alpha bet

So your idea of "qualified" means they have paid out money to one of the 'groups' that offer puppy training courses. Most of these are more money making exercises for the organisers. Watched one group that run one of these courses and for nearly $2000 participants end up with their certificate including the OHS certificate. The course is bull"#@t and most of these people wouldn't have a hope in hell handling a variety of pups let alone deal with the human variety. I have seen some vet nurses with no official status run great courses. The best qualification is to let the community speak - the people who build their course and do a good job end up staying in business. Puppy Classes are important for the future of dogs in the public. As far as length of course - this again needs to be structured around what the public need, want and can afford.... not what any associations likes to pass judgement about - The dog world is too quick to decide what is for the good of the dog and forgetting that we have to cater to the public. If we arent careful we could make owning a dog so expensive and difficult that there will be less and less families having the chance to experience a dog - It is the future generations that will make the rules about where dogs fit in with our lives, lets hope there are plenty of dog lovers left to push the cause. (sorry will get off my soap box now)

Firstly, "What do you mean by 'qualified trainer' ? We don't think of puppy classes as having an 'optimum' timeframe as this doesnt work with most families. We run a private introduction lesson first and then offer ongoing classes and recommend training for a 12 month period - using a pay as you go system - with families doing blocks of training as it fits in with their own lifestyle as well as looking at the different stages of the young dogs life. Generally we have families come with their 2 month old pups for about 8 weeks and then they might have a month or two off and then often they appear back about 6 months old and will be fairly consistant for another 6 weeks and then another break, back again usually around 10 months - The ones who do reappear at 10 months often then happy to train most weeks till their dogs are 14-16 months old. The trouble with many of the Vets or Trainers running say 6 week puppy socialising classes is that often the families think they have done the work, whereas in fact they haven't even started. The other big problem seems to be the prices they charge sometimes $150-250 for a course seems expensive and once they get into the course it doesn't meet the families expectations and often they don't continue the course and then don't see the point in paying out more money for a further course. Generally when I've spoken with people running puppy courses (both here and in the USA) they find that most families don't keep coming for the life of the course so therefore have shortened the courses to say 4 weeks. When asked why they think the families don't keep up the course they seem to believe that families aren't prepared or are too busy for any longer. Not one person we met thought that perhaps they needed to restructure their classes to make things more interesting....... Surprised me as I thought perhaps in the states they would be more progressive especially when many are running a 4 week course and charging in the region of $400. We are constantly revamping our classes and we provide classes that cover a bigger range of age. This has been successful as we have a good retention rate. We run 5 classes a week for various ages and our numbers can fluctuate throughout the year we can have 6-14 dogs in a class. We are in a semi rural area based near a country town so have a smaller population yet still have to compete with 2 other private trainers and 3 veterinary groups. If we were in a metropolitian area with a bigger population we feel we could have more classes. Conclusion: from our experience we believe it is better to market a package for families for an ongoing training system. Oh this is from experience of building the business for over 16 years.

Great feedback, thanks for your information. I have been talking with some breeders in Poland and Germany - heading over later in the year and plan to visit to have a first hand look. Am also hoping to get to a aussie speciality show in Belgium which might give me a good chance to see a wide range of dogs/breeders. Consider it is worth investigating more before I go so that I know what I might be letting myself in for. So likely costs of $6-8,000 expected..... for an adult. Lots to outlay on the offchance. Otherwise might consider importing semen but then wonder if this is as good an option. Must say I am more nervous/concerned about the length of time the dog will be locked up on the plane - do they get watered, fed at all ? The quarantine time here seems okay, after all not too far away to visit at Spotswood and have hear great things. Another question, what is the difference between the country Catergories.

