DeltaCharlie

I picked up an "emergency bag" the other day as our guys seem to do ok on it. We don't feed much kibble though so its rare to have a problem with any of them. I found a Woolies the other day that does 7kg bags for $28, if you were to buy those bigger bags it would out reasonably cheap.

When my house was broken into a few years back they gained access via the back yard. All they took of value was my computer and laptop- I suspect the dogs deliberately showed them where they were given the amount of time I was spending on them at the time! I could just picture Delta spinning in circles all the way down the hallway in her excitement to show off Mum's toys :laugh:

Best "watch dog" I ever owned was a Siamese Cat :laugh: She knew my Dad (he lived with me for a few weeks) yet still would not allow him into the house one day when he went round to feed the animals for me one night when I was away. He ended up having to go to Woolies and buy a bowl and some food and push it quickly through the front door LOL The dogs of course were all over him and happy to be fed outside.

We have a few here that I would feel perfectly safe walking down a dark alley with (and some who would be more likely to lick people to death :laugh: ). I have one who has had a nip at the heel of someone he thought was trying to break in through the back door (lots of warning barking which went ignored, when the person opened the back door he went in for a nip). I was home alone at the time though. If the house was empty? I highly doubt any of them would do a thing. They have no protection instinct when it comes to the house, even those who wouldn't hesitate to protect their person. As far as the bark goes, some of ours have an incredibly loud and deep bark that would sound like a much larger dog, but some of them have a yip type bark that would scare off nobody :laugh: I personally wouldn't recommend them as a breed for use as a watchdog.

What about an older dog? One that is past a lot of the "I want to rough and tumble" stage. Funnily enough, when I think of breeds that don't rough and tumble, I tend to think of larger breeds. It seems the smaller the dogs, the more intense their play style (huge generalisation I know :) ) Even at 15 and 12 our little dogs play much rougher than any of the border collies.

We have just moved here ourselves. The 2 we have looked at are the Port Stephens dog club at Raymond Terrace or the Newcastle All Breeds at Hillsborough. We have a full set of gear ourselves though so not overly urgent. Our deciding factor will probably be which of them will accept titre tests as we refuse to unnecessarily vaccinate a dog purely to train. Am prepared to do kennel cough if need be, but not a full C3 without reason.

The start time doesn't really bother me too much, with 11 dogs we tend to aim for being one of the first there to get close parking so we aren't lugging crates too far, or for ringside parking in front of the ring of choice for those that we can operate out of the car for. In all honesty, I couldn't tell you the start times for most comps as we are there well and truly before that anyway. I like afternoon trials in Summer, I don't cope well with running in the heat and neither do a few of our dogs. Being from Canberra though, it's hard either way during winter. Ice doesn't start melting until about 10am, starts forming again about 6pm so can only safely run the trial between those times.

Very clever. :) The pups are adorable. :D Isn't semaphore where you wave flags in certain ways :laugh: Puppies are very cute and glad to hear that they are doing well :) Sorry to hear about the little angel who didn't make it, its always sad to lose one

Some of the main health issues people are talking about have no proven genetic link, or are caused by a variety of factors, environment included. I only scanned through and have no real opinion either way, but if there are this many unhappy people around, and people continue to buy dogs from him without researching and reading the complaints of others, then they have no right to complain themselves. Surely allowing the pups to leave at 6 weeks is a breach though, provided they are ANKC reg of course.

