Mrs Rusty Bucket

<table> <tr> <td><img src=http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/bluetripodjuly/banksia.jpg width=300 alt="victorian banksia"></td> <td>text here</td> </tr> </table> I use tables eg one row, two columns - picture in one column, text in the other. But don't seem to be able to do it here. Trouble with code. Hacking risk.

It's probably polite to blurr them out. Google blurs out car number plates and the faces of children (or very short people) in their street view. Just to keep themselves and the photographed ones out of trouble. Theoretically if it's a public place - anything you photograph is fair game - but in practice - there are some exceptions. I do believe news broadcasters are not supposed to broadcast the faces of children without written permission from the parents. What a PITA that is. And our State Government is trying to get pictures of kids in swimsuits (school swimming sports day etc) banned too. And it would be extremely rude to publish an identifying photo of a car wreck, for example, before the next of kin have been told. There used to be a website that published pictures or videos of cars (and their licence plates) breaking traffic rules - but I think that got taken down very quickly. Ideally if you want to publish identifying info - ask the subject if that's ok with them. get in writing if they're prone to changing their mind.

m-sass I could point you at about four labs and one GR that I would not trust at all. Maybe more. They're perfectly capable of inflicting serious damage and killing too. This is the NSW stats. Labs are much higher in the list of the top 20 than pitbulls. I would argue that most of the pitbulls were mystery scary looking cross breeds. http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/dlg_generalindex.asp?sectionid=1&areaindex=DAIDATA&documenttype=8&mi=9&ml=10 Border collies and JRT are also higher up the bite list. And I suspect if the dog is smaller than a JRT - people are too embarrassed to say what bit them - and call it a pitbull.

My brother once told me not to put my hand into the back of the ute when his dog was there. A bit late now to tell me - I say - as he comes around the corner, to see his dog all blissed out having an ear rub from me. I think I could have taken anything I wanted including the dog.

That's a good explanation Jed. I would not blame the victims or find that dog's behaviour acceptable - but there is a lot that could have been done to prevent that incident - and banning that breed (and nobody has claimed it's a purebred anything anyway) - would not have prevented that kind of incident. Certainly if the owner had introduced the dog around and talked to his neighbours about how to interact with it that would have helped. I will never forget one of the "gods must be crazy" movies where the little kid got a big stick with a shield? on it and held it over his head to make himself look bigger to a wild dog / hyena.

Every single dog in Victoria can be seized and destroyed whether it has ever shown any aggression at all or not. Except ANKC Amstaff. That's how the current law is written. The law as it is currently written gives people with small dogs and children a false sense of security - ie only one kind of dog is dangerous and the rest are safe. I've seen a dog ripped up in front of me - by a Golden Retriever and I could do anything about it without endangering my own dog. The BSL won't save anyone or any dog. And there are already a team of lawyers working on rendering it useless ie no dog can be legally seized until it has hurt someone - because they can't prove what breed it is. At the moment - the law is trying to figure out who or what is going to commit a crime in advance. Erm. That would be nice but it is fundamentally wrong. You can't judge a dog by the way it looks and you can't judge people that way either. You can judge people and dogs on past behaviour - so some people should not be allowed to own or live with dogs. Some dogs do need to be PTS - but focussing on the dogs and ignoring the people's part in it - isn't going to fix anything. And your child and SWF is far more likely to be squashed by a car. But we're not trying to ban all cars. It's a double standard and it's not rational.

i think the dog is in trouble and it's the owner's fault. Cars are special places for dogs. I've lived with one dog - I've had to tie him up inside the car so he couldn't get out and eat the policeman who was trying to give me a speeding ticket. I don't allow dogs to hang their heads out the windows - I've been hit by too many christmas beetles cycling to know how bad that feels. And I wasn't going to open a window while that dog was doing the full on growl bark power display. I've had another dog stay so quiet on the back seat the policeman trying to tell me off for something I didn't do wrong (having discused the incident with another policeman later) anyway that policeman didn't notice I had a dog in the car. Not sure what she would have done if he tried to get into the car. Eat him or lick him to death. Pick one.

