KitKat

Rather then cabbage i would suggest grated carrot...it will leave them feeling full without adding 'weight' etc. but it also won't make them farty like cabbage will

Good luck Elka...Bronx and i are thinking of you

WA's Natural Balance - Available from Here

That is very much your opinion! Advance i believe is made in Aus and it is a super premium kibble. Royal Canin is made O/S and it is also a super premium kibble. And actually there is a super premium kibble (Natural Balance that is made in Western Australia that is slowly becoming available thru many vets etc. They have a website i just can't remember it off hand. All i've heard is good reports about this stuff as well, and it's not as high priced as the other SP kibbles. Here Innova is only available thru Pets Paradise and that's just one reason why i wouldn't buy it, but even that is my opinion and the other reasons are my opinion as well, hence it's not worth me listing them I'm glad you have your opinion...but it's incorrect to push it as if only the foods you like should even be considered. You make it out as if those people who don't use those you listed are feeding their dogs something the equivelent of meaty bites ' I've even had bad reports re Eagle Pack, and it's one of the foods i often recommend Back on topic tho...further to what i mentioned before many people also add beef or chicken mince to the kibble 'slurry' which gives the bitch and pups a little extra as well And i believe Di-vetalac (sp?) is also a good suppliment. If the pet shops in your area can't get that or biolac for you then your vet will be able to get it if they haven't already got it in stock. Both can be mixed with something to make a slurry etc (which you slowly dry out till it becomes solids etc) or you can suppliment bottle feed them if needs be.

Royal Canin has a 'starter' puppy formula which is just a kibble that you soak and feed to mum and pups. Advance also had a 'puppy rehydratable' which you do the same with, add water and feed to mum and pups Not sure if that's what was being talked about...but i figure they are both super premium kibbles so not a bad start

I'm doing better...i know what i did was the right thing and Harm has also shown up in a few nice peaceful dreams leaving me in the same state when i wake up and remember them and that's helping as well. Bronx has been a bit 'thrown' by it all, lucky for me a friend has let me babysit her young boy so Bronx has got company (and learning what it is like to 'supervise' another dog) and Duke is getting a break from the secret bitches business going on in his pack at the moment ETA - Just want to say thank you again for all your warm and kind comments

If you do a search in this Forum you will find a number of threads about KC...most of them have home remedies and experiances etc noted in them...

I'd also say have a look at Natural Balance from WA (made in WA and all) there is some info on the PricelessPets website, but if you do a Google search for Aus site then you should bring it up. They'll also send you out a sample as well if you ask.

You can also get a comb that looks likes a fishscaler...they are really good for a short coated dog...the 'comb' part of it looks like a curled around blunt hacksaw blade...in fact you can use a blunted hacksaw blade, you'd just have to hold the ends together so that you get the good curve going

Would it be worth trying her with a turkey neck? Just thinking that if she likes chicken necks she might like turkey necks...and there is so much more of a turkey neck

Fly Free little Annie It is indeed a terrible decision to have to make, but sometimes we have to be strong enough to make it for their sake. My thoughts are with you.

Malamum...it could be because Roo is a very rich and very very lean meat, and the snow breeds might just not get enough fat out of it to power them up. And if they were on a fair amount of it they'd perhaps not be able to keep their condition up enough? Also i have been told (so not sure how true it is) that many snow breeds can have sensitivities with red meats or the richer red meats at least.

Think he swallowed it whole? Glad to here things are moving along nicely again

Thanks you so much for your kind words and thoughts. I think i will be saving this thread a little later...for all that i end up in tears reading it, i still get a warm feeling reading it all.

After discussions with my vet i made the decision to let my Heartdog, Harm, be PTS. This was done at midday today, he slipped away while being held within my arms. There will never be another like him, he was a lovely dog, a great alpha and a loving friend. He stood with me through a lot of things and today was probably one of the hardest things i've ever had to do. As this is the last day of the year, it is almost fitting that it be his last day also. Tomorrow will be another day, another year and Harm will not be forgotten and will be forever missed. A Pet's Prayer If it should be that I grow frail and weak And pain should keep me from my sleep Then you must do what must be done For this last battle can't be won You will be sad I understand Don't let your grief then stay your hand For this day, more than all the rest Your love and friendship stand the test We've had so many happy years what is to come can hold no fears You'd not want me to suffer, so when the time comes, please let me go. Take me where my needs they'll tend only...stay with me right to the end and hold me firm and speak to me until my eyes no longer see I know in time, you will see it is a kindness you do to me although my tail its last was waved from pain and suffering I've been saved Don't grieve. It should be you who decides this thing you do we've been so close, we two these years don't let your heart hold any tears Smile: for we walked together for a little while May he rest in the sunlight within the Mothers garden until it's my time to claim him again. Rest Well Harm

I use several of their products... and my 'tip' would be that most of the products can be watered down and used in a spray bottle...makes the stuff go further and makes it easier to use as much as anything else

Fly Free Sweet Jessie :p

The ear cleaners are often an alcohol based liquid that you squeezeme in the ear squidge it around and then let them shake it out, once that's done you wipe out with a soft cloth. Leo ear cleaner is redily available pretty much everywhere.

