WoofnHoof

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up. Thanks Jigsaw I just had a look at the bottle and it is ACE (Acepromazine) so I might try and look into getting some valium for her, the biggest problem is still if I am not home though

Thanks Pers they are very easy keepers in summer that's for sure! :) Thanks Kirty makes sense it's hard to get closer in the bigger paddock but I'll try backing off the zoom and see how I go next time :)

Yeah i usually try to zoom a bit because it's really tiny if I don't, I don't have it right out at the max either though usually somewhere in between it goes up to 32x I think so I'd be usually about halfway between that and zero, is that still to much you think?

Thanks Kirty I thought I was holding it halfway for a bit but maybe it's not long enough to get the focus right? Most of them are cropped one second he's close next he is at the other end of the paddock so they are either really close or really far away lol! :laugh:

More pics :) This one would be better with ears lol This is my fave pic of today

I'm having this problem with our SV, she hates storms and always tries to escape, I crate her inside most days while I'm out and most of the time she is fine but I came home the other day after a big storm had gone through and she had gone beserk on the crate and bent the sides of it (it's quite a large strong crate and she's only a little dog but very very strong) and it looks like she had chipped a tooth on it there was blood around the front of the crate and she was very swollen around the nose from trying to force her way out When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

You'd probably fit the description of a hobby trainer anyway, rather than a trainer who does it as a primary source of income. If more trainers operated as you do, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now- people demanding the sport be banned entirely. It's an unfortunate fact that is has become what it is because of the people involved and ultimately, this may lose everyone the sport and the healthy dogs. I don't hold out much hope that the industry members will realise this before it's too late Typo It wont happen while the TAB keeps funding both horse and dog racing, since tabcorp cares little enough about human welfare they sure aren't going to let animal welfare issues affect their profit margin.

All you have to do is be distracted and have the dog manage to access the baby. There is a documented history of this breed removing babies from their cribs. There has be one such incident here in Australia in recent years. As Espinay says, this is only with neonates and seems to involve the dog not recognising such a tiny baby as 'human' in the first important weeks of the child being home. It's prey drive in action sadly. I remember the WA one I don't know whether it's prey drive so much as the innate curiosity with this breed, from memory the baby was pulled from a bassinet and it was unclear whether it actually attacked the baby to cause fatal injuries or the impact of the baby dropping to the floor that killed her. The thing that makes me wonder is the amount of times I've seen my fellow stand up to carefully get something from a high bench and because he usually grabs just the edge of it with his mouth to pull it off the bench and once it drops to the floor he investigates further. Granted it's a fairly moot point as a curious husky is just as dangerous to a tiny baby for this reason as a vicious one but it always makes me wonder because things often get reported as 'maulings' which may or may not be accurate, and I think it's an important distinction because it can affect the perception of the breed.

That would have to be the weakest argument I have ever seen for perpetuating the racing industry, and given that all of the arguments are fairly weak that's saying something! And for those saying what would happen to all the racing animals if the industry were banned now? The same thing that happens already - most die - the only difference is that the cycle would stop. Keeping it going out of some illusion that animals are being 'saved' is ridiculous, it's the same argument they tried to use to justify jumps racing, it 'saves' horses from being dogged, when in reality it just delays the inevitable. Take the industry out and make the sport a hobby with the welfare of the animals a priority, that is the only way forward. The fact that there are worse atrocities committed against animals in no way negates the awfulness of a dog being put down because the owner couldn't be arsed finding a home for it, I have no idea why anyone would think that argument could possibly mollify the people who object to the obscene wastage of the racing industries.

Swedish vallhund? Active hardy dogs but small and quite happy to sit at your feet and watch TV inside :) Sheds quite a bit but pretty easy care as far as grooming goes a basic brush is all that's needed. I don't know about prey drive Lulu would probably go for mice but she's fine around cats etc so might be worth asking breeders.

