Red Fox

Hmmm... my Ridgeback must have skipped some pages when reading the breed book.. ;) Nope, the backyard is not the place to sit at all. It is used exclusively for rolling stupidly around on your back in the dirt, sunbaking and toileting. The couch is a much more preferable place to spend your time. Yes. In 3 minute intervals in between more important thing like sunbaking, eating and couch time. Yes, chase the cat, get bopped over the head and then slink back to the couch again. ^^Okay, he read this bit :D

Yes, and anything that happens to the puppy in this period good or bad can have life long effects. Of course. Everybody thinks their way is the best way. Otherwise they wouldn't do it. At the end of the day it comes down to what you want out of the dog and how the classes are run. There's nothing wrong with working your puppy off leash around other dogs, it's when it becomes a puppy free for all that problems start.

You'd be much better off teaching your puppy to have a neutral value for other dogs/puppies over a positive value through off leash socialisation. It's all well and good to have a dog that loves other dogs - until you realise that your dog now has such a high value for dogs/play that he now couldn't give a hoot what you ask of him in the presence of other dogs. BIG problem if you want to compete in dog sports or have good off leash control and not one that is easily fixed. People are not trying to talk you out of it. Just trying to point out some of the negatives that you may not have considered ;)

I dont think the mother is cruel or stupid, just uninformed and probably not an experienced dog owner. We had a Kelpie cross as kids and used to ride my bike with her, rollerblade with her and walk her on my own (I was around 11 or 12 at the time). She had no proper training and from memory I think I may have used a check chain half the time. In hindsight it was stupid and dangerous and lucky neither of us were ever injured, but at the time no-one batted an eyelid. Perhaps if someone had pointed out the dangers to my mum then she would have thought twice and not allowed it.. I would never allow a child to walk with a dog that they did not have full control of, and a child having full control of any dog that is not extremely small, elderly or 100% reliable is not likely.

I'd also be curious to know. There is a certain registered breeder in SA pumping out overpriced puppies (not the one above either). No health testing, temp probs, uses unregistered dogs -yet puppies somehow have papers... Some constructive advice though. Boiled pumpkin and chicken with a little natural yogurt is good as a bland meal. Probiotics may help long term. If the pup has "severe" diarrheoa, diarrhoea lasting more than 24 hours or if there is blood then I'd be heading off to the vet asap.

I'm guessing that GR CH MIERIDGE GATSBYS APLAWZ is a son of Spring Valley's great Gatsby? Gatsby is my boys grandfather

Why? Because "She's such a nice pet" and "all my friends want one just like her" Because "she cost so much so I might as well get something back" Because "My sister bought one of the same breed and it's a boy" Because "my friend/sister/neighbour breeds all the time and nothing EVER goes wrong" Because "All children should be able to experience puppies" Because "this dog is massive, his pups will be huge" Because "the guy down the road is gonna pay big bucks to use him over their bitch and I'll get a free pup" Because "the pups will make awesome guard dogs" Because "The pet shop wants puppies" Because "I can make HEAPS of money with no real effort" Because "I can give the pups a fancy name and sell them for heaps" Because "The vet said she's healthy enough" Or the absolute most appalling reason I've heard? "Because this breeder (registered by the way) is giving me one of his breeding bitches to breed with my dog (unregistered BYB dog from registered parents) then he's gonna buy the pups back from me at 6 weeks old and sell them. It's an investment and I'm going to breed her 3 times a year (yes this person has NO idea) and make heaps".

I think that you're missing the point. I agree. Some people here just need to get over it and move on..

Cost = nothing when it comes to pups. You can pay $10,000 for a puppy, but at the end of the day, she's still a puppy and nothing will change that I should add the the video link that I posted only shows half of the footage, but it does give you a link to the rest at the end. It shows very well how lower ranking pups (ie not the pack leader) will react when food is taken from them. Leerburg do NOT recommend taking food away, placing your hand in the bowl and so forth for teaching pack leadership. There are other ways to do it. There may be some more info on this in other vids, the Michael Ellis ones are particular useful. As for sending the pup back to the breeder? People here will recommend that not to offend you but so that you know that it is a viable option should you decide that it is all to much for you given your current situation.

Okay, not flaming but some advice: Normal. And not a bad thing. A food driven dog is an easy dog to train No puppy is going to have a naturally calm and placid temp, they are excitable, bouncy and stupid. Start with TOT (pinned at the top of this forum or the training forum, I can't remember) It WILL fix your problem immediately as the puppy is tied out and can't jump - they learn very quickly Don't take food from the pup, it's not natural for a pack leader to take food away. Don't allow your son to either. You can easily teach the pup an out or give command outside of meal times. Normal. NO 8 week puppy is going to be completely toilet trained, it's not possible, it takes months. The breeder can start it but you need to continue and be consitant. Take the pup out to toilet every HOUR to start with. ALWAYS on leash, so she can't bolt, take her to where you want her to go and PRAISE when she does. Toileting in the crate after 4 hours - also normal. Baby pups can't hold that long, and yep, it set toilet training back too so more work for you. I understand that you need to keep her safe if you must go out. Perhaps (if you can't keep her outside) invest in a pen instead so that she can toilet away from her bed if she must. Normal. Only a very dominant, confident puppy is going to stare you in the eyes, it's not a natural behaviour. You will need to gain confidence in the puppy before you will get eye contact. No. You need to be there to teach her or she'll never learn anything. But it's okay to put here out in the yard/pen/crate when you are not able to supervise and need a break. No, not normal. But not rare. Worms happen. Yes disappointing, but easy to treat. you have wormed her now and will keep it up. Puppy will be fine and it's unlikely to affect her long term health. In short yes, I think you are expecting way too much from a baby puppy. Have a look at this vid: http://www.youtube.com/user/leerburg#p/u/138/rNQuqY1oXpE You may find it useful.

