Quickasyoucan

I'm halfway through the report but I thought it did talk about puppy farms, certainly it did in the bits I read and said the overwhelming majority of respondees were concerned about puppy farming. I have to admit to being confused by the genetics chapter but so far there have been quite a few mentions of non-pedigree dogs. I like the way too that he refers to purebred as a different category ie dogs that are not from registered breeders. From what I understood about the genetics chapter too he seemed to be saying that unbridled outcrossing was not a good thing either, though I have to admit I struggled with the language in that and the welfare chapter. I think it is important though that the MDBA have clearly stated the dog "world" is not the same in the UK and Australia, I have seen many differences in my time here, the most telling being the lack of pedigree dogs v overwhelming number of bitsa and DD.

1 x medium crossbreed (staffordish looking with a bit of working breed thrown in possibly BC). Approx 350m2 but not used for exercise except the odd game of dog soccer. Inside except when I am out in the yard (his choice we have a dog door). Exercised 3 times daily - weekdays off leash/bit of training 30-40 mins early morning, 45-1hr leash walk afternoon, 45 min leash walk evening. Weekends tends to be more off leash/swimming etc.

I think it raises a number of good points: BSL Puppy Farms Responsibility of the public in dog welfare At least it is not just jumping on pedigree breeders, although I note the RSPCA is. Geez that has got to be better than the one-eyed stuff that is going on here.

yay PF and moreover, what is bidability? you can have DA dogs that are extremely bidable and you can nervous dogs that are extremely bidable you can even have some dogs that are so friendly and so bidable that they are almost idiotic evrything that you think you might 'exclude' to breed 'bidable' can actually coexist with bidable quite well. it's not really 'bidability' or 'friendliness' ar any other amiable euphemism that makes a dog good with children, safe with the infirm etc but rather its a dog's nerve which determines its dependability and predicatability (and the dependability and depth of 'bidability')all other traits fall into place with nerve - because its nerve which dictates how a dog's innate responses will interact and be expressed. Well said Lilli and IMO I think it is the stafford's strong nerve that makes it good with children, it is also the same strong nerve that was part of what made it such a good fighting dog in the past. Take away the strong nerves and you might get a nervous but perhaps, "biddable" pet, I would rather expose a child to a strong nerved dog than a nervous one any day. In fact the more I have learnt about dogs and the more that I understand about behaviour the more it makes one of my prime "must haves" in a dog good nerves, regardless of breed, cross breed etc. It fits with my lifestyle, not because I will constantly allow a dog to be taunted by children but because my dog will be exposed to children in public and with relatives. I was lucky with my dog, who is a crossbreed with a somewhat stafford appearance as he has the great nerves what the horse people would probably call "bombproof". As and when I get another dog though, I will either be going to a reputable breeder and doing a lot of research so that I get support and the predictability of a purebred or I will be enlisting the services of a professional to ensure that any rescue I take on has the temperament that is suitable for my lifestyle.

Still think we should be Building Better Humans first ... Most of the ones I have met, specially romantically have been a bit of a disappointment Sorry completely off topic. ETA if anyone is building one can I have mine looking like this, cradle snatcher that I am...

I agree with this but I think it is important to define things like basic care. It seems that the public's definition of basic care can be very different to what we would consider basic care. For example if you watch those American rescue programs often they say that something way below what I would consider adequate shelter meets the legal definition of "shelter". I also agree wholeheartedly with the statement that responsible dog owners abide by the law, indeed I think those owners that don't are setting the rest of us up for a further loss of our canine rights. However, I think that I would take this further by saying a responsible owner makes sure that their dog is a good canine citizen, for me that would be a dog that makes minimal negative impact on: - the environment - ie the owner cleans up after their dog on all occasions. - other people and animals - for me this includes not allowing your dog, however friendly, to run up to, molest or generally annoy other people or their animals. Of course their are many positives to interaction with dogs but not everyone or everything shares our love of canines and we have to respect that. For me a responsible owner seeks to have a dog that behaves appropriately at all times in public, but who equally is happy, stimulated, fed correctly (and that includes not being overfed) and healthy.