That is one well trained owner! 'I'll call you and if you don't come I'll call you again or else!! I'll call you again. Exactly, whilst i can see how this vid can be funny, it is also a classic example of being walked all over The comand 'come' obv means nothing to the dog, come to this dog means yep i can sit on the couch and back chat. Then when the dog finally did come over she is going reward the naughty behaviour? Sorry to sound like a stick in the mud, i have never owned a Husky and have heard they are hard to train but i would still not put up with that. Then please don't ever get a husky, under normal circumstances the owner shouldn't have kept calling the dog when it didn't come the first time but the video was obviously played for laughs. But the reality is that if you expect obedience don't get a husky, it doesn't matter how good a trainer you are you will never guarentee 100% obedience with this breed. My dog knows heaps of tricks and will do them on command most of the time but if he doesn't feel like doing it no force on earth can (or should) make him, they are not a biddable breed it is not bred into them to be continually seeking direction from humans. Here's another fairly typical example:

Got a few pics today not very good ones though This is supposedly 'sports mode' on my camera This is just manual settings I think I had ISO on 400? Lou couldn't even raise a trot lol I must work out how to remove the date display it's a bit inconvenient.

Change Husky to Akita and you're set! In fact, you could probably change that to say don't get a spitz breed if those are your requirements. :laugh: Hugo obeys me, was easy to train, I trust him off-leash, he bends over backwards to please me during a training session until I get tired or bored.. Maybe I got a mentally retarded dog because he seriously isn't a pain in the ass that Spitz people keep insisting their dog "group" is just generally like :laugh: I would say don't get a Vallhund if you don't want to suffer a stroke every time they bark (which they will LOL, in a very loud, sharp, ear-piercing fashion). Also they shed a hell of a lot. "Moderate shedders" my arse. Can't think of anything else, but I'm particularly biased in thinking that every person should have a Vallhund Oh, don't get one if you hate the constant thud of tennis balls dropped into your lap, though I haven't a clue if it's like that for all Vallhunds or not. Yep Lulu is a SV and a couple of times she has given me a fright by giving a loud bark for no apparent reason :laugh: she doesn't bark much when she's inside but when she does it's LOUD! She will fetch a ball until she drops so I'd say you are spot on with that as a very vallhund trait too :) I reckon Chihuahua's would have to be one of the easiest breeds to own, sure they yap and you can't leave them in the backyard they are inside dogs for sure, but I just find them so easy to manage and keep. But then I have a husky so next to him I think every other breed is easier lol! Yeah, Siberian Husky - nuff said :p

Thanks guys :) Thanks to the rain they look like mud monsters at the moment so no more pics until they are a bit more respectable :laugh:

Thanks Tiggy :) I didn't get any more pics today lots of storms around unfortunately, maybe next weekend I might have better weather.

Thanks :) if it's a nice day tomorrow they might get some time out in the big paddock again (under supervision of course because they trash my fences the minute I turn my back :rolleyes: )

Thanks tlc :)

Thanks everyone they are my pretty boys :) kja I've had this one for a little while it's a Nikon p500 not too fancy but a bit more spec than my previous point and shoot cameras so I'm trying to learn how to use it I'm not too good though Thanks Sid yeah I think the straight on one was a bit cropped and a bit rushed too, I didn't get many moving pics as they were mostly eating as that paddock is having a good rest so the grass is starting to outcompete the weeds for a change lol! :laugh:

Hi everyone, still fiddling with the camera trying to work everything out so here are today's efforts :) Louie looking lovely as always This one's a bit blurry Blitzen looking cute of course despite going through a warty stage at the moment This pic makes him look funny as he's trotting down the hill

There is a culture in abattoirs which does contribute, it depends on the facility we have a few up here some have a reputation for being fairly awful some are fairly good, it depends on a lot of things the attitude and education of the workers and the type of facility and equipment available are the main factors. I'll give you a couple of examples of stories I heard (from a kill floor worker) from one of the less adequate facilities (I'll put it in spoilers for the people who don't want to know): Obviously these might be rare they might be common I spent as little time as possible on the kill floor at the one I worked at so I don't know for sure but I do know that the culture at that particular plant was not a pleasant one for humans or animals. Either way it's preferrable to have the light shone on these places so that everyone can learn what is acceptable and what is not, it's likely that many do know that their behaviour is unacceptable but they have gotten away without consequences for some time.

