cavNrott

grumpette: In Sophie's case radiation therapy isn't an option. It's a localised therapy. Radiation kills normal cells as well as rogue cells and as Sophie's primary tumour is on her gum line it would be too dangerous. It could affect her optic nerve as well as the salivary glands. That plus the fact that radiation usually has to be done for several weeks to be effective. We don't think Sophie has several weeks. She is not on chemo but has one chemo drug along with all the non chemo drugs included in the metronomics regime. This regime is not making her feel sick and it may slow down the progression of the disease..in fact I would say it is doing its job because it wasn't expected that she would still be here with me. With osteosarcoma, by the time it's diagnosed it has usually metastasised to the lungs but doesn't show on xray at the early stages. I believe there has to be a billion? cells before the lungs mets is visible on xray. Sophie doesn't cough and when I listen to her chest with a stethoscope her lungs are clear. Sophie's primary tumour was in her gum and has invaded her jaw bone causing osteosarcoma. Neither chemo or radiation is very successful with osteo. I wouldn't put Sophie through the trauma of either treatment for the sake of maybe, an extra month or two of life. Whatever time she has left I want to be as stress and pain free as possible for her. Quality before quantity is the way for us to go. Both BP and I have dogs with osteosarcoma in the head. Sophie's has already travelled from the primary location along the jaw bone right to the back. Her eye on that side has changed slightly in shape though it wouldn't be noticeable to anyone who didn't know her. It no longer looks identical to the other eye, it's slightly more round in shape. That tells me that the cancer cells have spread further along and upwards. I'm speaking for BP and myself here, we know to watch our dogs very carefully for any slight temperament changes because this will indicate to us that the cancer is invading the brain. Osteo is usually found in the limbs and it's not often found in the head. Both of our dogs drew the short straw. We are seeing the oncologist again tomorrow and Sophie will have more blood and urine taken. Her pain medication which is Feldene in the morning and Tradamol at night is working well for her. She sleeps more than usual but when she's awake she is happy just as she always has been. I daresay the drug regime will be changed tomorrow, it's usually either added to or one drug is taken away when we see the oncologist. They do a full FBE so they can keep track of what's happening with Sophie. I guess that's why they keep changing some of the drugs. Thanks to all for the good wishes and the lovely pm's. As always, it gives me strength.

She has meds at different times of the day BP so I won't risk it. Also I don't want it to slow down or reduce the absorption of all the stuff she has to take.

Thanks so much for doing that research grumpette. I had no idea slippery elm had so many uses. It seems that though there are no interactions with Feldene or Tramadol it might block or delay the absorption of drugs so best I don't give it to Sophie. We need her drugs to be absorbed thoroughly and hopefully quickly.

Yes a health food store or the chemist. I was giving it to Sophie berfore I started on the Maxalon. I bought the capsules. It's good stuff but I noticed it was coating her stools so I wasn't sure if the meds would be absorbed properly. Does anyone know?

Sophie's first sign of a problem was at the end of August 2007. I noticed she was chewing her chicken frame on only one side of her mouth. When it happened again the following day I saw her gum was inflamed and sore. I took her to the vet the next morning and the following day she had a perfectly normal pre molar (pm4) removed. It was necessary to do this to look at the underlying gum. The vet saw a lot of inflammation in the gum and sent a biopsy to pathology. Pathology came back with an non conclusive report. They either stuffed up the specimen or didn't know what they were looking at. Maybe the cancer cells were not detectable at that stage but I seriously doubt it. If it was inflamed and sore then there was an obvious problem, we just didn't know what it was. Sophie has always had beautiful white teeth with no plaque and has never needed dental treatment so I guess we had a false sense of security. Sophie seemed to heal well over the next few weeks. About 9 weeks later the same thing happened. This time I could see a blue lump on her gum where the tooth used to be. She was not able to eat by herself now had to be hand fed. She had surgery again on Christmas Eve and the patholgy report came back a few days later with the diagnosis of a highly malignant anaplastic tumour with osteosarcoma in her jaw. We caught this early. I don't know if the prognosis would have been better had pathology come back with an informative result on the first specimen, I doubt it. I think this tumour was aggressive right from the beginning. I don't think we could have prevented it whatever we did. We saw an oncologist a few days after the last surgery and Sophie has been on Tramadol since then together with Feldene a week later. She had Rimadyl in her system and we had to wait a week before she could take Feldene. Sophie has Feldene with breakfast and Tradmadol with dinner. They both appear to have an effective period of about 12 hours pain relief. The Tramadol seems to be much stronger than the Feldene. She is also on a number of other drugs that I've already posted about earlier in this thread. That's the story of Sophies cancer. edited to correct date of start of symptoms

It won't hurt to xray first. At least then you'll know if you're dealing with bone problems.