I had my dog done, everyone thinks he is a stafford x probably kelpie. He came back as about 11% stafford and about 18% border collie, rest unknown (well possibly a bit of weimeraner but probably only about 7% so not statistically significant). I do find myself struggling to find the border collie in his expressions at times! So I kinda got the results I expected except I was thinking kelpie and much more stafford influence. But I guess people can take after their grandparents so maybe that holds true in the dog world too and a grandparent was a stafford with strong genes!! Ruthless had here stafford x done and it came back as stafford x unknown! ;)

I find something quite creepy in the title "Building Better Dogs", these are dogs, not buildings.. That said, if the seminar was in Sydney I would go, I would hope that I was given the chance to air my misgivings about the lack of "welfare" involved in mass random breeding of companion animals in "farms" and be provided with a response that might address my misgivings. I would love to see the welfare of companion animals properly addressed but I believe it goes far beyond an idealistic concept of the building the perfect 'companion animal'. I am sure if our companion animals could speak they would say appalling rate of euthanasia in Australia even compared to countries like the UK is probably the most pressing welfare issue they come across, there isn't much "well" in being dead. The treatment of companion animals by the public after they are purchased is also a huge issue. The ideal "companion" animal is not just "bred" it is "made" by the people who bring it up. The concept of "Building Better Dogs" takes the responsibility away from the pet owner when every person who has any smidgeon of an idea about dog behaviour knows that, whilst genetics plays a part, environment plays a huge role in whether a dog becomes a good canine citizen or a bad one. It scares me that people seriously think they can breed something that automatically morphs into the perfect companion without any thought that some input or work might be needed on their part. The point of origin and nature of origin is of course important, health, breeding environment, follow up from reputable breeder for the lifetime of a dog. As I've said before I don't have a problem with the proper regulation of ALL breeders, but it has to be fair, equitable and with the best interests of the dog in mind not some agenda driven legislation that benefits a few.

My crossbreed rescue dog (bit of stafford, bit of working dog) has had poppy/clicky back legs since I got him 6 years ago. Up until last year he showed no signs of lameness just the popping on stretching and getting up intermittently but he has now some mild problems. An x-ray last year showed mild HD in one hip, but I think the clicking is the stifle area. We are now seeing an orthopaedic specialist next week as my generalist vet thinks cruciate. I did go to the chiro middle of last year and he thought the cruciates were stable and couldn't hear the clicking at that time on exam. Anyway in my long-winded way I am echoing get it checked out now as you don't want to have issues later on.

You soon might not need to bother. Because RSPCA (Victoria)'s "Priority Wishlist" includes banning the use of "aversion therapy" and "positive punishment" in dog training. Now, just have a think about what "aversion therapy" would and could include. The list would be endless. Sounds like it might be time for you to move from the nanny state, Erny.

The simple solution is to let dogs attack skateboards. Then either kids will stop riding them on the streets or evolution will take care of business I sound so old... Look I was thiking of campaigning at the next election on the BS ticket (Ban Skateboards ), but there is too much BS in politics already