This is true, I think possibly the free range animals are sent to the same slaughterhouses as the non free range I was thinking of that just after I posted actually. Although if I had to choose for the animal I've eaten to have lived a good live and then be killed inhumanely, or to be killed humanely but have been battery farmed I know which I'd choose. Still, I shouldn't have to bloody well choose. People should do their job properly and NOT BE INHUMANE TO ANIMALS. How hard is it!? Frustrates me. Yes free range animals go through the same abattoir, at least they did at the pork factory I was at so it's likely to be the same across other species. At present the only consumer controlled aspect of abattoir behaviour is those which are audited by the larger companies, I had a look on the McDonalds website and their tiny paragraph dedicated to animal welfare says they get their audits done by Ausmeat so it might be worth contacting them to see what their audit processes are?

Unfortunately I think those grants probably all went to upgrading Indonesian abbattoirs while everyone here was screaming after last year's Animals Australia hysterics that it doesnt happen in Australian abbattoirs. This is a case of - It doesnt happen in our backyard - and while people were pointing the finger elsewhere, it all got pushed under the carpet here. Political brownie points at the time and it will all come home to roost now. I don't see it that way, it is necessary to try to address both, we have a responsibility to our animals whether they are slaughtered here or elsewhere. The main difference is that it shouldn't happen here as we have codes of practice and animal welfare laws specifically pertaining to the slaughter of animals, whether they get followed and enforced is of course a different story. At the time we didn't have any rights pertaining to the treatment of our animals offshore and while it's likely that we still don't I think it's all part of the gradual erosion of ignorance of the general public as to what it really takes to get meat on the table. I don't think anyone who has worked in an abattoir is denying that things aren't all butterflies and sunshine no matter where it is but some facilities are better equipped and managed than others and so they need to set the standard for the rest to follow. In some plants it is the buyers who dictate the standard, I don't know if it has been adopted in Australia but in the US McDonalds conducts audits for their suppliers based on Grandin's guidelines and if the performance drops below a certain level they will suspend receival of product until the standard is brought up to acceptable levels. It's a useful incentive and one which should compliment education ideally.

This- I am more than happy to support farmers and meat and livestock australia while they are trying to make things work. (Just the same as I support ethical breeders and still buy pups). I am another who won't give up meat and I am not ashamed about it. I do follow the research being done in this area because it was maybe is an area that I am interested in working. Where were the vets when all this was happening btw?? If they are anything like the onsite vet at the abattoir I worked at they were probably in their office reading the paper..

Yep totally agree. So much money was spent on what happened in Indonesia to get it up to scratch but looks like nothing happened here in the same regard. That's totally ridiculous. This topic has come up on one of the horse forums I'm on too there are some people who are familiar with the Prohand education programs that have been developed by the AWSC and I think it would be good to expand this to include more species and perhaps incorporate it as part of a minimum qualification/training for abattoir workers, that would go a long way to improving both conditions for the animals and the cultural perceptions about animal welfare in the industry as well. Mags Temple Grandin's research has shown signficant welfare issues associated with handling facility designs and has made her living designing better facilities, I think there are minimum standards for new facilities but it would be nice to see grants offered for upgrades to existing facilities as well.

I think it's an important discussion and you wouldnt get enough traffic up in the cruelty subforum but Kirislin is highly sensitive to stuff like this as are others so I'm not sure how you'd get around it. Woof, you say surveillance cameras wouldnt work. I disagree - I doubt that piglet would have been treated like that if the mongrel knew cameras were trained on him and he would suffer a huge fine, docked pay and/or sacking. I dont think it matters where abbattoir workers come from or what they're education level is when it comes to hitting them in the hip pocket. You can't sack everyone abattoirs have enough trouble keeping staff as it is if you fine the workers they will leave, fining the abattoir doesn't necesarily mean anything will change they need to make more fundamental changes in order to for them to last. Fines are also reliant on enforcement from external regulators which is patchy at best, you can provide all the stunners in the world if the handlers are unskilled in their use and the importance of correct usage then it means nothing. Education of workers has shown signficant improvements in their treatment of animals, when they are educated about the animals, their behaviour and their intelligence the workers have more respect for the animals and as a result their treatment of them improves. So education needs to go hand in hand with enforcement because on it's own enforcement won't change anything if they don't understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.