Have the dog xrayed. I'm surprised your vet didn't suggest this. If it was my dog with a recurrent problem in the same area I would insist on xrays. Without them the vet is only making an educated guess. That's why the problem keeps recurring. The metacam is masking the pain but the cause of the problem is not known nor is it being treated. I don't wish to alarm you but my son's dog who started to limp on her front leg was put to sleep last week. She had osteosarcoma in her shoulder. At the beginning of this the dog also had intermittent pain which was relieved with metacam. The pain then became chronic and she was xrayed. The xrays showed osteosarcoma and she was treated with pain relief until her pain could no longer be controlled. There is no point in trying alternative therapies unless you know what you are dealing with.

Hi Eza, no it's not breed specific but seems to be much more prevalent in this breed than other breeds. The Rottie breed is suffering really badly with osteosarcoma over the last few years. It seems to be showing itself in uncommon places in this breed too. A few of us here have lost our Rotties to osteosarcoma. Most osteosarcoma happens in the limbs but BP's girl has it in the bones of her head and my girl has it in her bottom jaw bone as well as a tumour on her gum. My son's Rottweiler was pts last week. She had it in her shoulder. Bone pain is very severe.

grumpette: what excellent news about Baylee...you must be so relieved

Staffyluv has good info. We talked about it before and her advice is great.

Yes it sounds like it's time for stronger meds for Kiesha. Sophie still has the 3/4 Feldene tablet in the morning but she also has 100mg of Tramadol at night. I find the Tramadol to be a much stronger pain reliever than Feldene. It's a different class of drug, it's an opiate. You're right about the emergency vet charging astonomical fees. They probably wouldn't give you strong pain relief without seeing Kiesha. I'd call the vet tomorrow I think. About Kiesha hiding behind the couch. Dogs hide when they're in pain. They don't want to appear vulnerable because in the wild vulnerability puts them in danger of attack. Though our dogs have evolved a whole lot from Wolves they still have this inbuilt self protection trait. Cats do it too. I doubt it has to do with hearing loss. Dana is hard of hearing and she doesn't hide. To her if she can't hear it then it's not happening. She is very intuitive and is the only other dog here who's aware of Sophie's illness. She was inspecting Sophie's mouth but doesn't do it anymore. Sophie had a quiet day. Today was the chemo drug day and it knocks her around a bit I think. Apart from that she's ok. efs

Good idea BP. I was told head shaking and ear scratching in Sophie's case will be a clear indication that she's suffering head pain. Sophie hasn't done the shake and scratch until this condition arose so if she does it now I know to give her more pain relief. Since her cancer is a very fast growing aggressive one it will/has probably metastasised already to her head. She doesn't head shake much at all as yet. If, as Oonga suggests, she has an ear infection you'll smell that very quickly. It's an unmistakeable smell. My guess is it's head pain.

Bluepoppy: It's probably pain that's causing her to scratch her ears and shake. I was told to watch for that with Sophie and give her extra pain relief if I saw her doing it. Might be time to have a talk with your vet about stronger pain meds.

I wish you luck to Allerzeit in collating information on cancer in our breed. Most of what I've heard is 'Oh no, there's no cancer in my lines." This has come from overseas, not necessarily Aus. I did buy the Robert McDowell osteosarcoma mixture and also the Maritime Pine Bark mix that he suggested. I can't use them though because they're not compatible with the drugs Sophie is on. They arrived the day after we consulted with the oncologist. Also Sophie has more problems with her gum tumour than she does with the osteo in her mandible. The gum tumour seems to be far more aggressive and painful so I have to consider that and use the appropriate drugs to deal with it. So the Robert McDowell stuff is sitting in the cupboard along with many other things I've bought and never tried. BP how is Kiesha today?

