this is a world gone mad. They kill and kill and kill. Out around here its nothing for them to kill one lamb for every one born!

Geez Tralee who is judging them? - Surely anyone who is qualified to judge should know what is needed to do the job properly! What do you mean they presented as a threat ? How can we address this issue as we don't want the dogs being seen to be lacking in temperament. If a judge is presenting as a threat then how can the dog's temperament be fairly judged? Before we know it they will be listed as aggressive.

Personally I wouldn't do this. Many reasons but first and foremost, why on earth should you have to lie? Circumstances change all the time and at the end of the day, it is YOUR puppy and you have an obligation to it. Don't make up excuses, just come straight out and tell the girl the puppy is no longer available. At worst, tell her you have decided to keep it yourself and immediately return the deposit. Don't get drawn into making excuses, they can backfire. I agree no matter what, you have to maintain your integrity - legally and morally you have every right to say - you didn't turn up you loose. When you tell lies and then tomorrow sell the pup to someone else you become the bad guy and you are open to attacks and bad press - simply return the deposit and say bugger off.

If that was my dog there isnt a chance Id vaccinate it .

Agreed - off property it should be accustomed to doing and being open to what is required of it in the ring. I assumed that if a dog is winning in any country that the judge is putting hands on it and checking its mouth etc. Aren't they?

Aphra - on your points of why not to join and why be concerned I 100% agree - however, over the last 10 years Ive watched while numerous groups have started and stopped almost over night . I just think the fact they are trying is one good point in their favour that's all. There are several groups including DRAV who arent putting the kind of details out that is being asked of this group and I believe they did do much work with lots of success in the last elections and last update of laws in Victoria in representing small rescue. The outcome affected their own group and all other rescue in Victoria.

Again Im not supporting this group. Problem is a quick look around would seem to suggest that its common in the rescue and activist lobby groups area for associations not to have such information on their websites anyway especially when they are relatively new. I would have had different thoughts on Oscars law when it first started if it had that sort of info more obviously positioned and you have to look pretty hard to find this sort of info on another group which is basically set up for similar purposes as NARGA too. This hasn't prevented them from gathering loads of support and heaps of donated money and sponsorship - and having a very effective voice and running a good campaign for united rescue groups at government level. This whole I wont join if ............. is a member is the reason why anyone trying to set up a group which gives a united voice for rescue and attempts to set standards will always be pushing it all up hill. Most groups do not publish a list of their members anyway. If they are going to make decisions based on what is popular or what one group or other or what person or other has to say rather than policy and principals its going to be interesting to watch.

I couldn't see that but there is an area here in rescue politics which is hard to crack and Im not saying any more than that I think the fact that they are having a bit of go is at least some points in their favour for now.

Yep, you beat me to it Steve. I tried to start a similar kind of thing a few years ago, nowhere near on this kind of scale though, it was more about rescues helping each other, offering advice and support, sharing information, etc. The smaller groups were very keen and liked the idea but it was hard getting larger, more established groups on board. In fact a couple were really rude about it, it was like how dare I ask them to be involved when they already knew everything anyway. In the end we scrapped the group and the smaller groups just went about quietly helping each other anyway. I'll be joining NARGA shortly, I'm happy to support them, at least they're giving it a go and trying to make a difference. If it turns out that it's not for me I can always leave, but in the meantime anyone who's got the time, passion and dedication to get something like this off the ground has my support. I liked their intro letter, yes there's room for improvement and with such a wide range of ideas not everything is going to be for everyone, but kudos to them for giving it a go. I'd rather add my for support for something that's got the potential to be great than pooh pooh it and watch them struggle because they didn't have the support they needed in the beginning. Jo xx Not sure Id go that far Im not up for joining groups unless Im sure I share their base philosophies etc but I just dont think we should be so hard on anyone prepared to give it a go.

If she is healthy and happy in my opinion all is well. Dogs are like people and they crave things when their body needs them pomegranets have vitamin C , vitamin K, folate and potassium and is a good source of numerous B vitamins and phosphorus.It also has polyphenols, which are antioxidants linked to the prevention of heart disease and cancer. In fact its a perfect compliment to a diet which includes milk and raw meaty bones. This is heaps and heaps better than any dry or canned dog food. Usually puppies dont drink milk after they have been weaned but .Lots of dogs drink milk all their lives - mine do fresh from the cow so you dont have to stop feeding the milk but it is a food not just a drink so the dog is getting lots of nutrients [most of which are in meat and bones] from that too. As dogs get older their need for regular feeding changes and some dogs make the changes quicker than others depending on size and breed and the season. Some dogs are ready to cut back to one feed a day by this age especially those on a raw meat diet. Dogs in the wild eat a big meal of meat and then don't eat again for a couple of days and or dont eat meat for a couple of days. Some foods are also digested quicker than others. I would offer her the raw meaty bones in the morning make sure what she doesnt eat in say 15 mins is taken away and try to limit her intake of the fruit but not entirely and let her make the decision on what she needs. Lucky dog wish I could sit around all day for a couple of weeks eating pomegranets.

Full marks to them anyway. Not everyone gets it right especially in the beginning and no group suits everyone but few people have a go and at least they are having a go.

As long as the dog you are intending to use has never had any sign or symptom of anything that might even remotely be associated with immunity most canine immunologists would likely tell you to go ahead. Jean Dodds advice when we met with her was to avoid any dog which showed symptoms but to select its sibling which had never had symptoms for breeding. You dont have enough information to be more sure of one or the other and based on only what you have here I cant see any real reason for not going ahead with either of them as long as there has never been anything ever that they have never remotely shown signs any thing no matter how small going on with their immunity.

Other studies show that there is a increase not a decrease in cancers in desexed dogs.The only two cancers it prevents are in the bits that are removed .Any male mammal can get cancer in the testicles if they have testicles which is why more entire dogs get it than those which dont have testicles but having testicles still gives you only a limited risk of cancer of the testicles. These are things which have been circulated by animal activists which are biased and not all accurate.

Agreed - there is no denying that there are risks associated with any operation but if you are calling these rescue then the risk is part of the situation they are in. If owners want a choice they should buy a pup form someone other than a person calling themselves rescue. If you want the choice you shouldnt be making statements as to their status as rescue dogs

I think you should make them work for it a bit more than they traditionally do. Ask each one publicly about real issues we talk about every day here where they stand on allowing cross bred oodle breeders to be members and how would they chuck them out if they dont want them there because there are a bunch of them intheir membership including some pretty big names - one who breeds purebred dogs but none registered! Ask them how they feel about breed specific legislation How they feel about tail docking etc etc more regulation and restrictions on breeding and a couple of hundred more so people know what they stand for and what they w ill be saying as they represent the members if they get in Traditionally no one has a clue about what any of them think or stand for. Make them accountable and transparent before they get in.

I know, so annoying :D I like it. i dont want everyone agreeing and being censored - no one ever learns anything that way Though it would be better if he just learned to play the ball and not the man.

Well thats a very nice room but better elaborate so we know what room it is, and why they got the trophies so we have a clue what it is you're trying to tell us.