Rusky

I have seen other posts where you have said 6 months before you can take your pup. This is really silly, call them again and ask why? Normally pups go to school after injections, so around 14 weeks. If you cannot take your pup before that then use the google search engine for positive dog training hits, plus use this great forum and develop a routine yourself. Every day, every second is a training opportunity. Best I can tell you without too much writing is praise the behaviour you want, reinforce with food, pats, get the timing right, must be immediate. If your pup does something you like by accident, say the word, like 'come' 'sit' whatever and praise.

congrats Helen and Bella :p

so sad for you run free dear Billy

oh dear PGM this is why we will never get along not that it matters really I am just astounded and will now leave you all to debate *cough* to your hearts content. hate this too Kavik makes me ill, you are correct of course.

Kavik you can practice the hold from your armchair in the lounge room. Teach in separate excercise the hold and the retrieve. Hold a glove in your hand ask him to take it/ hold it/ give it and praise/click whatever each time it is correct. Then you can place and send just a short distance from your chair. I don't mean do all 3 excercises at once, one at a time. Work on the remote control retrieve and mobile phone ;) Not suggesting you be lazy is just that there are so many training opportunities whilst watching the TV :D

they always comply and never show undesirable behaviour ( I lied) I think we have had this conversation before and you told me that was encouraging an undesired response that the dog will show bad behaviour to display the good and then to be rewarded. That doesn't happen to me but I did wait to see if anyone else had a similar ideas to yourself about it. I do think that there is more than one way, one method, of course there is but we all have choices. We all have opinions and different ideas. I am always open to other ideas but I also research very carefully to make sure that I will be comfortable with what I do. I don't just go off thinking 'oh boy, thats great, Ill try it' When I was young and my Dad had just smacked my darling Bruno over the nose with a piece of hose for something or other I swore I would never ever hurt or punish my dogs, I haven't, there are other ways. You see we all have a story, all have history, all have personal experiences we bring to the forum. My Father used Koehler, I have mentioned this before I am not ignorant of the method.

Trainer I have no disagreement with you my response was to PGM. Since you decided to reply to me... I am not posting snide comments I am posting an opinion on a training method I do not like. I think I have already given enough reasons. I did have a concern that PGM thought I may not understand enough to read English. I can read English and I do understand the text. I remember too when chokers name was changed to check chain and then to training collar here in Australia. There are many people still use check chains even in training class though now many trainers prefer that they are not used. Most clubs here now do have a policy about chains. You said you came here to find peoples opinions on the method of training, well at least you have mine and PGM's.

yes it is a game, should be fun, I constantly look for fun elements to use to include in training. I finally have a clicker as I was trying out with a clicky frog before :rolleyes: one of my own dogs has always responded to the squeeky toy with great excitement and I encourage male owners who sometimes cannot get the intonation into their praise to use a 'squeek' from the pocket. Finally the penny dropped that it is then but a step away from clicker training. I am enjoying reading, watching others train and a wee bit of practice myself. A lot more research and practice needed.

I am so very pleased slowone :rolleyes: great news.

PGM We will never agree, I disagree from the start, heeling, sitting, anying. I do not like jerk around the neck. I do not like the harsh methods of training. I am thankful that these days few clubs use this method. I am satisfied at least with that. I wish I could encourage you to try other ongoing methods. I keep wondering why you think I might be illiterate. I think we may have the same edition of the book and my concerns start on page 29 with penning, or chaining so the release will signify a release from prison :rolleyes: My concerns continue both in the book and previously from trainers who used that method. The idea of new dog owners using the book to train their dogs is scary to me, maybe is comforting for you. We are all different.

Would you prefer that I quote puppy toilet training which involves spanking with a switch or strap and holding his head to the mess. Maybe the older dog who messes inside by giving a hard spanking whilst leaving tied to the mess then returning at 20 minute intervals and punish the dog again, 'pour on the punishment' every 20 minutes. Barbaric and cruel. Tell me which excersie you would like me to quote, you can cross check in your book that I do not lie or exagerate. I really wish you would have a look at other methods, training should be fun for you and your dog. I am not suggesting you personally hang your dog or beat your dog but you follow the training methods of someone who most definitely did and had a long following for a long time. I thank God that at least more and more people are using positives with treats and cuddles.

:rolleyes: anyway I have read the book, I know the book I disagree thats all. I prefer other methods, you know I do , I know you love Koehler.

you know exactly what I mean but I will spell it out ok I think that anyone who would use a method like that for any reason on any dog should not be training dogs. Barbaric bloody cruelty. We will never agree on this PGM, I wish you would maybe just try some positive training methods. I mean positive not negative re enforcement.

Now thats funny because I think the absolute opposite.

ok this is why I do not like Koehler in handling a dog which bites the handler/trainer wtf?? First the trainer makes sure that the collar and leash are more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dogs most frantic actions could cause. Then he (handler) works the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab. Before the teeth have reached the target, the dog is jerked from the ground. As in coping with some afore mentioned problems the dog is suspended in mid air. hOWEVER TO LET THE BITING DOG RECOVER HIS FOOTING WHILE HE STILL HAD THE STRENGTH TO RENEW THE ATTACK WOULD BE CRUELTY. ( this is in upper case as was written) The only justifiable corse is to hold him suspended until he has neither the strength nor the inclination to renew the fight. When it finally becomes obvious that he is physically incapapble of expressing his resentment and is lowered to the ground he will probably stagger loop legged for a few steps vomit once or twice and roll on his side. The sight of a dog lying thick tongued on his side is not pleasant but do not let it alarm you. etc etc etc I do not like Koehler, I have never lliked the type of training, no mention in the world as to why the dog might be aggressive to human handler, shit is cruel and crap. The training method then continues on to use a piece of hard hose to smack down on the dogs nose with a chopping action. I repeat as I have before that Koehler is cruel and outdated.