Rottnbullies I am so sorry for your loss of Tyson. Osteosarcoma has to be the killer disease of the century for our loved dogs. R.I.P. Tyson.

Thanks Kiash. She has lost her typical Ash head, as you can see in my avatar. She's lost muscle but I guess that's to be expected. She still looks beautiful to me and I'll tell her that her daddy sends hugs and kisses. Allerzeit: Your posts about Sophie always give me confidence. Thank you. Berty: Cruz and Sophie are littermates. I met Cruz and was he ever full of life as a baby puppy. Griff: Hugs to you and Sinna. I didn't know she was sick. Getting old sucks...don't I know it. Old Faith has a weak back end too. She has HD and really is a walking health disaster but she feels fine and is a happy, loving old girl. I love the oldies, there's something special about them. Faith would be somewhere around 11 now. I've had her for over a year and both my vets estimated her to be 10 when she came here so she's getting on. I hope the other sickies are doing ok today. Kiesha, Baylee, Zed, hugs and well wishes from us. Sophie is having a quiet day but she looks to be feeling ok. Mr R & NR. The only difficult part is knowing Sophie is unwell and that I'll lose her soon. The drug therapy was a bit confusing at the start. I was petrified I'd mess it up but it all falls into place fairly quickly. I know by the colour or the shape of each drug now what has to be given when. Some are daily, some 2 x twice a day, some every 48 hours. That threw me for a couple of days but I seem to always have the correct number of each tablet left to last until the next oncology visit. I count them often I'm doing this for me as well as Sophie. I want her with me for as long as possible and I want her to feel well. If this drug therapy made her feel terrible I would stop immediately. For her to stay with me and be in constant pain or misery is something I would not consider. I need to do what I'm doing, she deserves every chance she can get. She's a wonderful representative of the breed. Friendly, to man and beast, happy, playful and obedient...it doesn't get better than that. We need more Sophies in the world, not one less.

Sophie is not actually on chemotherapy treatment. She has one chemo drug amongst the other drugs she's taking. She's on a multi drug therapy called a metronomics therapy that I administer at home. The chemo drug is given to her every 48 hours together with a diuretic drug. If she was on typical chemo she'd have to spend time in the hospital and I've not seen any convincing evidence that chemo works to extend life for long with osteosarcoma. That plus I don't want her to go through the stress of being in hospital after her last stint. The last day she spent in hospital was on Christmas Eve when she had the gum tumour biopsied and debulked. That day was traumatic for her and me. When I went to collect her she was howling loudly and the nurse said she'd been howling since she came out of the anaesthetic. I've never heard Sophie howl before. She stopped when she came out to me and when we drove into to our driveway she cried, she was so pleased to be home. I've never heard her cry before either. I won't put her through that again and I'm not one bit happy about the way she was treated at the vets. She was in pain and her severe pain contined for 3 days. I felt the vet could at least have given her decent pain relief. The pain meds I kept at home weren't strong enough for her. Another trip by me to the vet without Sophie soon remedied that situation and we then had adequate pain relief. The chemo drug she has is to try to slow down the progression of the cancer. She is also on a drug to try to strengthen and build bone in her jaw. She is on a heavy dose of antibiotics and two pain relief drugs. One of them is an opiate and is far more effective than the other one. She has maxalon for nausea and the only time she's vomited was the day I tried her without the maxalon with her breakfast. The chemo drug causes nausea. Vomiting involves a complicated process of cleaning it up because it's cytotoxic due to the chemo drug. I don't know if the chemo drug will be ongoing. I suspect she will be on it as long as she is alive. Same situation with the one for bone growth and the antibiotics. The pain relief will certainly be ongoing and I have a stronger opiate (in the form of syringes) than the opiate tablets she's having at the moment. That will be my last resort and I'll know then that Sophie's time has come when I need to use one of the syringes. My aim in all of this is to try to slow down the rapid progression of the cancer but mainly to keep Sophie pain free. The slowing down seems to be working because we didn't expect her to still be with us at this stage. Her gum tumour is more painful than her jaw. I saw the oncologist once a week for the first two weeks. Our next appointment is next Friday so it will be 3 weeks. Her bloods and urine are taken each time we go there and if they look good we can do a 3 weekly visit instead of weekly. Each time I go, there is either a drug added to the regime or replaced with a different drug. I'm sure they're doing their best with Sophie and I'm grateful they allow me to give her the chemo drug at home. It requires gloves and other precautions to handle it. Picking up poop also needs a double gloved approach and the area has to be treated with bleach. Sophie sleeps more than she used to but otherwise she is the same happy and playful girl she's always been. She misses her walks but I won't take her outside of my property with so much parvo around. Her immune system would be very weak with the drugs she's on. Sorry for the long post. Hope it explains to those who wanted to know.