I agree with that principle but I should add that I once ran a class for dogs who were bike chasers, some of whom were very aggressive in their pursuit. You might be surprised at how quickly this can be done. We ran the classes for, from memory, 8 weeks at which point every dog passed an off-leash test with a bike at high speed coming very closely coming from both in front and behind them. This was a total of not much more than an 1h:20m actual training for each dog (about 10min per week). We used no compulsion at all. Handlers used food, nothing else. Handlers were nearly all novices. It should be noted that for some dogs the bikes themselves were aversive, so there was no way to avoid using -R, so for those dogs it was used to our advantage. Another reason it is silly to worry about which quadrant you are using all the time. But there were no collar corrections, verbal reprimands etc I'm still in touch with all these dog's owners and they regularly walk along bike tracks or tracks used by mountain bike riders, off-leash. If I'd had any thought in my head that I would have to "compete" with the reinforcement the dogs got from chasing the bikes I wouldn't have even begun the project. Instead I focussed on the real issues and got very reliable results, very quickly. +R is often the faster, more reliable option. The funny thing is we were never able to address the skateboard issue. Skateboards are a different kind of evil Actually the problem there was finding someone to ride one for us. Even if you pay these kids they still don't turn up, they are skaters! You know I meet so many people where skateboards are the issue for their dog. I think they must have a particular frequency to the sound of their wheels. The new 2 wheel skateboards don't hold nearly as much attraction for my dog, nor do those razor scooters the kids ride. Mine likes the old school skateboards, mind you he will trigger at the sound of something that sounds like a skateboard being dropped on the floor and at the sight of a skateboarder out the car window in the distance - when in the car he gives this kind of grumbly whimper as if to say "not fair". Food comes a second to any kind of prey for mine too, I have had kids eating sausage and waiving it in front of his face whilst I have his ball, he goes for the ball every time.

I believe there are variables to this ie, depending on how often the action has been reinforced (self reinforced), depending on whether the dog has successfully achieved full predatory drive sequence and/or whether it's just the thrill of the chase with no killing involved. It would be extremely difficult (albeit not impossible) to compete with a dog which has fulfilled the entire predatory drive sequence. I agree with the bolded bitand believe personally this is relevant to any ingrained self-satisfying behaviour. As I have posted before my dog is an inveterate skateboard obssessive. We have it under control through the use of aversives and finding more positive outlets for his prey drive, (ie a combination of postive and negative) but I believe the neural pathways are already hardwired to this behaviour so, without the aversives, there is no way it would be under control. Of course there is the element that I am no expert, but given that this could be a potentially dangerous behaviour, which do you choose, the solution that will work quickly and safely and which is within my (limited) training capabilities or what would undoubtedly be a long term project with no certainty of success using no compulsion at all. I think there are many situations akin to stock chasing which, given the laws we live under re dangerous dogs etc, mean that we need to find the most efficacious method of dealing with problem prey related behaviours. I can in theory see how you could train a dog without aversives, if the dog was a blank slate and you were extremely experienced and there were no genetic or personality factors in you or the dog preventing success, but that's an awful lot of ifs and for those of us with problems we have to live with certainties.

Wow he looks great for 10!! Happy birthday Rex.

Mine relates going down to Manly to skateboards unfortunately for me He very definitely relates physical location to his favourite (but definitely not mine) "work" of chasing them. He also seems to go into drive or to the edge of drive as we approach parks where he usually does training with me. He also triggers off the tv being switched off. The front gate clicking. The lead being picked up. The lid of a can being taken off. It is amusing watching them going from seemingly dead asleep to totally alert in seconds.

It's not inconsiderate. It's downright moronic and irresponsible I agree, I have a friend I walk with in the evenings who is working very hard (under a behaviourist) to rehabilitate her fear aggressive dog. We walk every night on leash and he is coming along really well. However there are several "regulars" who insist on walking their dogs off leash in our suburb. I have tried the nice approach, I have tried picking up one particular small dog who rushes us and handing it back to the owner telling them to put their dog on a leash, my friend has tried to say her dog has issues with small dogs so please put your dog on a lead, the response is "so your dog is a killer then". It is so unfair on people trying to do the right thing that people just won't put their dog on a lead in a public place. I also wish people would keep their kids under control too. Over the xmas period I lost count of how many strange children rushed up to us and bear hugged my dog before I had a chance to stop it. Now he loves it, big smile on his face ever time it happens, but you would think that with all the publicity surrounding dog attacks on children people would be more cautious.

