Kirislin

Tooradin's up for sale. http://www.realestate.com.au/property-residential+land-vic-tooradin-201183859

I think boys, even neutered smell stronger.

And brindle and white Pugs, and a few other new colours cropping up in other breeds. Spontaneous genetic mutations? My armpit they are. are the new colours popping up registered as pedigrees?

aaah to have a time machine and travel forwards 50 or 100 years to see how some breeds are going.

Yep and look at how much breeds have changed over the years. Back onto whippets for me. They were supposed to be small enough to hide under a poachers coat, and silent when they hunted so as not to draw attention to themselves or their owners. I wonder how many whippets could be hidden under a coat now. One of the things that strikes me about the old Whippet photos was the degree of variation in the heights of dogs. Given that you had dogs with Greyhound, IG and terrier ancestry, that doesn't suprise me. Perhaps this was part of the reason they decided to put minimum and maximum heights in the breeds standard. On the issue of show dogs, conformation extremes and fitness for function, I am in furious agreement with you. However I do not regard that as a reason to outcross or change the breed standard which calls for moderation. very true. I've often thought to myself that the lines were very blurred regarding whippets and IG's 100 or more years ago. I see photos and think it could have been either one. Even Mary Lowes book The English Whippet has Missy and Turlu?, something like that, anyway, alot of people insist they're IGs and certainly when the painting was done I dont think whippets were a recognised breed.

Yep and look at how much breeds have changed over the years. Back onto whippets for me. They were supposed to be small enough to hide under a poachers coat, and silent when they hunted so as not to draw attention to themselves or their owners. I wonder how many whippets could be hidden under a coat now.

I've seen raciing greyhounds with jaws so overshot they'd never catch and hold prey. Is this what we should aspire to? Greyhounds were not developed to run on oval tracks - so that sport takes them in a different direction from their original function too. I've seen show dogs that I very much doubt could perform their original function too.

good reason for standards not to be held up as unchangeable and infallible. They are not always written with all the best knowledge available, and often by people with vested interests. In most cases I think much of what created a breed standard is politics. Rarely were they created by geneticists or even people with a knowledge in animal movement or health. Before Kc's function defined a breed and I think thats what we should go back to. I love to see conformation become the side show with sport the main event. Lurcher and long dog shows as well as working terrier shows in the UK are working events with the beauty contest the side show for the day and a bit fun the serios part is testing the skill and function of the dogs. It wont happen, well, not in our lifetime anyway but if it did, I'll bet they'd still be beautifully conformed dogs because they'd have to be to hold up to what ever the physical demands of the sport were.

Fortunately, it doesn't have to be here. :) What the Americans do with their breed standards is a matter for them IMO. I am interested in owning and breeding dogs as the country of origin intended them. For Whippets that's the UK and that is the standard followed here. There's alot of US bloodlines in our whippets now, and even in the UK whippets so what they do affects ours too.

Yes, I know, but they've managed to get some. I've even seen dark eyed dilutes here too. My own girl Penny had lovely brown eyes and she was a dilute. she's gone to God now. Gorgeous Penny: dark eyed dilute (with US bloodlines in her pedigree so maybe that's why) IMG_1990cs by kirislin, on Flickr Penny at 12 by kirislin, on Flickr

Generally the Americans dont' show dilutes at all. Their breed standard speciifies a dark eye and that's impossible in a dilute. Our breed standard follows the English one and eye colour has no impact on hunting ability. That, a strong preference for parti-colours (a recessive gene) and a higher height allowance in the US breed standard probably account for the genetic drift identified in American Whippets. No that's not correct. I've seen US dilute dogs with quite dark eyes. They certainly do show dilutes too. Byerley Savile Row a blue brindle was exported for a couple of years and used alot over there, they loved him. and lots complained about their requirement for a dark eye.