can't prove that it is either. what's the point. Agree with that. you're in a thread about BSL arguing against those who want to get rid of it. This feels like you're supporting BSL. you're the one who brought up provocation. I argued with your definition. I think most dog attacks are provoked - you think the opposite. It doesn't really matter if they are provoked or not. Owners should still protect their dog and prevent the attack and the provocation if they can - but there are some lawful exceptions Bringing up the per capita argument (horses and sharks) about risk - is fair, I think. You seem to think it's silly. Hanging out with a horse is more dangerous than hanging out with a dog. Politicians are concerned about preventing death - but they're not taking into account the risk, likelihood or where the resources might best be used to reduce the death toll. Ie a lot of hysteria and resources going into something that is very low risk for most of us and relatively stuff all resources for the high risk stuff (eg cars, bad food). The TV news is all about stirring up emotion, so children being ripped to pieces by animals is primally emotional and exciting in the way that Daddy running over his toddler in the AWD is not. I don't know why. I that criminal offenses should apply to owners of any breed dog that is allowed to attack and injure, not just the ones described in the BSL. Trouble with the BSL in Vic as it is - is that any dog can be taken away and PTS whether it's done anything bad or not. To me that's wrong. All dogs in most parts of Australia have to be registered. How hard is it to have an ownership licence that goes with that. If you're caught with a dog and you don't have a licence or your licence has been revoked because you've been proven irresponsible with dogs - then you can be punished and the dog rehomed - before anything bad has happened. To me that would be fairer than PTS dogs because they look scary or the ranger doesn't like them. You can't legally buy a gun in Oz without a licence. And you'd have a hard time driving a car out the show room without a licence. So it would also help if it was illegal to sell a dog to someone who doesn't hold a valid licence.

I guess I am defending the dog in that I think that the whole incident was caused by the owner or person who was responsbible for looking after the dog. Banning that type of dog (even if you could adequately define that) will not solve the problem of bad owners. I'm arguing with your definitions of "provocation". And I'm suggesting that dog bites could be prevented by other means than banning a whole "breed". In the UK and Italy and a lot of other places - they have found that banning certain breeds (Italy banned 95 different breeds before they twigged) - does not reduce the incidence of dog attacks (provoked or not doesn't really matter to me). So why are you advocating banning a whole breed - a law that cannot be enforced fairly - because we currently have no reliable way of identifying what breed a dog is. It's already known on most places other than Victoria that the problem lies with the owner. It's the same with cars. They're lethal when not managed responsibly. There's plenty that people can do to avoid accidents but mostly it comes down to the safety and responsibility and competency of the driver. And we do consider drivers need training and a licence that can be taken away from them if they don't act responsibily with their potentially lethal weapon. Hopefully cars will one day require a valid licence before they will operate - or maybe we'll get cars that drive themselves safely - I'm hanging out for that one. But for dogs - I think the owners should be licenced, pass some sort of basic competency test, and have the licence (and dog) removed if they're found to be irresponsible and dangerous with their management of their dog(s). This would work much better than something breed specific. Because it would apply equally to all dogs and their owners.

I let mine do zoomies but if it involves anything bad like bouncing off the fences like those extreme skateboarders who go jumping off stuff without the skate boards (forget the name of that) - I catch her and hold her until she's calm and paying attention and then let her go again. We like open spaces - the yard can be a bit small, the beach is the best cos she's got somewhere to cool off when she gets too hot from all the running. If she (and her doggy friends) look like they're going to crash tackle me - I make a lot of noise so they look where they're going. And I keep a good watch out and my knees bent and flexy. It still hurts if they do crash tho.

I tend to write people like that off as having mental health problems - the aggressive antisocial kind of problems. It might not be PC, but it makes it easier for me to remind myself that everyone has their own problems and not to mess with crazy people. I might have shown her a poop bag by way of offering reassurance. My mum has a crazy anti dog poop lady who haunts the lane by her house. I got confronted by "crazy lady" one time with the dog, while the lady was picking up other people's poop - when she started ranting at me - I asked her if she wanted some more - and offered my bag already full of dog poop. I think she felt better then. I often want to cheer people who pick up after their dogs - especially men - because so many men seem to have a hard time doing it, ie if I see a male and female together with one or more dogs - almost always it's the woman who picks up. Sometimes the bloke doesn't even help by keeping an eye on the dogs while the woman picks up. ie the other dog craps while she's busy and he doesn't notice. But I don't know how to say "keep up the good work" without seeming like a crazy person myself. But sometimes I do. And for people who pick up their cigarette butts too. One person I met had a special portable ash tray tin for the purpose cos she didn't like the litter any more than I did. But I do think variations on "road rage" are becoming more common. At worst, people out for a night on the town get killed by very angry crazy people. At best - you get yelled at by a "crazy person". Sometimes it's me. PICK UP AFTER YOUR DOG. But I only yell that at people when I've seen the dog do the crap and I'm sure it's their dog.