Am toying with the idea of importing a dog from Europe. Just wondering if anyone has some experience or recommendations that they could share. What companies did you use? approx costing? any problems? Thanks in anticipation

There is no rule in victoria that says a dog must be restrained. It is just that you are not to have a dog on the lap of a driver. Quote from Vic Roads Laws "Driving or riding with animals You must not drive if there is an animal on your lap. If you are a driver or passenger in a motor vehicle or riding a bicycle you must not lead an animal, including by tethering the animal to the motor vehicle or bicycle." The police cannot charge you - it is just one of those things that sometimes officers can misinterpret.

Pineapple in his diet will generally put him off eating the poo.

Received a reply from the DPI (Victoria) regarding the microchip query I asked. Re not being able to advertise pups for sale without a microchip number which means at 8 weeks. DPI have stated that it would be acceptable under the proposed legislation from ANKC breeders to advertise any forthcoming litter but not the individual pups until they are microchipped. Seems a bit of an odd way of wording this....

We run puppy classes, have been for 16 years, but we do things quite differently than at most of the vets. We have a private lesson first where we can talk one on one about any problems like toilet training etc plus we talk about techniques of living with dogs also how the classes operate and etiquette. We also then introduce their pup with my dogs/pups so we can have a chance to allow the pup to blend into social work. Classes then are ongoing for as long as they feel the need and if they want they can move into an older class when they are ready. We have dogs with different ages and size, sometimes shy older dogs find adult classes too much but can relax in a softer environment. We aim to show people how to enjoy working their pup but also how to reduce pups excitement energy when meeting new dogs. It is really important to allow new families plenty of time to ask questions as well as show them how they can even teach pups some tricks, this encourages them to keep working. We have 12 week old pups who can sit, drop, go to the mark, run thru a tunnel, walk on a see-saw. It is soo much fun I love teaching families.

The RSPCA are not the ones writing the legislation - they might like the idea of requiring all dog breeders to register but there are many factors that have to be taken into consideration that are way beyond the capacity or understanding of RSPCA . The DPI is the one who will be writing the proposed legislation which will end up with the Minister for 'approval or refinement'. Their paper is the one you should be looking and commenting on and it is certainly not titled "to end puppy farms". The current one is Victorian but other states have similar. The DPI Victoria is putting forth a paper "Code of Practice" for the operation of Breeding and Rearing Establishments.

Lhok, I was at the meeting and it was made pretty clear that under the proposed legislation you would be able to have entire dogs. Up to two entire females (no comment on entire males) doesn't require any registration nor even being a member of a recognised dog association. If you have 9 or less entire females you dont need registration provided you are a member of the ANKC member clubs. If you have 10 or more entire females you need to apply for a specific licence. This would mean the majority of ANKC breeders will not need to alter their breeding operations as there is no requirement to have dogs in concrete runs or pups raised in whelping rooms and pens. One major issue tho is that to advertise a forthcoming litter of pups you have to have have the microchip number on the advert you cannot use your Vic Dog Member Number, however for the commercial breeders they can advertise using their Breeder Registration Number. As pups arent microchipped till 6-8 weeks this means that most of the ANKC breeders could not advertise even here on Dogzonline.

Its more complicated when you have a breed with the NBT - Its rare to see an Australian Shepherd win in the ring if it has a tail - Unfortunately it still seems the preference, yet even a natural bob tail aussie could be born with a bob, quarter, half, three quarter tail - but still usually only see the 'full bob' in the ring..... in fact the aussie shepherd club website shows the standard as: Quote : TAIL Is straight, docked or naturally bobbed, not to exceed four inches in length. End Quote This would seem to go against the regulations about not docking...... as in effect they are saying a dog with more than 4 inches is incorrect.

