DeltaCharlie

We have never treated for fleas and never had a problem with them, never occurred to me that the scalibor might have something to do with that :laugh:

definitely recommend the Silvia trkman dvds. Cik and Cap are her collection cues so that DVD is all about collection, or the foundation also covers a reasonable amount with ideas for teaching other handling (serps etc). We have both and also did her online foundation class with the youngest 2. It was definitely worth it, she gives great feedback and really quick too.

We live in a very high tick area, but we do all we can to limit exposure for the dogs. Their day runs are set up inside a garage, they only have access to a small, cleared yard for toileting, and when they are outside that yard it is usually for controlled exercise (fetching, training, soccer etc) where we don't set them up to be anywhere near trees or shrubs. Otherwise, they are free running in a cleared park or at the beach (where we deliberately avoid beach access that involves bush to the side of the paths). All of these precautions are more for snake avoidance, but it doubles as tick avoidance too :) Our dogs are not permitted in long grass either.

Very happy with the scalibor collars, we only have to buy 10 as 4 of the dogs are small enough to share one (we use the buckle end for the BCs and cable tie the terrier's collars as they rarely swim so don't need to remove them). So its only $150 every 3 months. Nexgard would set us back close to that every month. Not that cost is everything in terms of our dog's lives and we would be up for a lot more than that to treat tick paralysis, but given we have never had an issue with the scalibor collars I don't feel the need to change :) That isn't to say we won't try it out in the future though.

BC Crazy, definitely not one to use with any dog prone to seizures. Because they are neurotoxins (Comfortis and Nexguard) they should not be used with any dog that has an existing neurological condition. We considered it with most of ours, but really not cost effective when you have 12 dogs. We will be sticking with the scalibor collars.

No idea where the camera is as we are living between 2 houses at the moment and they are 6hrs apart (not sure where the harddrive with photos is either), but I do have video if that counts haha This was a few days after buying the camera, trying to experiment with different settings etc. The dogs of course all thought it must be a toy!

When we lived near the border of ACT/NSW we were advised to have a prefix with both associations as the house was in NSW (so pups registered with DogsNSW) but our vet was in the ACT if a c-section was required.

I was always under the impression that dogs who spent a lot of time outside should have wet noses, dogs that are predominantly inside will have dry noses. I can't remember the reason for it, but if yours are rarely outside that could be why? If its a problem I would be giving the coconut oil a try :)

I was under the impression HW was fully grown (and therefore dangerous) at 6months. Never heard of 2-3 years before? It can be treated at any point up to the 6month mark without them being big enough to create an issue, after that it is recommended to have the blood test before commencing treatment.

I can't wait until we are in the position to get sheep again. I was really starting to get into it, Whip was working beautifully, Shock was 12months old and starting to switch on nicely, and then we moved to cattle country. Looking forward to getting them back on and giving baby Boost a look too.

The first time I went out there with Delta (Vickie you may have even been there) I couldn't stop thinking "oooh, I touched the sheepie!" every time she brought them to me :laugh: thank god she isnt one to run them into me, I was too busy trying to pat them haha. By the time I started training Whip I had got over the fascination with them enough to tell them off whenever they wanted to trip me over.

We do it every 3 months, 6 weeks is fine :)

Dash never dropped coat, bled or got swollen (until last week). She had tiny nipples and never gave us any indication that she was technically having a season. We would never have considered it had the vet not found the ovary.

A rather timely question. Our 12 year old bitch has just had surgery to remove her uterine stump and an ovary that was still in there. She was desexed 11.5 years ago but recently started showing signs of infection and became quite swollen (normally her girly bits are so small you can't find them!) Every 6 months or so she would become a pain in the arse, terrorising the other bitches and teasing the boys. The vet believes that she has been having regular seasons all her life, despite being desexed at a young age. Now we have to keep an eye on her as the vet thinks she is at risk of a flase pregnancy following this latest surgery. So yes, definitely possible :) None of our girls have been tattooed either.