If they'd stood their ground and not run screaming - would the dog still have attacked. What happened before the dog attacked? Were the children standing in ground the dog regards as its territory? Were the children making a lot of high pitched squealy noises? Had the family (that got attacked) previously had any interaction with the dog - good or bad? Bad security, bad training. Bad owner. But if the children had been able to remain calm (almost impossible I know) would they still have been attacked? I wasn't there. I don't know. I do know that banning a particular breed and not a particular kind of owner - won't help. And so I have little respect for what the Judge says on that. Fear biting - usually happens after a series of warnings by the dog. Unless its been trained not to give any warning. So if I say "you're scaring me - back off" and you continue to approach - I will consider that provocation and I will attack with everything I've got if I think there is no other way to protect myself from someone who doesn't understand "no" means "no". I've yet to see a fear biter cross an oval to make an attack. If a dog does that - it's not a fear biter. I have stopped a dog from aggressively rushing at me - just by turning side on to it and avoiding a direct gaze. I have no idea why it rushed me. Owner was most surprised. I was surprised he allowed it off lead. That dog - was a golden retriever. And I've seen them involved in several quite savage attacks. Usually over some resource.

I asked for samples. I asked other people where they got theirs... and some of them ran out - like pet stock one - but they gave away $10 vouchers instead - which I donated to the all breeds rescue - because I never get around to using them myself. Super coat stand - you had to donate $2 to AWL - but how hard is that. There was a nice double tennis ball rope toy in their bag. And the vegemite biscuit (I can't remember what it was called) was for completing the agility course. There was a stand selling those too and the rescue mob got themselves a generous deal too. The rescue mob did get permission from AWL to be there, but there was some confusion about that - because AWL had an "exclusive deal" to be there. Ie plugging RSPCA would have been frowned on. So it would be a good idea to get permission from the organisers (Purina) and AWL if you want to take some adopt me dogs for people to see, or collect samples on behalf of the rescue. It was a bit strange when one half of the group didn't know what the other half was doing, and I further confused the issue by wearing an AWL reunion tshirt ie my dog was from AWL - so I was plugging that too. I think it would have been a good idea if AWL had brought some dogs for people to see, even if they didn't adopt any out on the day. A lot of people believe that all shelter dogs come with problems. So it would be good for them to see some dogs that don't have major problems at an event like that. Frosty was very well behaved even though she was a bit overwhelmed at times, and people were suprised I got her as a 10 week old puppy from AWL (ie all her issues belong to me). A few people asked if I wanted to adopt her out. Erm no, but you should got check out what they have at the AWL. And visit not just once, but a few times. And the best dogs (puppies) are not always on their website.

how many dog attacks are "unprovoked"? we're talking about banning something because it's connected to human fatalities without looking at why. Eg Silly (dangerous) owners. Or how likely - not very.

Cheese singles are much cheaper per kg than dried liver treats. Even metwurst is cheaper. Sometimes I use kitten kibble for treats - it can be bought for about $4/kg. Though I don't like reading the ingredient list. Ordinary sausages or steak - is cheaper per kg and makes a great soft treat. Or you can mix ground up meat or tinned fish into a cake or biscuit mix instead of sugar and fruit... reduce the milk or liquid until the mixture has the right consistency - and bake. But personally I've not bothered with that. It's easier to roast up a piece of beef or lamb and save bits of that. The price of supermarket dog treats does compare well per kg with crayfish. Ie crayfish can be cheaper. PS - to me a treat - is anything a dog will work for. Not necessarily what the supermarket sells as "dog treats". Most of what Frosty gets as training reward is her dinner kibble.

I got an email to say my order had been processed, and then a bit later - another to say it had been shipped and how to check where it is. If you're not getting these emails - you might want to check your spam filters and make sure the cleanrun id is in the not-spam list. These are the two sender emails (swap _at_ with @) info_at_cleanrun.com USPS_at_cleanrun.com

Bees, swimming pools and hot water on the stove... cause more injuries to children than dogs. I think bees and pools kill more too. http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/bees-the-sting-in-the-tale.htm And quad bikes killed over 15 people last year. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/2f762f95845417aeca25706c00834efa/1e41688cb7c8b15dca2570ec0073d9e9!OpenDocument Cars - we should ban all cars. Or all drivers. Or both.

Probably is a discussion for "off topic" but relationship drama is very popular at DOL. The whole puzzle of why some people do what they do and how to deal with it. i think RSPCA has probably had bad experience and wasted money bringing cases and not getting convictions for puppies kept in a poor environment as far as their mental health and physical development goes. As more information becomes available (more scientific studies) on the damage it does to a dog (or cat?) then they may have more chance of getting a conviction. But we still do it to humans - at great mental and physical cost - so until judges and governments stop viewing that as ok - we need to limit some people's freedom but that doesn't mean locking them up in a small dungeon for endless periods of time. Same for other animals - except maybe reptiles and some fish and moles. The SA government attitude is "rack em, pack em and stack em" - and no wonder so many of them are only good at more crime when they get out. And don't get me started on what the Feds are doing to refugees.

so vegemite or promite is not enough vitamin B? Or not the right sort?

I keep wondering if the "easy off bam" bathroom cleaner is supplied with the cleaning bloke attached. Otherwise - not much point in my opinion.

Labradork I've had the same problem with people who refuse to hear or believe it until they experience it. Sigh. That's why it's best to keep them out of a pet shop that sells puppies / kittens. I've talked a few out of it. You can only hope your "friend" won't go there for their next critter or supplies. And I have trouble staying friends with people like that. If they hear me out on something I care deeply about - and then proceed to do the bad thing anyway ie up yours I don't give a sh!t about your opinion. It's hard to stay friends with people like that. With some things - if they have a different way of doing things - I'm fine. But knowingly supporting a puppy farm - that's hard to take.

I think it's highly unlikely that this particualr dog had been in the pet shop all that time. I also think it's a good idea to boycott and stay out of petshops that sell puppies. And advise other people thinking about going in to do the same and tell them why. Ie what mixedpup said - buying from pet shops is funding the problem not saving a dog. Ie "saving" one dog from a petshop condems many more to ongoing misery. If she really wants to save a petshop / puppy mill puppy - there's plenty at the shelters. Especially the ones that are too old to look or be cute any more. Salespeople have been known to say whatever they think the buyer wants to hear. And "its the last one of the litter" and "nobody else wants it" and "if you don't buy him, we're sending him to be PTS tomorrow" are common things that "seal the deal". It's wrong and it should not be rewarded and encouraged with a sale. http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-a-responsible-companion-animal-breeder_327.html You can't know if the animal has been bred responsibly, has sound parents who live in a good quality environment unless you visit the establishment - ideally after getting recommendations from several independent sources. And the breeder's website and other marketing is not an independent source.

My dog asks for what ever I've got - because I've got it. But she isn't always pleased with it when she gets it. She does not understand why I eat oranges at all. No idea why I use lemons. And gets really excited about apple and apple peel but won't eat it - unlike some other dogs I know (including a lab). She doesn't mind banana, and loves potato chips and crisps but draws the line at raw potato peel. Goes mental for pappadums (cooked) and popcorn. Does not like raw hard pasta. But if i put a bunch of treats out to see what she likes best - she just starts at one end of the line and eats along it till she gets to the end. Doesn't care if she eats the kibble before the roast chicken. But she does a much better figure 8 obedience style if I have a chicken or sausage lure than kibble. Otherwise she wants to greet the post people. Ie I rate the value of the treat by what distractions she can ignore when I have it.

No, not a good idea to buy food. And not a good idea to buy herbal remedies either. There's a thread in here about that somewhere. Ie depending how they get described, they can be confiscated. It's not customs - with the food - it's quarantine.

If you really can't wait - I know All breeds rescue has a boy adult beagle looking for a home. He's very affectionate and nice if you like beagles.