After the uproar over the Dutch Shepherd x litter, the fact that PP were contacted by some VERY experienced professionals who and warned of the risks associated with selling woking line pups into inexperienced pet homes, and the fact that PP still went ahead and sold them, I'd say you are wasting your breath ;) "very specific and demanding grooming needs" will only translate to "yeah, you have to brush them". MRB: It's not illegal to sell an animal in a pet shop, nor is it considered (by law) to be animal cruelty to sell to an 'uninformed impulse buyer'. PP don't care about the consequences later down the track, they are not obligated to provide any form of "warranty" or to take the dog back months (or even weeks) later. If the new owners go on to negect the animal it's not the pet stores problem.

Glad you added that qualifyer siks. If working dog folk want to get themselves bit that's one thing. Any pet that's bitten its owner seriously doesn't have much of a future. Can't see how patting a dog in a high state of arousal is is going to make it fearful though. Must be a GSD thing ;) I think Siks3 means not to coddle the dog and do the whole "oh poor dog, it's okay, it's okay" thing

I don't. And I'd be mad to! Yep, and I certainly wasn't suggesting books would, either. It's just stuff that may or may not be useful in general/in the meantime. I figured that's the way RockDog would have taken it. I know you weren't suggesting it that way Corvus, but plenty of people do buy books and think that by following the techniques in there, that they will somehow be able to magically fix their dog. Glad the OP isn't one of them but it's an easy trap to fall into :D

Suggestions aside, nothing is foolproof and there is a first time for everything. example: The OP takes the advice given here, orders a muzzle this afternoon (expected to arrive by the end of the week) and keeps her dogs separated. She has organised to go to her parents house for tea tomorrow night and as parents have no dogs and their yard is secure she decides that the best thing to do is to take her GSD with her ans leave her other dog at home. All goes well, then on leaving her parents house she leashes her dog and prepares to walk him out to the car. As she comes down the driveway a small dog runs out of a nearby house and charges aggressively towards the GSD, GSD goes over threshold and drags his owner onto the road in an attempt to attack the small barking dog. So the dog wasn't out of control or dragging the owner across streets yesterday....

Yep, you can. But in the example I posted you'd be weighing up being bitten against being dragged across a busy road and/or you dog mauling another. I know which option I'd pick in that scenario. Or lets change the situation and suggest that your large dog lunges (unexpectantly and aggressively) at a child. Do you choose to A. get a handle on that dog and quickly, possibly get bitten in the process, or B. Let the dog attack the child?? *eta, wrong wording here, I dont met let as such, more not being able to control the dog due to its size and/or aggression. In emergency situations we need to make quick decisions. JMO

So you have said your bit and Fiona has said hers. The OP has read both and has the brains to weigh up the situation and make a sensible decision. There is no need to keep personally attacking Fiona because she has a different opinion to you. The only thing that will achieve is to get this thread deleted.

lol, stop editing your posts PF. I am a slow typer and it's confusing me :D

It was suggested as a method of managing the behaviour until a professional was called in. It was a potentially disastrous suggestion and any trainer worth a damn would never have made it. Perhaps. But she didn't claim to be a professional, just said that she had 20 years of breed experience. It's up to the OP to make the right decision. Knowing that in an ABSOLUTE EMERGENCY (as in your large dog is about to drag you across a busy highway and maul a SWF on the other side) that you can take the power out of the dog by lifting him up by his collar is not such a bad thing. We can all go on to say "The dog should be muzzled/seperated from other dogs/see a professional, blah, blah, blah" But what if the OP doesn't do that? What if tomorrow there is an owner with a large GSD about to attack a smaller dog and the owner has no idea on how to stop it? I'm not condoning Fionas method, but I wont disagree with it either.

Dont think any book will be able to solve your problem. You need to see a professional trainer.

Because Fiona implied that she knew best and that her method was a surefire guarantee to work. And it was potentially very dangerous. When folk start sprouting their credentials, its time to step in and provide some cautionary advice. By all means provide some cautionary advice, I don't disagree with that at all. But there has been a lot more than that going on in this thread ... more like flaming IMO PF, just saw your edit. In Fionas defence she did state in the same quote; "I have layed it on the line with a process that will stop the dog's aggression instantly and allow her to control the situation until she has the opportunity to seek professional help and I make no apologies for that" To me it seems that she has suggested it more as a way to get a handle on the dog in an emergency situation, not as a cure all.

Not sure why everyone has their knickers in a knot over Fiona's post. The OP asked for advice on a public forum and they got it. It is up to them to decide whether to blindly follow advice given over the internet (or read in a book, or given to them by some random person they met in the dog park) or to use their brain and see a professional instead.

No advice and completely off topic but I (under completely different circustances, but still the same level of frustration) know EXACTLY how you feel.

Catholic dogs have souls ... Do dogs go to Heaven? Quite a debate between two churches! This is literally a 'church signs' debate, being played out in a southern town, between the Catholic church and a (fundamentalist) Presbyterian church that face each other across a street. From top to bottom you will see the response and counter-response over time. The Catholics are displaying a much better sense of humor! You get the impression that the Presbyterians are actually taking this seriously!

No, but it's pretty inspirational I'm 99% sure that the dog was trained in drive though. Perhaps I read it on one of her other vids or something?? Not sure because almost everything is in Latvian

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