Not in an area that you were asking - but thought I would throw it out there and see if there is interest from dog owners. We have a 3 bed cottage overlooking Lake Eildon at Bonnie Doon - We have been thinking of perhaps renting it out at times, just more as a word of mouth thing. 2 rooms with queen beds and 1 room with two singles. There is a 4 acre paddock at the back (farm fencing) co-owned with the other houses in the street and about 250 metres walk to the waters edge (no water when we brought it in the drought). Walking distance to the pub and still a safe staggering distance home. Cottage is old fashioned (60's original condition orange shag pile and mission brown tiles) but clean and tidy, reverse aircon, bathroom old but very serviceable and good toilet. We are planning a few renovations perhaps vinyl floor throughout to keep it dog friendly and upgrade kitchen and bathroom down the line to make it more practical. We wanted somewhere we could take the dogs, oh and the kids, and they had somewhere to run around and play in the water. Currently only have a farm fence with chicken wire but planning to build a holding pen for the dogs when we want to go out. Its a really quiet area for people to go and chill out, great cafe and restaurants in Mansfield 20 min drive - if your into fishing, water skiing etc and in winter there is plenty of walking and only just over an hour to Bulla Ski Resort. My dogs love it

The Bureau of Animal Welfare is conducting a public forum with regarding to the issue of dog and cat breeding and rearing establishments. Dogs Victoria did send out invites as did the Department of Primary Industries. This is an opportunity to have a say in the issues of puppy farms and perhaps to see if these new recommendations will place restrictions on pure breeders April 12, 2012 - 10am till 12.30pm Lecture Theatre, DPI, 621 Burwood Highway, Knoxfield Cost is free and seating limited to 120. RSVP by 5th April to: [email protected]

There have been various threads on this : Many breeders put in a huge amount of effort to give puppies variety of socialising.... but there are many breeders who work full time, travel to shows on weekends, have family commitments who run and breed two or three different breeds and may have 8, 10, perhaps 16 dogs. Perhaps even 5 or 6 litters a year..... sheese these people would never have the time. I looove raising puppies but then I work full time with dogs so I am lucky, I am home and have set up an environment- it takes two months of commitment to raise pups and for me perhaps 2 litters or perhaps 3 litters in a year would be the most that I feel I could provide the right life. I dont have time to show as my life is spent around breeding, running a training school and boarding kennels. Pups get socialised with other dogs, loads of people, out to friends, brought into my own puppy classes from 4 weeks of age. They are born in the family room and watch tv with us at night, by the time they are 6 weeks old they get up and walk over to the newspaper (90% of the time) and have a wee, we feed and take them for a walk and they learn to poo in the garden, by the time they leave us they are basically toilet trained at least to our system. I explain this to the puppy buyers and generally they tell me they have pretty good success back home. They also need to have some changes of environment even at the breeders, sometimes in the front garden, sometimes on the back verandah, going for walks up to the shed, down to the pond. If you leave them in the same puppy run for their time they don't have the same chance to build on their skills. You don't make money breeding but hopefully you can cover the costs - but you learn so much watching the pups grow and develop.... after raising 14 litters I am still learning...... Everyone has to start somewhere so take the plunge if you have the interest.... try different things don't be afraid to try something if it feels right.... don't be put off by negative comments from people , even your vet (do they breed???) .... instead seek breeders who have bred dogs with the characters you admire..... currently typing this with 9 pups of 5.5 weeks asleep on the mats.