oh Bommy I am so sorry run free sweet Molly

Hi Haven re your question about undesirable behaviour and verbal correction I prefer an alternative behaviour command. I am sure that gruff voice stuff the 'aacht' can be useful but have found that generally dogs respond to a command they are able to understand and demonstrate. Then I reward. So instead of 'NO' to jumping sit.. drop good boy Personally as many others here I have never ever had one of my own dogs jump up, they learned not to as puppies by working out the behaviour that gave the rewards. Really it is so much easier if dogs learn good manners when they are puppies.

so sorry they will be devastated

what do you want me to say ? If it is important that the dog heels 'good enough' to pass a novice exam in 10 weeks then I am pleased for you. I can only speak for WA, all puppies train for at least 10 weeks then they start formal obedience. Some people are just happy that the puppy is a nice pleasant pet by this time and others like to go on and do a bit more. If they like they can continue and trial or just go fo fun. I am not going to argue with you, I do not like the old methods for general training. You already know that. My Father used Koehler, I think the world did everyone knew the well behaved pets in the movies and all wanted that perfectly behaved funny pet, their own little movie star. I know it worked, I know, but I will never use a method like that on any of my dogs and I will always tell new owners alternative ideas, modern kind ideas which focus on positives for handler and dog. Of course it doesn't take 18 months, you know that too, the trainer I have already said was probably discussing perfect heeling which is 'never' perfect enough for some. Most people PGM really just want a nice well behaved pet, who will go for nice walks, will recall immediately and not jump up or bark like crazy everytime they see a bit of movement. Most do not trial, most just want to enjoy the friendship with their dogs. For those basics are enough and can be learned easily with positive methods.

the area doesn't look too wide could you put netting over the fence like a shade cloth? hardware sells dog proof fly wire which is really for your fly screens but if you could attach to the top of the fence somehow, staples would be good if you know a friendly carpenter, there are heaps in NZ. I mean like a carner triangle. Then I would as someone else suggested use thin pipes. Hammer a stake, wooden or metal into the ground put the pipe over the top at regular intervals along the fence line. What is going on over the fence that interest him so much? maybe try and make his place as interesting, maybe he is chasing the cat?

I think you will find that the koehler method is harsh, positive training methods are almost exclusively used now in obedience class. The stop is ok, I prefer a change of direction, come on puppy here we go, this way. When the pup isn't pulling is ok he can sniff do whatever but if he pulls you change direction. Gently, don't pull him, call him, come on puppy, lets go. Also at home you may need to change a few things but you are starting classes soon and all that info will be given to you. The reason a dog pulls is he is off to hunt, leading the way, this would never happen in a doggy pack, he is too young and inexperienced, he wouldn't think of leading the way. He will try it on but is up to you to show that you are the leader of your pack. You decide where you are going, use a lead and a flat collar, reward with tiny tit bits of food when he does the right thing, maybe then let him sniff the food, to know it is there, make him work for it. You aren't aiming for a perfect heel, just a non pulling dog at this stage. You won't have years, you will have days if you do this consistantly. dog pulls stop change direction dog pulls stop change direction dog doesn't pull, reward, good puppy. Practice for 10 minutes a day and do your other training too. You will be walking beautifully in no time. Good luck. edited to say I am sure the trainer was speaking of perfect heel work not a non pulling dog.

Thank you! Thank you! Dianne for the fantastic images and also Isaviz for the lovely poem. you guys are great

A friends GSD 'Cassie' recently went to the bridge. Cassie was an old girl and her owner who still is an obedience trainer celebrated her 80th birthday a couple of years ago. I want to send my friend a sympathy note and I have seen owners here post the most beautiful picture of a GSD waiting at the bridge. I really would like to send my friend that picture but I have no idea where to look. Cassie was a fantastic dog and so funny as her owner would use Cassie as a demo dog for some excercises which was fine so long as it wasn't raining. Soon as the rain came and she was on a 'stay or wait' she would scoot off to the car and jump in the back to shelter from the rain, she was an elderly dog when she did that but it always made me giggle. I would also see Cassie and her owner just walking in the park, 2 dear old friends strolling along ;) I hope someone can help me with the gif.

The toddler wanders, frigtens me to death, toddler chases cars too, not so much now the dog can't get out. :rolleyes:

our neighbours just installed an innotek fence for their dog who was chasing cars up the shared driveway. The dog used to come over here barking at mine, also other next door setting off the swf's big time, drove me nuts. The dog drove all the neighbours mad, we complained, they put in the fence. I personally would have prefered a real fence but they don't really boundry me, we are semi rural. I haven't seen the dog over here since they put the fence in, she still barks at passing cars on the driveway but doesn't venture out. I really am a hater of electrical, or chain or prong or whatever cos in the wrong hands they can be a disaster. The dog got out first day cos they had it set too low but even too low she wouldn't venture back in. Took a bit to catch her and remove collar and get her in. They told me, I wasn't involved. They left it on that setting anyway. I am pleased they have the fence, it works for the dog, just I am wondering if they might get an extra collar for the toddler. :rolleyes: