Quickasyoucan

I actually can see how it can still be good. Say you have a dog that is drivey but chooses to satisfy this drive in a way that you don't want. I can see how separating even a very drivey dog from outside stimuli can help with focus in drive training, ie you would be building drive and focus on you for a particular object rather than something else. No point if even your driviest dog is wasting it on, say, chasing rabbits.

My vet was happy to give my my xrays when we went to a specialist. They asked that I return them when I was finished and Sydney Uni (the specialist) said they would scan them into their system, which they have done and I physically have the x-rays back. I guess it might vary and also mine was a generalist vet referring to a specialist not specialist to specialist.

I'm sorry totally off topic but 18 pups ;) does that make the bitch like Octomum? How does she feed them all? Was it madness at 6-8 weeks Centitout? What is a normal size litter for bloodhounds? OT- Yes,was pretty full on for a while :laugh:and no,not quite normal,but 12-14 is the norm.A uk breeder had a bitch that had 20 and had to handraise :rolleyes: OMG if that was a human they would have sold their story to the tabloids

I'm sorry totally off topic but 18 pups does that make the bitch like Octomum? How does she feed them all? Was it madness at 6-8 weeks Centitout? What is a normal size litter for bloodhounds?

We have just been to Sydney Uni Vet (the Camperdown Campus) for an orthopaedic consult and they were great. So thorough. Picked up on quite a few things my vet had not noticed (including my dog has an odd shaped pupil well actually a pupil and a bit in one eye ). Because perhaps they receive educational funding, I found them good value too. I am a believer in going to places where there is continuous research going on. They may also be able to tap into other universities' findings. They also have a campus and centre at Cobbity. Good luck with trying to find a cure for Charles, I know everyone wishes you the best and feels for you.

What about an Airedale. I got a thread started in 101 because they are a breed I am interested in but I haven't come across anyone with much experience with them. A friend has one and she is beautiful, but a pet only and I am not sure if representative of the breed. She just seems bouncy and happy to greet one and all.

Huski you'd be the "pet and basic OB" that yesmaam is talking about Obviously all that counts in the dog world is IPO. Never mind asking what level you might have got to and how far you might have come. Nor actually having any knowledge of what the TID course might involve not having done it. So we have someone who has no knowledge of the course stating that "we" know better without even identifying who we is and giving any proof that they have reached any level at all in training in drive. I actually thought at the beginning the OP asked whether anyone had "done" the course and could give their opinion. I also remember from previous posts not a few people who did attend clubs but were not getting the level of drive out of their dog (Shoemonster being one of them) but did the TID course with very good results to build drive and confidence. As someone stated in a previous post getting an already high drive dog to work in drive is not that hard, but getting drive out of a dog with high thresholds to drive who might previously have been labelled a failure is something we have proof of (through people posting their experiences) of people who have actually done K9's TID course.

I think that depends on the club and organisation. The organisation that our local club belongs to only allows certain breeds to do the protection phase and earn full Sch titles. But other breeds are allowed to do the obedience and tracking components, and can earn BH, OB1 - 3, TR1 - 3, FH1 - 2 titles. However, I don't think there are any allowances in jump heights or dumbbell weights for smaller breeds, so you might have trouble doing the obedience phase with a smaller breed anyway. Staranais, I looked at the IPO Rules and it said, "Only registered dogs from recognized AUSC working dog breeds are allowed to participate". ? Anyway for me it is moot, my dog probably wouldn't mind a group setting but I do. I am one of those labelled, "does not play well with others"! I prefer the one on one personal attention so I can sort my dogs issues out rather than a generic approach.

Have you done the K9 Force program, Yesmaam? I don't need to pay anyone to learn about this stuff. "We" have been training this way for years. What Steve does is good for some but if you want first hand experience from people who are actually out there trialling dogs using these methods then go to your local IPO club. The focus in an IPO club is competition not programs that cost you money depending on what you sign up for....... Who says you have to use TID for competition anyway? I couldn't give a monkeys about trialling of any type, but attending more than one of Steve's seminars has given me insights into ways of working with my pet dog that have improved both his and my quality of life. Problem with clubs as I see them is they can way be too focused on competition, they aren't interested in people who have below average talent! Not to mention some of the how shall I put it "know it all" characters that you come across with their own "expert" value judgements usually based on their own limited experience with their particular breed and "it's right because I have been doing it this way for so long". Steve doesn't care who you are or how bad or good you are he cares that you get the results you want out of your dog and that might not include being a trialling genius, competition is not the be all and end all of life. ETA Hmm not to mention just having googled IPO that it is only open to certain working breeds. A lot of the people posting here about their successes with the program would be excluded merely by the breed of their dog.