Some of the breeds are rather bizarre too, my borders havrnt risen much ($8 per month) for similar coverage, but I also looked at the 12month coverage for Charlie as he is too old for the others. If I list him as an ACD x it is $70 per month but if I list him as a blue heeler x it is $53 per month :laugh:

For the people who have already received their premium increases, which policy have they put your dogs onto? Do they just choose the one that seems closest to what you previously had and stick you on it? If that happens and you would rather a lower policy, can you elect a different one or does that change the whole "continuous policy" thing and everything becomes pre-existing as per their PDS? The reason I ask is because both Shock and Whip are due for their renewals in July. I have previously paid yearly but will be switching to monthly payments. I think my old payments were $45 a month and after hearing all these horror stories I did a few dummy quotes to see what I would be up for in the future. It seems "medium" sized dogs aren't as severely affected by the price hike, as it will only up my premiums for those 2 dogs to $53 a month (so only an extra $8pm), Delta is $61pm month for the same coverage, but she is 7 and I think they are upping the price each year after 5. That price is for the Classic 1 policy, if they switch them to another policy then my premium will go higher. I don't mind an extra $8pm, and it certainly doesn't compare to the increases that others are experiencing, but I don't want to be going too much higher than that if I can help it. Not when I don't believe that either dog requires higher coverage.

As others have said, I think a lot of it depends on the individual dogs. We have 11 dogs so for the most part they learn from an early age that other dogs are fun, but they are simply everywhere and it is much more special to be getting attention from Mum :) It varies from dog to dog though, and for us has been very dependent on the value for "working with Mum" that we have managed to instil in them. Some of them have so much value for playing with us, that they are completely oblivious to any other dog's existence as soon as there is a hint of work to be done (term used loosely, could mean a game of fetch, swim in the dam, tricks training, or formal agility/flyball/sheep work). For some of them that is just their natural preference for whatever reason. Eg Link and Rush have such a high work ethic that nothing else exists, Charlie loves a toy so much that nothing else exists, and Delta just finds other dogs boring and why would she want to go and be with them? Others we have had to build the value for us so that it becomes so much higher than the value they have for distractions (other dogs etc) I wish I had looked at neutralising Whip around other dogs more when he was younger. He was very full-on as a pup and as a result didn't spend as much time "simply existing" with the entire pack as he annoyed the crap out of the older ones and Charlie taught him to shoulder charge so he became an injury risk at full speed until he could learn to control his body and find the brakes. The result- other dogs were a novelty to him and Mum was a constant, their value rose to be equal with me and I was constantly battling to keep his attention around the distraction of other dogs. It took a long time for him to be able to work off lead in the presence of other dogs, and he didn't hit the agility ring until the age of 2 when he had matured a little and could concentrate on the task at hand. He is nearly 4 and I have only just started to run him in pairs for agility as until recently I didn't have the confidence in him to not suddenly want to run after the other dog. His first run was with a golden retriever that he trains with and had never shown any interest in, the second run was with another border collie and I was petrified for most of the run that he would want to chase Tyce. Right at the end of the run Tyce actually came and gave him a kiss while Whip was waiting on the end of a contact, Whip didn't take his eyes off me in anticipation of his release to keep going. I couldn't have been prouder of him in that moment but it took a long time to get there. Future pups have been raised differently and taught that "other dogs are boring" right from the start. They still get to play and hoon around during their "downtime" but when it is time to work or Mum has asked you to do something then the expectation is that all other dogs cease to exist in your mind. I believe that breed plays a part too. Some breeds are naturally more social and you will need to work harder at lowering the value of other dogs with them than you would with other breeds. It also depends on what you want to achieve with your dog. Are you looking to dog sports where they need to focus on you and ignore the presence of other dogs, or are you simply after a dog that you can take to the beach who will be accepting of Joe Public who comes along with his equally social dog and everyone has fun in the sand. Dog 1 would require a high value for you and the job at hand with little to know value for other dogs, Dog 2 would simply require you (or the food/toy in your hand) to be a higher value than the other dogs so you have a reliable recall and an acceptable degree of control over them in a social setting. Both situations would be an issue, however, if the value for you (and your bribery) was much lower than that of the other dogs. Unless of course, your dog never leaves the house or goes anywhere that an off lead recall is required. Everyone's situation is different.