I cannot trial my Salukis in a range of ANKC recognised breed specific disciplines (herding, RAFT, earth dog etc). I think this is completely appropriate. My Salukis were not bred for any of those disciplines, and those disciplines would not add anything to my breeding program, especially to my assessments about whether my Salukis were fit for function. Lure coursing is not just chasing a bag on a string. It was designed by sighthound people for sighthounds, for their physical characteristics and their breed specific aptitudes. In most countries the only breeds who can compete are sighthounds. I think some respect should be shown to the sighthound people who worked hard for recognition, because they were prepared to include an all breeds stream, understanding that other breeds had an interest. They could easily have just put up a proposal that was sighthound only. Just to add to this, people need to realise that it was designed for sighthounds, to test the suitability of dogs for breeding programs and to offer a more breed specific avenue for breeders to take (similar to herding, earthdog etc). It is the best simulation possible without using live rabbits (or lions :laugh: ) Taking note of that, people with other breeds do need to be vigilant. The courses are set to minimise injury risk to sighthounds, corners etc are placed with this in mind. My BCs love lure-coursing, and I enjoyed taking them when I lived in Sydney. However, they do not run in straightlines after the lure, they are constantly trying to "herd" it and will cut corners in anticipation and find themselves running a line that would never have been anticipated by the person who set the course. It can bring them through large holes in the ground etc that may never have deliberately been avoided (if it wasn't for the pesky working dogs!) Just something else to keep in mind. They have been generous enough to allow all breeds to participate, but never forget that this is not what the other breeds were bred for, it is just a fun activity for them. I think it is great that more and more breeds in Australia are having breed-specific sports to participate in :)

That is awesome news- Well done to you both!!!

Biggest concerns this time of the year would be snakes and ticks. I used to take mine swimming at Emu Plain in a small runoff from the Nepean River. Its mostly open field and grass (I kept to the 4wd tracks) but it is a beautiful place and the dogs used to love it :)

We have a couple of border collies who sleep in 30" crates, they will be plenty big enough for yours :) Our little dogs (2.5kg and 5kg) have 26" crates.

Not sure, it still sounds as though you are saying the dogs are bred for performance or dog sports rather than for their ability to work. Working ethic in those dogs is still paramount, if people source them for performance rather than work it shouldn't be held against them. There are working people who will not sell their dogs to agility homes for fear of having their reputation tarnished. Even though the characteristics (structure, work ethic, flexibility/agility) of a good working dog actually lend themselves quite well to dog sports.

Not sure why they would be called sporting lines? They are working lines, the dogs are bred to work and they do work every day. They are also Main Registered. Karen has to come to Australia from the UK and brought her lines with her. A working dog will evolve through careful breeding to better suit the conditions and task at hand. These lines are UK based, not American, so it would make sense that the lines have begun to look a lot more like a BC, as they are bred to work in similar conditions to those which the BC was originally bred for. Does that make sense? I guess the issue with using a standard to judge a working dog is that they are not 1 size fits all. You would need a different standard for a dog that works the paddock, a dog that works the yard, a dog bred for droving, a dog bred for tending, a dog that works cattle, a dog that works sheep, an allrounder dog, etc.

That is what I was trying to say :) But put much better!

I actually agree with you for the most part there, so probably didn't explain myself properly. I actually used it as a way of trying to explain why there is such a big divide between the lines :) I'm not sure what it is like in other breeds for this, so can only comment from the BC point of view. An example of what I mean by an aspect of the breed would be ear set. Sheep couldn't really give a rats what the ears look like on a dog, so for a working person that is the last thing they would look for. However, if the ears are pricked (allowed in every other country but ours) then the dog technically doesn't tick all the boxes and shouldn't be bred from. Never mind that it is the best worker produced in years and has structure and temperament to die for, its ears are wrong. Or perhaps it has a white spot on its back, or it has hardly any white on it at all. To me they are trivial things, a border collie is more than that. In the ideal world, a border collie would never be bred from unless it had the instinct and ability to work well. That will never happen though. Most breeders do not have access to sheep or the time to work their dogs on them. Instinct is not a requirement in the show ring, they are not judged on it, so the dogs are bred for their appearances and movement. Breed for a few generations and unfortunately you lose a lot of the instinct from your lines. It will still pop up here and there, but if it is not focused on then it will filter out. I don't agree with this, to me a BC is a working dog and that is not a box that can be ignored. Its why our dogs are always coming from imported lines, we want a dog that has retained that instinct and ability. Then, we work the dogs and determine whether or not they are suitable for breeding. Not every puppy in a litter will be a great worker, so breeding without even considering that is something I can't quite fathom.

