Tassie

Sorry can't help with the actual question … but just want to sympathise with the difficulties of having a young pup at this time, when it's much more difficult to do the sort of well puppy, meet the vet and have lots of cuddles and oohs and ahs .. that @persephone and I and lots of others would normally do within a day or two of getting the puppy.

Your first port of call should be your breeder .. .. maybe using something like messenger and sending a little video, with close ups, to ask the breeder if it's something you should be worried about.      If that doesn't set your mind at rest, then I'd say your options would be to contact your vet(or the vets you would be likely to use, and see if you have options of a teleconsult, with photos and video .. some are doing this, .. or a car park consult.  With such a baby, I'd be reluctant to do the handoff in the car park to a staff member to take through to the exam room, unless it was really necessary.

Good luck with you little one … and there are lots of great online resources about how you can do the necessary socialisation of your puppy in lockdown time …... getting pup used to different places, noises, people  .. all the things pup will encounter in normal life.

On 27/03/2020 at 1:59 PM, Annie's carer said:

I didnt know about the online vet.. thats really good to know of.

 

I'm so proud of my boy. The past 2 days he's eaten a bowl of chicken & rice  yet  not swallowed one grain of that rice.

I couldnt do that even  with a spoon & fork.

 

 

Today's happiness is.............. watching my boy pass a stool.

Its so good to know he's over  whatever it was.

 

Nice!!!!    On both counts.  

Doesn't take much to make us dog owners happy.    Hope his tummy is settling down now.

And just for future reference … mashed pumpkin seems to work well in settling down digestive upsets resulting in loose stools  .. otherwise well dog.

Lovely boy.     Do you have a vet acupuncturist anywhere near?  Different scenario, but my old BC girl seemed to get some benefits from acupuncture and PEMF and massage mat  Accell therapy mattress.    Something to work in conjunction with the drugs.

For her it might just have been a bit much a bit soon... It might be worth starting inside, and starting very small.  SO it might look like … sitting on the floor, play with her a bit .. simple stuff she knows .. like hand touch for a treat, or something like that .. fast, maybe moving your hand to different positions for the touch and high rewards.   Then, if she's in the game, try kneeling down and bending over and hiding your face and making funny squeaky noises  (you might actually incorporate those high pitched voice  and noises into the hand touch game to make sure she actually doesn't mind the noises, or better yet is associating them with the reward.)  Hopefully she will start to try to dig under your arms to find the treats you have near your face, so then you can have a party telling her how clever she is to have found you.      Assuming she is prepared to join you in this silly game, then you can gradually grow the challenges .. I'd stay inside until you feel she's really confident .. but you can do things like going partway behind a chair or something to make the noises, and then maybe burrow under a rug.   It is a baby puppy game, but for the moment, that's what she is .. so starting from there changes her emotional state (if that's what the problem was) or just convinces her that there is value in working to find you ..gradually having to work harder.

Might not work with her … but it could be fun trying …. and of course, there could be video to entertain us ………   just saying .

You can search in the Dogzonline Breeders page with a filter for New Zealand results only.    With giant breeds, I'd be looking for a breeder who has been in the breed for quite a while, and who does all the appropriate health testing and keeps up with developments in the breed .. so probably a breeder who shows dogs and who is familiar with and uses different lines appropriately .. i.e. not just using a pair of dogs they happen to have in the yard.   The breeds are quite different in my opinion, so it might be good to have a think about what you like in a particular breed.   And also to have a look at the life expectancy.

I've had one pup that was fussy for a few weeks after he arrived .. he was the one that threw up in his crate a couple of times on the way to the airport  .  He eventually ate kibble … Supercoat at that time.   But when my now 3 year old arrived, she had been raised on raw, so I started off with the Big Dog raw  BARF frozen patties  … easy, can get different varieties, and they have veg and ground bones etc.    I actually transitioned my older boy from kibble (Black Hawk at the time) over to the raw.    I'd suggest deciding on something and sticking to it ..at 16 weeks he's probably got you fairly well trained () but he's unlikely to starve himself. 

You've probably tried it, but an old fashioned recommendation for inappetent dogs is tinned cat food .. something like Whiskas Kitten food.  The nutrient value might not be great, but it seems that something like this can get them interested .. and sadly, when it's end of life care, we really just want them to be comfortable and eating something that they enjoy.

5 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Follow up.  I was immediately left sad by the absence of a warm body and eyes and wagging tail. As time goes on I'm finding the other dogs fill in the gaps. I don't think they are in mourning.  Quite the opposite.  Bonza, Patty's mother, age 10, has been more playful and Yoli, the youngest, has been less naughty. No point interpreting... only to say that there's more to dog society than I can predict. 

That's a bonus, that the others are doing well.   Yes … just no telling how the animals left behind will deal with the illness and loss of a companion.    But it does make it easier on the human if they're apparently coping fine.