I'm saying that a breed standard matters. Individual disagreement with it isn't a good enough reason for me to breed outside it. If you don't like a standard, a process exists to change it. However before you change it, it pays to understand the "why" of colour specification or disqualification. Some are purely an aesthetic preference. Dark eye dilute whippets in the US. I wonder how many perfectly healthy, beautifully conformed lighter eyed whippets have been lost because of that. The amount of white on IGs. Europe only allows minimal white. It has nothing to do with the health of the breed. My own preference is also for minimal white too, but I dont agree with it being a requirement of the standard. There are lots of colours that occur naturally in some breeds, without them being crossed with something else, they were there all along but because they weren't written in the standard from the beginning they aren't allowed now.

I found myself nodding my head at this statement.

I think whippets are getting more and more problems. I have a friend who woke up to find her puppy dead on her bed, heart problems. It was from a well known breeder. Retained testicles, heart problems, epilepsy, auto immune diseases, CDA and probably lots more I've never heard of.

Can breeders here foresee a time when outcrossing might happen with their breed?

I'm loving this thread, it's so interesting!

Vive la difference! I have no issue with what working Whippet people wish to do or breed. They can thank their lucky stars if they've chosen not to outcross to BCs for "vigour and traits" like some have - a whole new little selection of health issues unknown in those irrelevant pedigree dogs. So much for "hybrid vigour"., My head will remain firmly in KC land because that is what I choose to breed and own. I'm interested in soundness, type and pedigree. Why pedigree? Because ancestry is the best indicator of the tr i"m traits I'm looking for. Perhaps you should famiiarise yourself a little with the rules of this forum and tone down the patronising posts. You clearly hold your views strongly. That's fine but its not carte blanche to rubbish those of others. I'm not rubbishing ANYONE, I'm just pointing out that most breeds came from working foundations, and diverged from there when showing came along. Hybrid vigour is a "real" biological phenomia and back up by science. I'm just asking people to think outside the box. I'm happy to have my views changed if you can back it up with well researched scientific fact. I love purebreds and I'm looking forward to Dogs VIC and the ANKC bringing in its Appendix register as it will be great to start some outcrossing to help fix the health probelms in the breeds I love. is this for real? When will it happen and what will be involved? How would dogs be selected?

alot of whippet colours have been lost or are very rare here. Even since I've known the breed, a mere 30 years there are colours I never see in pedigrees anymore although I do see them in the non peds occasionally. I've mostly lost interest in pedigree whippets now as they're getting so big and their shape has changed so they no longer resemble the curvy compact little dogs I fell in love with. If I bred the kind that appealed to me and tried to show them I'd be laughed out of the ring.

I often see photos of rescue dogs scrabbling around disaster sites and wonder about injuries to their feet from broken glass or metal, or even toxic substances. I never see them with protective shoes on.

found an interesting page on one of the links posted by Outofsighthound. It links to facebook Breeding for the Future pages for many breeds. www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/bff-breed-groups.html you might need to cut n paste that link.

wow, numbers are really going down aren't they?

I went in to my local council office yesterday to ask about the ban on breeding and was told if I wanted to breed I'd have to pay $274 (or something around that mark) to register myself as a business. When I tried to explain that the 2 previous litters I bred put me at a loss, and I wouldn't be doing it to make money, and that I'd been a member of Dogs Vic for many years as a registered breeder he just shrugged and suggested I follow it up by writing to my local councillor. I told him that they make it hard to do the right thing.

Poor Sid, get well soon buddy. You could do a funny photoshop job and have a beam of light shining out from his lamp shade too, looking up at the other lamp shade like ships in the night :laugh:

If we breed with closed registers wont all breeds eventually be at risk of dying out due to an ever diminishing gene pool?

a friend of mine has an IG that was well over 2 before she had her first season. My own whippet Feather (not a toy, I know) was over 2 years old before she had her first season while her litter sister was only 13 months when she first came in. Hopefully your little one is healthy, just a late developer. Did they have seasons regularly after the 1st one & did you breed from them ? Feather's seasons were regular once she started, I never bred from her though. As to the IG, I'm not sure if she's had another season, her first was just around Christmas last year so she might be due around now depending on her cycle.