mita

Maybe cos they look cute enough to gobble right up? :D He does look like he's made out of milk chocolate, doesn't he! :)

I think this question of 'preferences' then affecting 'standards'.... which in turn, can have 'less desirables' amongst them... is the interesting one. How much, if any, comes from a popularity thing? And how much to some reference to place (& purpose?) of origin? It seems a shame for 'interesting' colours within a breed to be selected out if it's just an 'At One Time' popularity thing. To me, that makes periodic Reviews critical. For example, Tibbies now are accepted in all the solid colours, shadings & partis. But I was surprised to find out that the very attractive (to me) liver or brown, was once 'not wanted'. (That's a bit like those lovely (to me) chocolate Poms which are making a 'comeback' after many decades.) "The b-gene is the recessive allele for livercolour or brown. A puppy will only become livercoloured or brown, if both parents carries the b-gene. Earlier liver or brown was not wanted in Tibbies, but is now approved as a colour variation." Maybe it's just me... but how could this colouring have once been 'not wanted'? Reasoning?... popularity, or some connection to place of origin?

That was an amazing looking dog in the pic you posted, becks. It's good if posters can give a pic example of a colour or a link. Hard to visualize accurately when you have no experience with a breed. And some colour labels seem so different across breeds. Like 'sable'. Our p/b sable Sheltie was unike any of the sable in Tibbies. And I noticed Diva referred to a rare pattern in Borzois called sable. That made me curious!

The very elderly dog (15 yrs) I posted about, where the decision was made PTS, may well have been complicated by an age-related onset of canine dementia. Certainly, even the most powerful meds were water off a duck's back in having any effect on her. She'd had a period of separation anxiety when she was 3 1/2 years old & it was then successfully treated with behavioral strategies (from vet behaviourist) with some low dose valium to hose down the anxiety so she could learn. It emerged again at age 15 yrs following the sudden loss of her younger 'sister' dog she was devoted to. So her case is a bit more complex in the age component & also the sudden trauma of loss. The other dog I posted about was much younger, with a bright outgoing nature. Around 3 yrs, like your Roo. Because she was so consistent in ripping soft furnishings to pieces when left alone, I honestly thought she was a hopeless case. But the vet behaviorist pointed out she was still young so capable of relearning & should show progress. I didn't share her optimism. But I followed the guidelines to the letter.... & they weren't even complicated to do. To my amazement, this dog (a female Sheltie) did start to show improvement. Soon the problem faded away. During that 'fading' time, we happened to adopt another Sheltie, a rescue boy (because he was in great need). So that might also have helped her. But she definitely improved hugely, first on behavioral strategies alone (no medication & no second dog). By the time this boy joined her, she was really over her problem. She lived until she was 15 years (the boy pre-deceased her by a few years) & never showed the problem again.

Good on you for publicizing this page. Very relevant at the moment.

Your whole post is interesting on the point of connection between genes, colour & deafness. Rangheld Primdal (Scandanavin) on the Tibbie Net website, talks about this. She refers to twp different views, which sure backs your point that it's not as simple as has been 'traditionally' thought. Tho' you have referred to even further research: The sW –genet is the most recessive gene. It produces extreme amounts of white and quite often the dog only has small, coloured markings around its eyes or on its head, ears or tail. sw will, in combination with S or si , give atypical particolor patterns. According to Ms. Catherine Marleys article on Lhasa Apso, she writes that the sw --gene often appears together with deafness in the inner ear (cochlea). I know of two cases like this in Tibbies. But according to a Norwegian canine medical book called: ”Hund, Avl og Helse” (Dog, Breeding and Health), written and published by the Association for Veterinary Practise on Small Animals, there are no hereditary defects tied into this gene, but instead to the M-gene, which in double doses can cause deafness and sometimes even blindness and sterility. I have not been able to find out which source is correct.

I found a site that says chocolate was one of the 4 main colours a century back. Then got 'killed off' (whatever that means) in favour of orange in popularity. But says choc's coming back in the showring. Must have been a colour preference issue, not change in what's acceptable. http://www.cantonpomeranians.com/chocolates-are-sweet

I think Tonka's smarter than the average dog. He's figuring out the most direct way ahead for a little guy like himself.