That sounds horrible.  Not sure where you are in NT, but is it worth exploring whether there are any visiting vet ophthalmologists who visit your area.  (We're lucky down here to have one from Melbourne who comes down here every couple of months, and does some regional areas in Vic.

It's all a work in progress, isn't it .. but sounds like the progress is in the right direction!! 

36 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

I feel selfish saying so, but it's a relief.  Patty was an excellent bed dog.  Sharing a bed with a seriously ill dog, then worrying through vet appointments, wears you down. 

I know what you mean, @sandgrubber …..  many of us have been there .. sometimes more than once .. I always like to think that our dogs would not want us to feel guilty.  Our good dogs want the best for us, as we do for them.

Definitely talk to your vet .. and I would be asking about getting the 16 week vacc done as well.     If you're going between houses, you would probably be wise to have different shoes, or have a disinfectant tray to disinfect your shoes before you walk around your parents' house.

Maybe ask your vet about titre testing the pup at an appropriate time after vac to check whether he has built up immunity.  It's quite variable.

It sure is a mind game @sheena .  They say we get the dogs we need … not sure what I did to need my little BSC (Bat Shit Crazy) - but she's certainly making me improve my skills as a trainer.  My dear Kirra who was naughty enough even as an old dog had got me fairly well trained, and she was like a comfortable pair of slippers ..maybe the odd hole here and there ,,,, but comfy.  I swear she organised Pippa for me .. I can hear her saying .. call yourself a dog trainer .. try this one for size!     My Rory at almost 11 and a half, is just about perfect now, but that took a while with him too.

@sheena  they sound like good ideas …. from my experience it will take a while for the penny to drop.   I had situations with Pippa where we should nick off up the hill towards the back of the place if she didn't think it was time to come in when I thought it was.  I could usually get her back down by playing frisbee or some jumping with Rory,   and then if it was frisbee, I'd play with her too .. soft nylon cloth frisbee I can tug with, and then tug and race with her inside.   Then I could just gauge when she was about ready to come in, and cue race ya and with a treat or toy, race her inside, then do a treat scatter inside.    It's just the last couple of weeks that she is now deciding for herself to head inside when we've had enough play or training.   She will sometimes head up the back, but I can usually get her back or get her to come to a hand touch then have her hold Reinforcement Zone all the way in for a scatter.  

I was thinking that to prevent him doing the lie on the ground thing, maybe a nice long tuggy that you can tug him back and forth with (still on lead) and then play some more tug in the yard, and then maybe a treat scatter.

Sounds like you're definitely on the way to having a successful plan.

@sheena   a few thoughts occurred to me.   Have you trained the collar grab game with him?  If not, it's definitely one I'd be doing .. easy to train up at home in quiet times with minimal distractions, and then build up.   Once the collar grab becomes sort of second nature, it becomes a useful reminder, particularly with a quiet verbal . that you are actually driving the bus .. not him.   I would also be looking at things like … where is he and what is he doing when you're busy with other people.  Mine are in the car at dog club when I'm instructing.   They both have huge value for the crates in the car, and always get treats for getting in.  So I'd be doing a fair bit of get him out of the car (with a release word) do a bit of work of some kind, and then hop it up in the car, reward .. do something else … then rinse and repeat … so he's in and out of the car several times over the time.

So the value is both in the car and out of the car .. 

I get the verbal tantrums from the crazy one when I'm running Rory, or when one of her favourite fast dogs is running .. and she will bark at me in frustration if she's getting things wrong  (cos it's my fault .. which of course it usually is). but if she doesn't settle fairly quickly she loses the chance to work .. back in the crate or car or house, depending on where we are.

It'll take a while if he's been rehearsing this sort of thing for a while (and to be fair, he would have had a rather turbulent time when you had all those fires and then floods), but ask the questions .. who's driving the bus, where's the value, and what do I want to see instead .. then limit the opportunities for him to practise what you don't want to see, and plan to practise and do a lot of rewarding for what you do want, and make sure he understands the response cost of doing what you don't want to see.

And I'm still working on my little cray cray girl .. who will be 3 next week ..but it is improving. 

Didn't know whether to like that post or not, @sandgrubber … but it's definitely good that Patty is eating and poos are firming up.    Continuing best wishes to you and Patty.

17 hours ago, MiraBounty said:

I probably need to change vets. Is it normal that he told me to vaccinate the little one each month for the first 6 months and then once per year? It seems like a bit too much and he really hates going there too.

Hi and welcome.   It says you're overseas, so I guess the answer will depend on where you live.  In Australia, vaccination schedules for puppies vary according to the particular vaccine used (and to some extent where the pup lives  … e.g. high parvovirus risk area or low risk.)  The post by @Dogsfevr higher up on this thread shows how the different vaccine brands may be given at different schedules.

I think here, the general consensus is to vaccinate enough to try to ensure adequate base protection, and from then on (14 months) only enough to provide appropriate cover.  More vets are now open to client requests to do titre testing to determine the level of protection against the core diseases.