Also perhaps look at what she is being fed...she could be having a slight reaction to the food she is on...sometimes wheat can cause problems etc...or yeast...

That's great...but actually give people options, tell of your experiances...but don't push the 'product' as if it's the only good/decent thing to feed your dog. It would be like me pushing RC as the only way to go since it's what one of my dogs does well on :p I promo a dry food as a part time job (trust me, it's for the enjoyment of meeting/helping people rather then the money lol), but i don't just push push push my product, i'll offer my help on any of the foods. However i do try and steer people towards the Super Premium kibbles as i think they are the way to go if feeding dry food. However i also include info on BARF - eg - "The super premium foods or barf are the better options available for your dog" etc etc. If they ask for more info on BARF i give them a quick rundown and advise them to google it I give people the option...i don't just say "buy this particular brand, otherwise you aren't doing right by your dog" And the best you can do for your dog...is feed them what they do well on whether that be Barf, kibble or ham and cheese sandwiches :p As to recreational bones, they to me mean those huge cow legs bones etc...i very rarely use them as i could toooo easily imagine my dogs snapping a tooth on them. The bones my dogs got/get are turkey (bums, wings, legs, necks), chicken (necks, wings, legs, maryland, whole, and frames), lamb (necks, flaps, offcuts), beef (soup bones, necks, ribs), pork (hocks, ribs, trotters, offcuts) etc etc. In fact tonight the boys dinner is a large pork hock each as i managed to get six of them at a pretty good price Showdog - ;) and i so like that little cheer smilie :p

Lillysmum, the petmince from Leonards is minced chicken frames...it is full of meat and bone with some fat and perhaps giblets mixed in as well. It's not to be cooked, it's not just straight meat and nor is it just the crap off the floor as is the case with some places If i was to drop back in kibble i wouldn't go further back then say SuperCoat, Bonnie or Optimum...all readily available but cheaper in the big bags ($30 odd for 15-20kg's) from the bigger petshops/produce stores. Also a nice mix of cheap good butchers mince, marked down bones, Coles often does lamb offcuts at $1.99kg, and such when you see it will also make the kibble go further and the dogs will think it's great getting all the 'treats' lol.

When did i say my dog can't tolerate 'fresh, whole, raw foods'? It's not the raw food that's the problem....the problem is when it's his complete diet, i tried just lamb, just turkey, just chicken, just beef as the meat sources...didn't matter. Knocked back the amount and up'ed the kibble again and problems went away quickly. EG he put weight back on, in that his ribs, hips and backbone didn't reach out and smack you for which i was grateful. It just means that BARF as a complete diet does not suit my dog...so be it. It doesn't bother me any at all, my boys get bones a couple of times a week, sometimes as part of the meal sometimes as the entire daily ration...depends on what i get. I mean read what i wrote rather then jump on something and running with it and trying to make me feel 'guilty perhaps?' in the process. Well...My older boy who is 9 and a half or so was fed a kibble, and cheap kibble at that, for most of his life. He'd get leftovers, scraps and bones once a week or so but that was his diet...and his teeth have never been 'cleaned' nor needed it. And using the teeth idea isn't going to make me feel guilty either...seeing as i have seen several dogs with worn or broken teeth due to a high bone diet For every high point i can give you a low point...but then again i see benefits in both types of diets...which you obviously can't. Tried that...made no difference, put him on a higher percentage of Royal Canin and his condition improved...i'm not arguing with the result...i'm just happy that my dog is looking good now. If he had done better on BARF i would have stuck with that...hell if he'd done better on fish and chips he'd be on that for the rest of his days....don't care what i have to buy...i'll feed him what suits him. Perhaps for many it is....but it wasn't for me, especially since one of my boys wasn't doing well on it I was feeding one older dog who is 40kg's and a pup who at 16months is now 45kg's. And an 'intolerance' if anything like my reaction to seafood means that the body will reject the food at all costs...even a smidgen of it in something else will make me a very very sick chicken. My dogs love their bones and raw food, it just doesn't suit one of mine in regards to a complete full diet. I think what Showdog is getting at with the is Lillysmum's posts pushing Barf as if it is the only food that you should even consider feeding your dog. No matter that your dog may already be doing beautifully on what you are already feeding them. Hell, i don't particulaly like Hills kibble, just by personal preference...but i'm not out saying "that stuff's crap, you should feed this instead or you are harming your dog" Once again if your dog is doing well...and you are happy and your dog is healthy then there is no need to change unless YOU feel you want to try your dog on something else.