Good on you. I thought the discussion & links provided in the original thread were excellent. Very educational. I'm putting in the mix Tibetan Spaniels where all colours , shadings of the basic colours, & parti-colours are acceptable for full registration. What people might prefer, according to personal taste, is another matter. The range & genetic implications for achieving that range, here. Click on Color Genetics in Tibetan Spaniels: http://www.tibbies.net/coat_color.html

No, this is not an entry in the Cutest Koala competition. It's a Tibetan Spaniel. Click to enlarge:

A gracious apology, Caz. I've had 2 dogs with separation anxiety myself and it's such a hard problem as you watch much-loved pets go through distress. One dog that I thought would be a hopeless case, soon showed progress when we followed a vet behaviourist's guidelines. And was soon fine... with the problem never to return again. But she was young, didn't harm herself & just destroyed the soft furnishings. No medication was prescribed in that case. The other dog was very elderly. She literally 'cried' non-stop for hours as if her heart was breaking. It came on after her younger 'sister' died (from a veterinary error). Became chronic & constant & nothing would shift her distress, unless she literally was being held. Even tho' every medication & behavioral technique was tried. Finally, a gentle help to heaven. Both dogs were equally loved & their mental well-being fought for. Two different outcomes.

He's just adorable. Lovely Pup is my guess. :) I notice he's got pointy feet... I love dogs with those hare-feet. Makes them fast & sure-footed.

Thank you so much. I asked for senior cuties.... & the Westies have put all their best paws forward to prove age doesn't dim gorgeousness.

I'm just a tibbie pet owner & don't have expert knowledge. But my advice would be to talk with your tibbie puppy's breeder. Or ask the Tibetan Spaniel Association of Victoria. Their email is [email protected] I've found them helpful people whenever I've contacted them. Let me know if this gets you some expert advice.

Bridgette's not the only one in tears! Lovely story, lovely pics, lovely band of people who make sure Buddy didn't perish in the pound, lovely rescuer who kept him until the right home came along... & lovely family who adopted him. There's a look dogs get when they know they're loved... and home for life. Buddy's got it.

Unless you break the forum rules, you have as much right as anyone else to make a point about a matter already brought up. And you've done so, offering a real-life testing. Seems it hasn't been taken up. It's back to the main topic.

Staffy, there's different kinds of 'cute'. I think Zig's adorable.

Another problem about announcing a winner... the pics will stop coming!!!! More, more, please. Don't stop! Age is no barrier to cuteness. Here's a very senior tibbie, with the true name of Lady Gizmo. Ain't she just a lady! Click to enlarge. Here's hoping for more cute seniors . :)

Thanks for that addition, westie. I'd never thought of that.

I think sas has offered a possible option... but also a realistic & humane worse case scenario. Another suggestion for you. There's a Behaviour Helpline at RSPCA Qld. Even tho' it's Q'ld & you're in Victoria, I once asked them if they'd mind a Victorian person I knew, speaking to them about a problem with their pet. They said they'd be happy to do so. These people are well informed about dog behaviour... very experienced in the severe problems... non-judgmental, compassionate & realistic. Just in case you'd like to run the essentials of the problem past them, I'll PM you the phone no. BTW, we had a sheltie with appalling separation anxiety. She didn't hurt herself, tho', but ripped the soft furnishings to pieces when left alone. The room would look like a blizzard had hit.... followed by a cyclone. We were given guidelines by a behaviorist vet at the UQ vet clinic. To be honest, I thought she was hopeless, but I followed the routines and sequences prescribed. Didn't believe they'd work, tho'. To my amazement, she soon started to show improvement & finally was fine. But each dog is different & I'd imagine so would the extent to which the problem is embedded. I think you're doing everything possible with your doggie. I know from experience it's such a hard problem.

There are some competitions where everyone, deservedly, comes first. This is one of them!

Good general care, sensible diet, making sure he/she's secure from danger, vaccinations, worming , lots of love, prompt vet treatment if there's a health/injury problem. The rest is up to the genes mix. Our little mixed-breed dog, rescued as a puppy, lived until she was nearly 23 yrs of age. Until her 19th year (when she had some tooth surgery), she never needed any vet treatment for illness, except for desexing when young. It was much the same with our purebred sheltie girl who also had no problems throughout her life, except in her last year (some arthritis) at nearly 15 yrs. By contrast, our rescue sheltie boy developed pancreatitis & skin allergy during his life. Though, he had the same care. And was, in fact, my heart dog. Beautiful temperament.

I also wouldn't even get up to whatever the 'imperfection' is. A dog with an over-timid temperament is not a suitable choice when there are children in the family. Good on you for running the situation past people to get opinions.

My little tibbie girls were pleased to know they don't have to eat like wolves. Just when I was going to tell them to go out & hunt their own food. Love the pic of the Lab tucking into pasta.

It's a waste of breath to talk with zealots. It's what zealots do ... not listen to anything that doesn't confirm their belief. Which is usually so outrageously off-beam that it attracts a heap of attention... so other people keep repeating their nonsense for them while saying, 'Isn't it awful!'. Attention is better going to presenting balanced views to the general public... with evidence to back them. So people can make up their own minds. CHOICE (was Australian Consumers' Association) does a fair job of gently pointing people to registered breeders & ethical rescues, as a guide to getting a pet. Also lists Dogzonline among the sources (well done!): http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/backyard/pets/buying-a-dog.aspx