Hate to tell you but there are very very very few people who actually make a decent living working with dogs. Ask around with trainers/behaviours etc you know and ask them.... First consider a groomer - employed by a salon - working often on part time hours at basic wages. If you own the salon you might make money but you have incredibly high overheads and all the risk of running a business. Next consider a mobile groomer - costs to purchase a franchise between $20,000 and $40,000 - a full days work driving from one dog to another means perhaps 6-8 dogs per day @ most $55 for clips but more likely $25-30 for washes, So perhaps a really good day could be $300 over 5 days (of which you will find you end up working most weekends) sounds good at $1,500 per week - but take away franchise fees, advertising, insurances, running your vehicle and turning up and clients have forgotton you where coming. Also no sick days, holiday pay or super. If it doesnt work out and you want to sell unless your lucky to find another sucker you hand your franchise back and get nothing. Rescue Centre - mostly volunteers with a few paid staff, but even then money is always tight with any rescue group and wages do not get priorities. Assistance Dog Trainer - no money available and therefore generally done on volunteer basis. Dog Trainer - you need experience which means you need to work at a club or with a trainer probably as a volunteer (no money for years) until you have the expertise and ability then you need to fork out money advertising, insurances, a professional website, further development for courses etc for about 5 years to start to build a reputation within a community where you might then start to cover costs and perhaps make a little extra. Behaviourist - spend 3 years or so gaining a degree and then perhaps further studies and then hope that someone wants to employ you because you have this bit of paper..... otherwise you go thru all the same things as setting up as a dog trainer. Health professionals - acupunture, massage, bowens etc.... same problems as setting up as a dog trainer and behaviourist. Boarding Kennel attendant - basic wage, very little imput, picking up shit, washing down floors, washing dogs under a fairly strict time frame. Not much time allowed to enjoy playing with dogs. Boarding Kennel owner - own a property where you can get a permit and then spend $300,000 to build, then all the problems with running a business. Customs, Police - All take time, but customs do take in handlers from time to time - and the advantage is wages, sick leave, super etc. Pet Supplies Industry - Either as a shop attendant or in sales or administration - again wages, sick leave etc... Perhaps you could consider making dog products to sell online, Blackdog started out as a bit of a sideline. I dont want to sound negative but my advise is try all the things you enjoy but consider doing this in your spare time and build your experience while you bring in a wage to live in the boring normal world. Often when enrolling for courses it can be made to sound as tho there are jobs out there, but look everywhere, where are these jobs advertised..... not in the paper, not at centrelink.... anything that might become available is often through word of mouth. Perhaps in time other options might become more viable.

Question it would be good to ask your brother. Has your brothers dog been xrayed and assessed correctly ? - his vet might not be a specialist in this field and it is something that can be misdiagnosed You say that it was registered dog - did he actually get papers or just that "the parents are registered" ? Were both parents breed surveyed....? Where both parents xrayed and did your brother see/receive a copy of the papers and the scores? I have had quite a few shepherds over the years as well as bred litters and always from breed surveyed stock - have never had any problems with hips or elbows and had my own stock xrayed to confirm - It is very likely that a breeder might say that he doesn't have HD in his lines as perhaps there have been many dogs bred thru these lines without problems. But the only way the breeder would know this is having a history of the HD scheme which would be available thru the breed survey system. However in the breeders defence it does seem that your information from what he has said has come third hand, as it was the vet who spoke to the breeder and then the vet to your brother and then your brother to you..... then you on here.... each conversation can be 'modified' which means the breeder could easily be seen as the bad guy. I have many books of the breed surveys conducted throughout the late '70's thru to early '90's which was great when it came to researching potential sires. I believe that there has been a major record book published to continue providing this information. From my 15 years involved thru the GSDCV, HD is no where near as common as many vets seemed to think. However I will admit that I only really dealth with GSD who where from breed surveyed stock.

In the past we have often had situations where the dog world had referred to a syndrome/disease called 'cocker rage' this was used to describe situations where there was a sudden change of behaviour (usually some type of fitting and sometimes showing aggressive behaviour) for no apparent reason. Then everything would settle as if nothing had happened. Generally it was thought to be in English Cocker and English Springer as well as some others. There has been research conducted into this and at one point a huge survey was done thru the English Kennel Club to find out more. However there hasn't really been any conclusive proof that 'cocker rage' does exist as a disease but perhaps more as a behavioural issue. So don't jump to any conclusions.... it may be worth conducting further research.