I would be asking around other pup owners (including your pup's breeder) and seeing what other vets recommend and why.

I would also be working with your pup and your vet office on ways to help your pup enjoy vet visits more.   (I do regular visits .. with lots of teats … to the vet waiting room when it's empty or almost empty, to do things like weighing the dogs.    They nearly always get greetings and treats from receptions and any vet nurses who are passing through .. then they can leave really happy.   

Cassie sounds like a sweetie .. lots of fun ahead.   Don't know about Kelpies, but the face thing is pretty strong in Border Collies … prime example being my Miss BSC (Batshit Crazy).  Many BCs do like to get near faces, and lick them.   They can be quite tricky .. they'll sit there for a greeting, all innocent and sweet, and then they can't help themselves .. they launch the Birmingham Kiss. .. headbutting as they attempt to get a face lick in .

There is a Canine Disc Association of Australia   .. seems to be mostly a Queensland thing, but I think they are trying to get it going in other areas .. there are a couple of people coming down to Tassie this weekend I think. Might be worth contacting them .. they'd know what's available in Victoria.

Treibball is another possibility .. not sure if there are clubs doing it, but I could probably find out.

Good for you for asking for the help.   Fingers and paws crossed you can get some useful answers.

6 hours ago, Smith3 said:

Very happy to say yesterday we received our pedigree papers, vet card and change of ownership form. 

We have had his microchip scanned so i'll now get his rego sorted.

 

Thank you for the replies.

 

 

 

Oh yay!    That is good news!!              Now you can sit back and really enjoy your new pup!

18 hours ago, leopuppy04 said:

With regards to putting it on - how about make a Y with the bridle, pull the nose noose up and thread your hand through (so your hand is between he nose noose and the neck piece.  Give the dog a treat as you slip over your dogs head (and therefore on the muzzle).  It works really nicely for myself and my clients

 

As for the product, I really like it, but I do find the initial period of learning how to put it on confusing for most.  It is harder to condition the dog to accept it in comparison to a gentle leader but I think it is kinder on the back of the neck as opposed to under the chin.  I don't think it will harm the dog unless you are jerking the dog around on it, which is not what I personally use a head halter for :).  

 

 

Thanks, @leopuppy04 .  I'll dig it out of my trial bag … it goes with me because I keep thinking I'll have time to play with it..... never do … but I'll give that suggestion a go .. that's the bit where I get stuck, I think.

I got one on recommendation from friends whose opinion I valued.  I liked that there was a piece under the chin connecting to the collar, so I would think less likelihood of neck injury .. and less anyway if used appropriately as a training aid.   My problem was I don't know that I got the right size.  It's on my "to do" list to get in touch with the suppliers and try to work out whether it's just me being thick.

FWIW I used it on several trips to the mainland.  Had no problems with it on 3 different Border Collies.  On vet advice from up in Queensland, I actually used it together with Proban when you could still get that.  (We were visiting tick central)   It was a little bit sticky on the coat, and my only real hassle with it was the toxicity to cats, so I couldn't put it on till I'd left home.  The last trip north, 3 years ago, I decided to use Nexgard ,, again n o issues, although you can find horror stories about that too.

I didn't notice any effect on mosquitoes.

I would hope that your instructors would help you with a list of the cures they would want you to use ….. eventually.  The SG programs are carefully built up in layers, and the dog and handler team learn the individual moves and cues one by one, so that there is less 'overwhelm'.      The important thing about cues and handling is to work out the safest and clearest path for the dog, and how you can 'steer' the dog round,   Clear information to the dog ahead of an obstacle means that the dog is able to prepare and execute the obstacle safely .. and in some cases, know where it will be going next, saving ugly changes  at the last minute.

If this link works, you will see verbal cues as well as physical cues being used to steer a Ferrari-type Border Collie.  By the way :jump" doesn't just mean, take the jump .. it means "take the jump and you will be doing the obstacle you're heading straight for after that".  The dog knows that it's a jump, but is being information about how to take the jump .. whether to get ready for a turn before taking off ...etc.

19 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

...

Yes, the specialist has an echocardiograph. I hope he will have a clearer idea of what's wrong. I don't think the first vet even did a careful listen to her heart or looked for enlargement on the ultrasound. Maybe my expectations are too high.  (My father was a cardiologist who worked as a GP).

 

That family background is good .. so you'll probably "speak the language" and know the sorts of things to ask.   

Yep .. in house ultrasounds are usually limited ..at both my vets ('normal' and holistic) they will get the specialist vet ultrasonographer down if they need more detail than they can get in house .. problem is he's 200km away .. but worth the 3 hour wait usually.  Fingers still crossed for you and Patty.

It's so hard when there are so many possibilities to investigate.   But the vet cardiologist consult would probably be useful . if only to narrow the possibilities down.   I'm assuming that specialist will be able to do an echocardiograph on site.  I guess also, will have had a wider range of practical experience in tricky diagnostic problems.  Fingers crossed.