Hmm plasma won't do, its LED or nothing Don't these people keep up with technology Why does it say opening soon in the first paragraph and then that someone's dog has already stayed there? Odd. Honestly so long as a dog is secure and safe, well looked after, gets appropriate exercise daily and interaction with people, is not too cold or too hot and gets good appropriate food, I think that is enough personally. That said, my dog has never been in kennels because I have great friends (with the biggest LCD ever ) who look after him, but if I did have to put him in that would be what I was looking for.

Yeah that does seem illogical to rev the dog up and then not use it I was thinking more though of dogs who already had strong drive responses and might just be channeling them into the wrong avenues out of frustration. For example, with my dog we never had a problem with building drive as he already had it he just used to satisfy himself with skateboards and (on a couple of occasions) a full fledged car chasing attempt. It was a case of all dressed up and only the wrong places to go to ETA I also think a basic understanding of drive (whether or not you choose to use it), does give you better insight into what motivates a dog (or not), not just your own dogs but other dogs you come across.

Too true Shoemonster, I also think there would be a lot less dogs who behaved badly pent up due to no positive outlet for their drive. I think sometimes prey drive is viewed negatively too by people, you know my dog won't stop chasing X when it can be harnessed to more useful ends...

Huh . Who's talking about Schutzhund here? And "gung-ho" with drive training? What do you mean? I consider myself an "average dog owner" in that I'm average though my dog thinks he is special and takes offence to being called average. We have done a TID workshop and a couple of others with Steve and have found it a great way to harness energy towards positive results and to use it for what average dog owners want ie basic obedience, good doggy citizenship. I'm not going in for any schutzhund titles any time soon Corvus, but I have found it great for the average dog owner!

Yeah I agree I think the name is misleading as you won't get true results (or potentially any) on a bitsa. Useful for those people whose dogs of unknown origin look purebred or almost purebred if they are curious. I did think my dog was probably stafford x kelpie has he has working dog kind of behaviours and his head is narrow and pointy and his legs longer. So I guess for me it confirmed albeit different breed of working dog, what I suspected it. I would have guessed more stafford in him too so I guess that was interesting. It probably reinforces that so called F1 crosses can come out looking like anything along the spectrum of their parents too.

If you have a spare $150 and are curious go for it. But don't expect a clear cut picture of your dog's heritage as you may not get clear results (or any results) if your dog is a true bitsa. Interestingly the dog in my avatar I just had done (obviously I have too much money :D ) comes back as more border collie than stafford!! He has twice as many bc markers as stafford, yet is mistaken for a "staffy" by inexperienced people almost every day in the street, he is short coated and black. However both these are what are defined as secondary breeds ie either his parents were mixed breed or possibly the grandparents were pure, that is he doesn't have a lot of either stafford or BC in him. They did not identify any primary breeds which would be the case for an F1 cross or a purebreed. It is not an exact science as my understanding from the info they send you is that some of the "signatures" are present in more than one breed so there can be crossover if your dog is a bitsa. Ruthless on here wanted to find out what her obviously stafford cross was mixed with hers came back primary stafford (so mum or dad was pure) but no secondary results so she has discovered nothing!

There's another book a friend of mine bought she found very good it is called Scaredy Dog, can't for the life of me remember who wrote it though

I think you could be a puppy walker for pf and just exchange for a younger version when 6 months old and ready for breeding from. Jokes aside (but only for a moment ) I think this is one of the factors that has shaped the development of some toy breeds. Large eyes (in comparison to head size) and small stature do maintain a puppy look for life in some breeds. It's called neoteny, the retention of juvenile features into adulthood and is believed by some as you said PF to have played a part in the selection/evolution process of some domestic dogs, see excerpt from wikipedia: "pets, such as dogs—which share many physical features with the immature wolf (these same traits were found during the development of the tame silver fox). Such puppy-like traits may have made early dogs seem "cute" and less threatening than wolves, leading to both natural and artificial selection of such dogs." Okay lesson over back to the fun!

Is that a rare sky bloo pink puddle? ETA: I love the sheep outfit such a perfect fit and the expression... priceless