Born under the dining room table - basically they live in the box with mum coming and going - she is the one who tells the other dogs when it is okay for them to come and meet the pups. We pick them up and cuddle them into our necks from the moment they are born... this is done often thru the day with friends and family getting to enjoy them as well. Even newborn pups have the ability to smell and feel - much like with imprinting of a horse, the more they are handled by humans the better their connection. By three weeks they are crawling out of the box and we might carry them out to the grass under a tree on a good day. Now they have lots of interaction with our own dogs and with a few friends trusted dogs. This is when we start hard feeding. By three and a half weeks we take 2 or 3 pups at a time out to visit at friend house, this gives them a chance to have many new smells sounds and even some new dogs. This happens a few times a week. At four and a half weeks I take them into our puppy group - we run two groups a week so generally can get my own bred pups into 2-3 classes before they go home to their family at nearly 9 weeks. Whilst writing this I have 9 x 5 week old puppies lying around the lounge room floor with 4 dogs and 3 cats. All have been sold now and we encourage visits, usally we have a couple of sundays (when pups are 4 weeks and 6 weeks) when we have most of the families come and visit. Most bring friends with them so sometimes have 20-25 people up on these days. I have been really lucky to have probably two pups a litter sold in general area so they have continued in our training school first in pups and then in adults. It is great to see my own breeding growing and developing. We have raised 8 litters in this house using these principals. Each litter I gain more confidence in this socialising work. Pups are born with Maternal Antibodies from their mum - this keeps them healthy, as long as they are feeding of mum even just a little drink a couple of times a day will keep the MAB's high enough. At 8 weeks we have seperated mum and pups are then vaccinated and microchipped.

As I have stated earlier, brave is the vet who is prepared to stand by their role and make the hard decisions. Will it help - many here think not - I think it will as there are breeders and exhibitors out there hoping that someone will finally take a stand. Perhaps we can take another step forward - We have our registration certificates from the Kennel Associations - they state whether the dogs are Ch or Gr Ch or whether they are Imported or have agility titles.... All very nice.... but what I really want to see on these certificates is: Hip and Elbow Scores, DNA test results.... surely for breeders these health results are more important than whether a dog has a show title? If the Dog world wants to get serious about improving the health, these are things that breeders should be proud to have on their puppies registration. I send in the Hip/Elbow certificate in as required..... it is then sent back.... but no alterations to certificates. The only way I can find out the health testing of any stud dog is if the owner chooses to disclose this..... Surely we should be more open and prepared to share these results for the good of our breeds.

Exactly, because YOU believe it would be difficult. That's completely different to somebody else saying, "you should only have one breed because that is all you can do justice to"...... I get very tired of people who insist that they know best what another individual can cope with. I understand where 'oakway' is coming from and I have to agree it is not necessarily that a dedicated person could not do justice to the research of more than one or two breeds - many judges do this, but very few judges would be breeding more than 1 or 2 breeds at any one time. The main issue is the time involved to run and maintain more than two breeds - this would be beyond the ability of most individuals. Also it would mean running a much greater number of dogs therefore less time to spend with the individual dogs and in particular less time spent with the puppies. Most breeding programs might be running perhaps 3-6 breeding dogs of different ages if you had three breeds then you are looking at perhaps 10 to 20 breeding dogs as well as the likelihood of back to back litters throughout the year. Hence you either have loads of money to employ someone to help or you are a full time breeder - Isn't this perhaps the definition of a puppy farmer or the byb for profit. If you had perhaps individual bitchs from 3 or 4 breeds and therefore only breeding each one once a year or every 2nd year then you are not really developing a breeding program but more just for fun - this is not a bad thing - but could they be considered a breeder who may enhance the breed in the long run? - as Alyosha previously stated "someone who is passionate about their breed and working as guardians"

There has been a great deal of cruel behaviour in the name of fashion - and not just restricted to the dog world. Carriage horses where thought more fashionable to have a high head carriage so they had their heads pulled back even tho this creates difficulty pulling the cart uphill. fashionable to have tiny waists ...... english girls subjected to pain and discomfort and squeezed into tiny corsets fashionable to have small feet........ chinese bound the feet of young girls Through history trends have changed but sometimes the establishment has to be dragging kicking and screaming into making change..... as Breeders / Exhibitors we must accept that there are many breeds that need to adjust direction and as in the video interviews from Crufts - one of the breeders of the bulldogs mentioned that there were many 'ethical breeders' who welcome the new attention to the health issues. Judges perhaps are one group who need to be dragging kicking and screaming into the future