;) And to the rest of your post I tired the BARF diet with my dogs, with my older dog his condition didn't change, but then again i'm lucky because he looks fantastic on any food. I swear i could feed him cardboard and he'd still look good My young GSD on the other hand...his condition dropped on it, i was having to feed him waaaay more then the recommended amount to stop him from looking severly underfed, his nose went all dry and crusty, and his coat lessened in condition. That was feeding him by the book and i ended up putting more stuff in the diet to try and combat the dryness etc. Within two weeks of me putting him onto mostly Royal Canin but still with extras - eg, bones, turkey pieces, sardines every so often, egg once a week etc he was looking perfect again. But i know others who are BARF feeding their dogs and they look fantastic Just comes down to some dogs do better on some things and some dogs do better on other stuff As to you not being sure if Hills is the best - It is a Super Premium food along with Royal Canin, Advance, Eukaneuba, ProPlan, Nutrience and Eagle Pack...those being the most readily available ones anyway. If your dogs are looking good on what they are currently getting, then stick with it...only change if you feel the need to ETA - Well...my dogs are on a predominantly processed diet and they don't smell...well...not unless they've been rolling in something. In fact i had my GSD at work the other day and was asked if i had just given him a bath as his fur was lovely and he didn't smell...and i explained that he hadn't been bathed in about 2 months - the people asking were stunned I find dogs are more likely to have the doggy smell if not brushed enough or due to not being fed good quality food eg there might be something in the kibble that disagrees with them, eg colouring being a big one etc. Tho sometimes it is just the dog..lol. I check my dogs teeth on a regular basis, even after meals on occasion and i've never had food stick to their teeth? mind you several times i have had to pry bones out of their mouths due to them getting lodged on back teeth. If you check the kibble, the bits are either to small to stick and get hoovered up anyway or they are large enough that the dogs crunch it doing a lighter version of bones. But are much less likely to tear the gumline, lodge beside teeth etc. Not that i am against bones, this is just something we all have to take note of when feeling them such things -or perhaps it's just me But my dogs are supervised when eating bones these days. It can indeed be cheaper if you get a good supplier, however when i looked back over it i was spending more money then i do now on food, perhaps due to the simply huge amount i was going thru trying to keep condition on my non BARF suitable dog. This may be the case for dogs who have allergies to certain additives etc, but i've only taken my dogs to the vets due to injuries that were not food related, and vaccinations. I have also personally hear of dogs going to the vets due to impacted bowels, and blockages to be dealt with because they could not process the bones adequately...and they were by the book Barf'ers. Unless the dogs are not being fed an adequate diet IMO this isn't a particularly good argument...i'm sure i could give a good argument for both sides of this just from what i know. Once again...it all comes down to what you are happy to feed your dog and what it does well on...Quality processed food, Barf, mix of both, whatever ;)

I was barfing...but it didn't suit my GSD so i have gone back to Royal Canin with great results Basically with dry foods the details are... Super Premium foods - Royal Canin, Eukaneuba, Eagle Pack, Nutrience, Hills Science Diet, ProPlan, Advance..i think that's most of them that are easily available. Premium Foods - Iams Good foods - Bonnie, Super Coat, Optimum, Performance The high energy supercoat just has more fat and protien then the normal one, so that a high energy dog has more to use before losing condition etc. Raw/Barf diets are great if they suit your dog, unfortunately it didn't suit my dog as well as RC did, he still gets bones, chicken/turkey wings, necks etc etc, lamb, pork, beef pieces and bones etc etc,and vegies on occasion but it's not his complete diet.

Is there the chance that the pup has had a growth spurt and he hasn't caught up on the condition yet? I know when my Bronx was growing i kept him lean but occasionally he would have a sudden growth spurt and look all scrawny. In fact even at 16months he still does it to me...at one point i was feeding him 1kg or more of food a day just to get the condition back on to him and it wasn't like he wasn't getting enough food to start with. Also this guy could be under a vets instruction, one vet i went to got up me for Bronx being to heavy since at the age he was he should have been 15kg's less and not as tall