Thanks for the above, I am after a family pet with the possibility of agility training when he gets older Given that, you want to be looking at a breeder who breeds for a lighter frame of dog. While there are heavy set labs doing agility, the jury is still out on how good that is for their joints in the long term. Aussielover does agility with her Wintoppi girl, she is a nicely built lab for performance, tall, lightly framed and agile. Working lines would be ideal for the agility side of things, but maybe not for the family pet side of it, they can be pretty full on in the average home :) The right breeder would help with picking a suitable pup though.

At least half our pack (if not all of them) would love to come and live with you :) I echo the comments to choose a breeder who homes with families often, they will have a better idea of which puppy will suit. It doesn't have to be show lines, however you will have a harder time finding a working breeder who knows their dogs well enough to be able to fit them perfectly in your life. They are around (being easy to live with inside and having a good off switch is one of our major breeding goals and we have placed in families with kids), but many have outdoor dogs and wouldn't place as much emphasis on "easy to live with".

The x7 didn't become part of your link so it doesn't work directly :) People need to click the link, then type x7 for it to work.

Some rather busy people too :) I know how exhausting we find a small litter when it comes to all the training and socialising etc, couldn't even comprehend 17 :)

Is it bad that we are currently packing up our house and have 2 jumbo boxes packed that are full of dog coats

We have 8 bitches in total, and 3 dogs. They are all pretty good together for the most part, but like dancinbcs said, we are one of the unlucky ones who have 2 bitches that just absolutely cannot be together. They used to be fine, until a few power struggles when the younger one hit sexual maturity (about 2ish) and then after she had her first litter at 3 it changed the dynamics in the pack quite severely and these 2 have clashed ever since. I have no doubt that these 2 would go at it to the death if given half a chance, so they are just never out together at the same time. Only exception is if we are at the beach, in the paddocks or dam etc as all petty differences are set aside when there is either work to be done or a ball to be retrieved. Wouldn't risk it around the house though when they are left to amuse themselves, or expected to just lie around. That is when they go looking for trouble... The older one (desexed) is a very dominant bitch and likes to stamp her authority given the chance. She is fine with all the other bitches in the house (although likes to tease one of the other desexed girls- see below :) ) and is fine with other dogs when out and about. She is great with puppies and is our main "Grandma" with the litters as she is just such a wonderful teacher. The younger bitch is generally speaking a pretty submissive girl, incredibly submissive to new dogs that she meets and has never had an issue with another dog. I think a lot of it stems from being very protective of the 3 daughters that we have here, and any bitch that is a potential threat is to be exterminated (where is Mr Rollyeyes when you need him...) Yep, we have one of them too :) Or she will just casually walk them into a corner, wait until the other bitch has had enough of the intimidation and ever so slightly lifts a lip or grumbles, and then BAM- she has her justification to go in! Never draws blood, but it is not a pretty event and we will always do our best to move her away at the first sign of trouble. It is always done to the same "bottom of the pack" desexed bitch, and usually out of boredom. Its like she wants to spice things up a little if the place is quiet... People that don't know her will often wonder why we give her a gruff "get out of it" or say her name roughly for seemingly no reason, but it is the little signs that we are familiar with that tell us things might brew, signs that people who don't know the dogs would never even pick up on. Usually the first sign is the other bitch moving away from her and lying down facing the other way, she can be a little overdramatic in her responses sometimes- which only brings on the attention of the offender who begins to wonder why she is acting so weird. Bloody bitches :laugh:

Probably depends on the dog, Charlie had one with buckles on it and he managed to get them caught on everything! At least the Velcro seems to pull apart if they happen to catch themselves on anything when you aren't there. I have never personally used a jacket to stop them getting wet all day, only for overnight warmth in the middle of winter. In saying that, we do have cheap waterproof ones we will slip on them for a quick toilet trip before coming back in the house (much easier to dry the feet of 11 dogs, rather than 11 coated dogs!) When mine were left outside though, I figured it was up to them what they did. If they didn't want to get wet, they sought shelter, if they chose to go out in the rain then they obviously weren't too bothered by it or feeling the cold.