There are a few products, one is a heavy paint effect that can go onto garage floors, but this needs to go on new concrete that has been left for 2-3 weeks to draw the chemicals out of the concrete before painting. Is quite expensive and I havent yet tried this because doesnt recommend for older concrete. Another product is like a spray on rubber, similar to what is on kids playgrounds, it is extremely expensive, but the manufacturers have advised that they are unsure how the dog's claws and urine would work.... This is a product I have seen on some of the playgrounds in the doggy day care as well as some of the upmarket horse stables. I did try some washable rubber (like for stables) on one pen, cost a bit, and then had one dog who dug at it and started to shred - gave this up as not worth the expense. I have found the best alternative is a concrete paint from any of the paint stores - Clean the pen floor and repair any holes or cracks and then apply paint with a roller on a pole, quick and easy and definately the cheaper option. The best thing to repair any holes is from Bunnings (and probably other hardwares) is a repair kit for concrete water tanks, this can go on any concrete and seals even when the area is wet - really gives a good bond. Initially I put down 3 coats of paint and then every two years I apply two coats as a top up - each time i re-coat it seems to come up better - obviously building up more But I run a boarding kennel so we probably have harder wear and tear. This keeps a reasonable surface and we use a blower to clean out the kennels and then just a pressure wash when needed - not tooo intense or it wears the paint off.

One thing to remember is there is no restrictions as to what breeds come under the prefix. So dont just search by breeds

The sad thing is that Govt groups don't even need to put a registration fee in place - there is already a system that could easily be expanded. In theory, anyone operating a puppy farm would need to have a license thru their council. This could be where an annual fee could be charged to anyone operating breeding situations on a commercial scale - in these cases the council and rspca already have authority to inspect the premises under the conditions of the planning permit - then issued with a Breed License Number Breeders who are hobby breeders with less than (i think its usually 5 breeding dogs) should not need to come under this scheme especially if they already belong to the recognised state Breed Association - their membership number can be used as a Breed License Number. The most simple solution would be to provide a Bill thru Government that states that no dogs can be sold without a microchip from the point of production. This would mean that Petshops cannot bring puppies in without records of where they come and who they have been sold to - using microchip numbers Hence then stats could be developed to indicate for rescue/pounds where and how many pups are come from byb, puppy farms or even registered breeders. Rescue groups could trace back to the initial source..... how cool would that be.... The main thing then is to educate the public that it is law that a pup must be microchipped and with first vaccination when sold. Even a family having one accidental litter either has to surrender to welfare or pay for a vet to microchip so they can sell the pups. Vets already check for microchips and fill out transfer of ownership for new puppy owners - if they find pups without microchip then the new owners would usually be happy to say where they purchased the pup and this can be written up with the new microchip - Computer programs are quite capable of recording the string of owners back to point of origin and this would allow red flags to show if there is many repeats of the same address appearing as origin. Especially when no Breed License Number is given. Might seem a bit complicated but this system has already been tested - Used with cattle, sheep etc - Markets, Wholesalers, Butchers have to identify where they source their product. One good thing is that puppy farms and pet shops would have to spend extra money as well as keep accurate records (that can be inspected) whereas Registered Breeders are already required to keep this info - so more work and more expense for puppy farms and pet shops but not for the registered breeders.

Imagine all the breeders who have been working towards improving these exaggerated breed issues. They are probably down the pub raising their glasses to toast the vet who has the balls to stand up - finally to show up some of the judges that for years have allowed these problems to continue..... The video of the bulldog is perhaps a prime example as that breeder said '6 years old she is the product of ethical breeding' - longer nose and length than normally seen etc. Now these breeders can feel a sense of hope for the future direction of their breeds.