I would add a few to the list. Schnauzers, Tibetan Terriers, Bedlington Terriers, Kerry Blues etc. Probably take spinone off the list (for my allergies - don't know about others). So yes I think these dogs would appeal to oodle buyers - but the problem is they are hard to come by. My preferences would be poodles (smart, easy to train, comparatively easier to come by but still there are often waiting lists etc.), lagotto (very hard to come by), bichon (also hard to come by) etc etc. So it's not that there is a problem with the breeds and the variation and choice I don't think. It's just that the oodles are available quickly when people want them. Raises the next problem - if these purebreeds were ready when people wanted them (pretty much any time) then isn't that just more puppy farming? And encouraging irresponsible breeding of purebred dogs with lack of attention to health matters? For me that would just take us straight back down that same old road. I think Zug Zug raises an important point. One of the things the Bateson Report pointed out which I think is true is that the current consumer market actually fuels irresponsible breeding. The quote was something like the sad fact that the buyers turned away by ethical breeders will find their puppy from the unethical. Sorry I am paraphrasing as I don't have the report to hand. For me this is about public attitudes to owning dogs, it is less about what people are prepared to pay (that much is obvious from the amount people will part with for DD's), it is about the fact people believe they have the right to buy what they want when they want (ie instantly) without being questioned about their own lifestyle and whether they are suitable to be given the right to own a dog. And of course that is why so many dogs end up in pounds. I think this DD thing is part marketing but more so they are instantly available, no questions asked. I don't think for a second ethical breeders should change their high standards, I also don't think cross-breeding to a higher ethical standard would stop the dog welfare issue, if cross-breeders became more responsible, a lot of the I want it now owners would just stop buying from them too. Until there is a massive shift in the public awareness in the responsibility of owning a dog, I don't seen anything changing any time soon.

Maybe Im just cranky today and taking things the wrong way then

Thanks Aidan, I had no idea there was such a thing as google books! Oh boy, we'll see you in about 6 weeks then? Nup just prefer to get my books from libraries and academic sources thanks. Or peer reviews. Just because I don't buy from Amazon doesn't make me stupid, be careful about the assumptions you make about people Aidan that comes across as very condescending when it was a genuine query about the academic level of the books. Just because I don't have a professional qualification in dog behaviour doesn't make me incapable of reading a book. Part of what a tertiary education teaches you is to apply learning procedures across a wide range of subjects not just just a narrow field.

Thanks Aidan, I had no idea there was such a thing as google books!

Yeah so academic level or lots of technical jargon? I don't mind complex at all, or academic but if it is using technical language might need a dog dictionary

The guy sounds very very interesting, but I note in the other thread the NDTF says not for the average dog owner but for canine groups and professionals. Looking forward to the reports of the seminar though. Haven't read the books, those that have what level would you say they are at?

I too like his philosophies and I like to watch the way he instinctively interacts with dogs, particuarly those dogs that people have all but given up hope on. but that is his special talent and I don't think it is particularly transferable except in general terms that others have spoken of such at the treat dogs as dogs and exercise discipline affection mantras which I think have general application. The books are good from a general philosophy point of view and are easy reading. But he is the first to say he is not a dog trainer. Enjoy the DVD for entertainment, but better still invest the money in a one on one hands on session with a trainer to set you on the right course with your pup.

No Warley you mean Amstaff do you remember the chihuahua that turned out to be 1/4 Amstaff?

does this pic count as in drive given that it is the end of the predatory sequence or would that it be drive satisfaction? My dog would run through anything in drive but he stops whilst out on a lead walk if he gets a bindi in his foot and won't walk any further PS he does have a tail it just seems to have disappeared!!

Yeah it's kind of madness when you think about it. These dogs are dumped or strays in the first place and yet they are sent out again potentially to increase the dog population. So many of the bitches you see in pounds particularly the slightly older ones look like they have already been bred to buggery, its rare you don't see one with an undercarriage, they are probably due some relief from breeding its the least we humans can do.