Oonga thank you for being supportive. It's encouraging to know you understand why this thread has been set up and your understanding is appreciated. GRIFF: Is Sinna sick? I must have missed it in the Rotty thread. I hope it's nothing serious and wish her a speedy recovery.

Thanks Troy for giving us this sub forum. Hopefully it will be a haven of support and encouragement to those of us who have sick and dying dogs. A place where we can receive health advice and moral support from others who have travelled this road. It's a difficult path to travel living with the knowledge that our dogs are dying. We know that each day we have with our dogs could be their last day. We live with this sadness and despair every minute of the day. The moral support from those who care gives us strength. I find it difficult to post updates on Sophie in the general Rotty thread. It's a very upbeat thread and mainly off topic. I feel out of place posting bad news when people are having fun with their posts, it seems I'm bringing the thread down. Also there's the need to acknowledge people who have offered their moral support but I miss some who should be thanked because it's difficult to find their posts amongst the many pages that have been added since their post of support. I hope the people who object to this new sub forum will try to understand why it's needed. It will happen to all of us one day, that we will lose our dogs long before we are ready. I am one person who asked Troy for this section and if that annoys some folk then I have to wear it.

Do your own research ricey, I'm not doing it for you. I have more important things to attend to and you're clearly just wasting time and looking for someone to argue with. I have already stated that I don't know whether or not colloidal silver is of benefit but that it seems to do no harm. Where is the evidence of my 'outlandish belief'? It may also help your case if you make some effort not to be so damn rude.

Ricey take the time to research with an open mind. Right now you have a closed mind which will prevent you from learning anything positive about colloidal silver. Take as much time to look for the positives as you have obviously taken to find the negatives. Alcohol poisons people too but it doesn't stop a large proportion of the community drinking it to excess. I won't even go into what smoking does to people but they smoke. If you or your dog has an open wound put the colloidal silver on the wound daily and you may find it heals in very quick time. Try a drop in the ear for ear infections. People say it works fast, I haven't tried it because my dogs don't have ear infections. I know it worked quickly with a burn I had on my arm and left no scar. I have no idea whether giving it daily to my dogs improves their health but as it's doing them no harm I hope it is doing some good. My Rottweiler has a terminal disease. If colloidal silver might help then I'll try it. It didn't prevent her from getting cancer. I doubt it will heal her cancer either but she is still getting a tablespoon of it in her meal because it may help her in other ways to cope with this disease.

I use Joint Guard with success. Shasha's Blend did nothing for my oldies. Kayla can you tell us more about Glyde please. I've never heard of it.

So how is the puppy getting things out of cupboards? You are closing the door of the cupboards aren't you?

Noraclav is an antibiotic

Puppies chew, that's how they explore the world. He's behaving like a normal puppy. If your pup is chewing expensive items then you are NOT keeping them out of reach at all. If you were he wouldn't be able to chew them. I guess this is a very large breed of dog to be able to take things off the table, unless you mean the coffee table. Is he also able to open cupboard doors or are you leaving them open? Puppies don't know the difference between toys and your shoes. You need to look at where you are going wrong. He isn't the one leaving your stuff around where it can get damaged. If as you say, you can't go on like this then you need to change your habits and put your things safely away where the pup can't get them. The toys and the walking won't teach the pup not to chew. There's nothing quite like a young chewing puppy to teach us in quick time to not leave stuff lying around everywhere.