I agree, and there are people trying to do it. My Whip has an ISDS, main registered father but his mother is from show lines. Ann is trying hard to bring the working lines back into the MR lines, but most of them will never be "show type" no matter how good their structure is, they just don't fit the preconceived image of what a BC is. There are people trying hard to get all colours and coat types recognised but it is a long way off. They will never accommodate the size range though, because BCs come in all shapes and sizes. You get thickset dogs working in the cattle yards, light-framed rangy looking dogs working the paddocks, and anything in between. It is a breed used for too many different purposes to be able to label a particular type as being ideal. I agree with you about people not prepared for a BC not having one rather than breeding low energy ones to suit. I actually think a working line dog (depending on the lines) would be a better suit for most families as they are bred to have an offswitch. A dog that bugs the farmer all day for something to do will not last very long! They are expected to amuse themselves until called upon. I was thinking more along the lines of something like a labrador. I lived next door to working line labs for a few years and there is no way I could picture either of them as Guide Dogs :) Both useful lines to have, but bred for very different purposes. I tend to think as far as structure goes, that if the dogs from those lines are working all day, every day for their entire lives then their structure can't be too bad :D They may not fit into the rules per se, but if they weren't up to the task structurally then they wouldn't be bred from either. I think you would find though, that most of them have actually got great structure, it is just tested in a different way. Kinda a version of natural selection rather than someone measuring how long their hock is, the structure is proven practically rather than scientifically. Although we pay more attention to structure and angles etc because we are also breeding with performance sports in mind, and the dogs need to be built in such a way that they can handle that additional stress on their bodies.

In the ideal world, yes :) There are many working-line BCs in the UK who are also shown and do well. Unfortunately, many of those dogs would not be given MR in Aus due to their colour or coat. It is important to remember that a show standard is written to suit the most common characteristics of a dog and anything else is faulted. In the working world those faults are overlooked and the dog is looked at as a whole package and judged on its ability to do the task at hand. With every generation bred the lines will move further apart. As an example, with the Border Collies there has become a big divide between the lines. Some of it is for practical reasons, eg short coat is preferred by most working people in Aus as it doesn't knot, doesn't weigh the dog down when wet, doesn't gather as many burrs and grass seeds, and is generally easier to maintain. Yet in Australia, smooth coat is not permitted on MR. Others are more aesthetic reasons, particular coat colours do better in the show ring, some prefer symmetrical markings, big coats are flashy etc. If you are on a sheep station on the other hand, you couldn't care less what the dog looked like so long as it made your life easier. Both worlds are very competitive and no matter what you are doing with your dogs you are going to strive for the best. If you are breeding for the show ring you are going to breed dogs that are suited for that purpose, and look the part. If you are breeding for work then you are going to be breeding your best workers. No dog will ever be perfect (although I'm sure a few come close :) ). You cannot breed for every single aspect of the breed, so people focus on a few. I believe regardless of your purpose, a solid temperament should always be right up there in priorities, other things will vary depending on what you are trying to achieve. For some that may be a particular colour, show standard structure and flowing movement. For others it will be that x-factor that nobody can name but is found in all the best working dogs. If you have that x-factor and a dog that is built to work all day every day for its entire life without ever breaking down then you couldn't care less what colour the dog is or how its ears sit on its head. The more you focus on one aspect, the more you will filter out other aspects. A line of dogs bred purely for their ability to conform to the standard will not retain the same ability to work stock as a line of dogs bred purely for their ability to work (and would likely be laughed out of the show ring). Its not necessarily a bad thing, I guess. After all, some of the working lines (regardless of breed) would not make suitable backyard pets. Having the often lower-key show equivalent allows more people access to the breed and provides everyone with a dog that suits them.

Gooch (potential husband for Rush next year) Working ESS (She actually belongs to a DOLer) MR lines Working Kelpie (not sure of his registration, his prefix was Spinifex and they did have MR lines) Working Aussie (if I was ever to cross to the dark side I love these Flatout lines and would head there :) ) Can't find a better pic sorry.