Most dogs are pretty good at adapting. If it is cold, they will grow a thicker coat, then drop it once it starts to warm up. We put coats on some of ours during winter, but we are in the mountains near Canberra, we easily reach -10 overnight, and the main reason- we are cold so surely the big tough working dogs are too :laugh: Charlie hates the cold (and the heat...) so he lives in a jacket 24/7 during winter and tends to stay in bed all day. Our older dogs are jacketed at night (except for the really tough ones that sleep under the doona) and any with injuries, eg Delta has spondylosis in her spine so I make sure she stays rugged up in the cold. One of our small terriers has absolutely no undercoat and she freezes without a jacket, so she tends to live in hers 24/7 too. The other terrier is 15 and happy enough to potter around in her coat so we tend to leave it on her too. The young dogs don't wear them, except briefly for toileting in the rain. I wouldn't trust them not to eat them. They get polar fleece rugs to snuggle up in instead.

I guess it depends on what you mean by test? Scientific tests- we xray close to due date to get an idea of how many, any potentially blocking, any extra large etc. Non scientific- keeping an eye on gums etc to ensure they aren't dehydrated as our dogs don't tend to drink much, depending on the bitch (some of ours see dinner as an inconvenience) we keep an eye on their weight and make sure they aren't getting to thin (or fat as that can make labour more difficult). We keep an eye on any discharge, temperature recordings closer to the time and just generally look for any signs that she isnt her normal self (all things considered of course :) )

If all she is doing is jumping up to sleep I see no issue with it. If she is using the bed repeatedly as an obstacle in a zoomies race then that might be a different story though :laugh:

We have never needed to send any dogs away, although we did have a baby gate up initially as Mum used to get agitated with too many around. Once puppies became more mobile they had x-pens round their area as well so always a safe guard in place. I know of plenty of bitches who are more than accommodating of other dogs and are happy to have them close by, you probably won't know until they are born. That isn't to say you may not have a gut feeling already, we knew before the first litter that there were some dogs Link was not going to allow any where near and would likely attack (as opposed to telling off), but they were other bitches that she barely tolerates at the best of times. The old girl of the pack lay on the mattress beside the whelping box throughout both births and watched. If you think it is going to be easier for you to focus on your girl (and fairer on your boy as he may miss some of your attention initially) then by all means give him a holiday :) The first few days our pack tends to get neglected a little as we are monitoring babies so much (and oohing and ahhing at them lol). Tailwag sleeps on the mattress beside the box for the first few weeks, so the boy who normally sleeps with her misses her at night (and has to contend with sharing my bed instead :laugh: ) He hates puppies though so would never entertain the thought of putting him near them all night.

I wouldn't be happy at all as a breeder, but then I wouldn't be happy with myself either for homing a female pup in a home where they had an entire male and no foolproof method of keeping them separate. Dogs and bitches will do whatever they can to get to each other, I would have wanted a little more security than 1 inside 1 outside, or I would have offered to take the bitch back during seasons to be safe. Surely the possibility would have entered the breeders mind when choosing that home, that they have an entire male and accidents can happen? I would much prefer to be told when it first became a possibility, than to find out after the pups are born. It would feel like this person I entrusted with one of my dogs was keeping things from me. As far as the late stage abortion goes, not all vets are going to be comfortable doing it. It is a huge emotional ask on them to open up a dog, take out otherwise healthy, fully developed puppies and end their life. Some vets can switch their emotions off and do it, many cannot though and I would never think ill of a vet for choosing not to do an abortion at this stage of pregnancy. Same goes for not reviving pups during C-section, some will be able to do it, many will not. That is human nature. As for the original vet, I'd like to give them a slap upside the head.

we took Shock and Fuze to the same puppy school. I don't think they even realised though, they weree too busy showing off to all the easily impressed owners with treats :laugh: If they were though, I would have used it as a focus exercise as down the track we expected them to be able to work in close proximity to each other.