Exactly, the families who didn't win the tender could have selected another dog, no-one had to miss out. I find the tender system strange but this just reads like another 'boo-hoo I didn't get what I wanted story'. Those animals should be desexed before any one gets to buy them regardless of how they want to sell them. Yes and that would solve the alleged problem that bybs are looking for breeding stock there. Anecdotally someone else has told me that that has been a problem but it is easily fixed with mandatory desexing. they could get a cheap desexing contract with a vet and make money by recouping the costs of desexing with a reasonable price. $60 is far too little for any dog. They ought to make it desexed and a few hundred.

No it does not and part of the problem in this regard is that when they make laws and guidelines they base their ideas on what boarding facilities are and what they need.Breeding dogs need different management ,different environmental conditions and different operating procedures. Dogs in boarding kennels are only there for a limited time and don't spend their entire lives on concrete miles away from humans.They need to see and interact with humans,other dogs and other animals more than just when its time to clean and feed. I so agree. the report does touch on these things, in that it talks about lack of adequate socialisation, early isolation of pups, but I can see it all getting "lost in translation" as the RSPCA jumps even heavier on the anti-purebreed bandwagon. In para 5.11 which is problems and potential solutions, out of 12 points raised (a. - l.) at least 7 relate either to breeding (irrespective of cross or pedigree)(e. and f.), public culpability (h). or puppy farming (a, k and l), but I guarantee the only ones that get the limelight are the pedigree ones. One thing that I do agree with when talking about dog welfare as a whole (rather than focussing on any issues within pedigree breeding) is that change has to also come from the consumer, as the report states: "Unfortunately in the case of dogs and puppy buying the market place malfunctions, in the sense that attention to good welfare on the part of breeders is not effectively rewarded by higher returns from their puppy sales and poor welfare is not penalised". I find it incredible when you drive through somewhere like Mosman that has a DD on every street corner that people don't stop to think where the pretty puppy might have come from and what conditions its poor mother might have lived in. So long as the consumer can pick what it wants when it wants point of origin does not seem to matter, good ethical registered breeders aren't rewarded (whether literally or emotionally) for being so, whilst the bad ones seem to get away scott free. Same thing in the report which states that teh majority of puppy farm dogs from Ireland or Wales find their way to the affluent south of England. I guess what I am trying to see is I wish that the spotlight would focus more firmly on dog welfare and less on minority. issues, otherwise it is blaming a few for the evils of a majority including very largely the public themselves. ETA: off topic but I note in the bio that Professor Bateson is a breeder of Egyptian Mau cats himself.

I have been thinking about this whilst I try and read the report, and whilst I am glad that the report does make reference to puppy farms and to the culpability of the consumer in the welfare of dogs in that it specifically mentions that people need to be educated to buy from a reputable source and to buy the right dog for their situation (paras 7.38 to 7.44) of the report, I think this is in danger of being lost amid the hype on inbreeding. I don't know anything about the allegations against the kennel club, so can't comment, but one thing where I do see similarity between the UK and Australia with perhaps Australia being worse (certainly in terms of euthanasia rates per human head of population), is in what the report calls treatment of dogs as commodities and the public culpability. I think too much focus is being put on pedigree dogs and not enough on what has surely got to be the biggest thing confronting dogs, namely public attitudes and the corresponding appalling euthanasia rates and mass breeding of companion animals. Personally I would like to see a decent media campaign on responsible ownership, penalties for irresponsible serial dumpers and abusers of dogs and proper monitoring of mass breeding facilities. Regardless of whether these dogs are kept in clean conditions and are properly fed, does life in a kennel with little or no human contact really constitute an adequate life for a companion animal?

I'm ploughing my way through this report and something about the inbreeding bit is bugging me. If I am understanding correctly what it is saying is that if you inbreed to an extent that you do not have a sustainably large gene pool the number whelping problems and health in general declines and there is not a large enough genetic variety to breed out any bad genes that might be discovered without having to resort to outcrossing. Why is it then that in situations where there is a small population not because of artificial selection but popularity etc, using for example Irish Terriers, which have never been a dog with large numbers, that you get a breed which has relatively few "genetic" health problems. From my reading the Irish Terrier only has one real identifiable "hereditary" disease and that is to do with corny feet? Just hoping someone with more knowledge can assist.

I hope that they are microchipping them according to NSW law? Wonder where they are selling them? Does seem very hypocritical, but then that's humans for you (not Christians) just humans in general. That's why I prefer animals.

I was hoping to post a pic of my dog behind the wheel of my car as an image in drive, he likes a high driving position.!