Two Best Dogs!

BAT 2.0 has arrived! This book is really dense! I only skimmed for now to get an idea of the content and already I am learning. Like I knew lip licking was a signal to indicate stress of heightening levels of arousal. Did not know it is also an indicator of anticipation! That makes me feel better over the tummy rub lip licking. There is a section on trigger stacking that I only first heard about in January from you guys. It stacked for both of us then and i wish had known in advance. Save us some tears There is the lazy bones BAT (around not reacting to dogs walking past the house?) There is the name game and Lassie protocol, both are methods my behaviourist taught me on that first visit after thistle was attacked. They are invaluable. It will be good to read on how it works in detail sin X that conversation was more general, verbal and a year ago. And, keeping a loose lead in greetings! I really struggle with this, I want to move thistle away from the other dog but I do not want to stress her. Or make it a bad experience. There is a bit around labels too. I label thistle scared and reactive but it is limiting? Can I really call her a scared dog when she takes most things in stride and only certain things upset her, or should I keep it to the situation? I’m not sure because sometimes it's like she's bombproof and other times is small cowering. I’ll read that chapter later as it was to the end of the book. I am looking forward to reading this book! The only bit I am :/ is at the start the trainer talks about feeding yard dogs on their walk. ???? I would be furious if someone did that with thistle. What if she is allergic? What if I don’t want her to take food from strangers when I am not there? Hopefully the author has permission they neglected to mention ???? or was written earlier to that part of the book. The problem right now is it is also a big book. I will need to dog out my big bag if I want to read it on work commute. 101 dog tricks is also awesome ideas. I don't like some of the methods but they describe alternative methods in addition to "push the bum down" style of training.

:crossfingers: :crossfingers: :crossfingers:

I read about it almost a year ago and have cobbled together bits and pieces of it into our daily life. I didn't follow the step-by-step of each day, but what I do use has been invaluable. Maybe I should go through the whole protocol, I can see lots of value in it.

Thank you grumpette She is my trainer as much as I am hers I reckon

Oh Kamz how horrible Is Second Chance Dog Rescue the same rescue as Second Chance Animal Rescue? (The latter I have been thinking about fostering for next year maybe, they seem nice) There's also the Inbetweeners, who going by this flyer I have at home do the dogs "inbetween" homes that may have challenges. What about Save-A-Dog? http://saveadog.org.au/ They have a few long-stay dogs that can only go to specific homes. I am not sure as to the reputation of Noah's Bark, but they are a foster-care based rescue. I wouldn't be putting poor Annie back into the RSPCA, she wouldn't do well in that environment

Are all rotties such opinionated motor mouths when working? :laugh: Thistle is dead silent and serious when "working" but all the rotties i see seem to like barking as they go. I love it! It is so different I laugh every time. She is so happy to work with you. It is heartening seeing your pictures! Currently at this stage I am allowed still right in front of Thistle so I am taking advantage of that, trying to teach her to target my belly to remind her of her positions! But later on expect to stand further away like you are. A tense looking pup indeed probably be what thistle will get to I hope. I think she can do it, just the way we go about it is the important bit. Counting down to this sunday at fingers crossed head trainer intervention. I really do believe if we can start doing it in class in a way thistle "understands" that no harm will happen, she will get pretty reliable at it fast. I think between obedience and rally-o, we'd enjoy rally-o a lot more. It is hard to choose some things to try out with a dog, sometimes it seems like not many choices and other times too much! For agility will just stick to playing on the equipment when no-one else is on it. Having fun (for both of us) is most important parts!

If I make it to advance, thistle will be doing offlead work around other dogs and people. Something I'm only comfortable in the obedience class environment and because I know the other dogs have as solid obedience and the trainers are there to help if something goes wrong. Some in the class are DA but thistle is the only one reactive to humans I think. Or at least, the most noticeable. And in the class my understanding is sometimes dogs are in position and people will switch places and be moving around so thistle needs to be able to hold her position while ppl are in close proximity and I am not. She can do this for stand and drop while I was 5m away. But since she can't hold that stand in class... Currently in lvl 3 we do a lot of work on long lines and at a distance. So the midway point to offlead. but obviously we have had to work up to this. I think even average dogs you can't jump straight to offlead with. Personally I don't think I would do formal obedience or agility. Not yet anyway, 50% thistle but been really turned off by the culture around these. Very unwelcoming to new ppl, even if I am just watching to learn... But I've considered rally o, our class gives introductory sessions and it was fun. Seems less exclusionary, flexible and open to "just for fun" people. I'm really hanging out for nose work but that's only advanced... Just fun activities to do with thistle when we've got most of the tough bits smoothed out ;) but it would depend on the dog, I think even though reactive eventually we can teach her to just ignore other ppl and dogs in majority of situations. Which most of these need. And I intend to attend lure coursing in September :) and I've been looking into weight pulling. Want to try a little bit of everything to see what she enjoys the most. There was someone in dol who taught a scared dog stand for exam...I think it was for showing? It's like the first and only result for "scared dog stand for exam" in Google. I refer to that thread every few months to refresh myself on ideas.

Class was cancelled today cause of the weather looks like it is very heavy rain down that end, it's just a light drizzle for me At least I get a whole other week to keep helping thistle build up an emotional buffer! I thought about taking her to one of our stores today but honestly I'm kind of tired out from worrying over this. Hope I'm not pinning all my hopes on head trainer but he's been real awesome in our few solo-training sessions and the one class session. He says sometimes that the most important part of training is that it is fun! So I am hoping he sees how neither Thistle or I are having fun in class situation with that command... (I am hanging around in the forum today tho...see...head trainer is same trainer as someone with some rottie pups is having over today ;) and I am curious to read what they do! But so far I am lots of respect for him. I haven't been saying his name in this thread though, as I do not want him to get a google alert for what is simply some confused and frustrated ramblings over a single command. Far better for us to work it out in person with clarification and not my stress rants. Especially since it is a different trainer I am confused with, not the head trainer! and I know my forum typing when upset is shit :laugh: ) Oh boy do I want to be in the head trainers class. Looks to be a very compatible flexible training style for us! All that stands in the way of it is stand)

A little boast but look at this stand practice! My link We have wagging tail and confidence again I spent about 15 minutes with increments building up to this then look! A whole minute of a lawnmower going back and forth and she stays in her stand and gets praise/reward and realises no harm. She is smart and can do it with the right approach! Hopefully can help build her an emotional buffer, if I end up having to go with the current class method. It is so hard telling a professional that I am not sure the current way works for this one I do not want to argue with them in front of class but I will if have to...

One last link for this sad thread Googling "Raven Prey" (hyperlink, may find images disturbing) brings up a few photos with Raven's and similar sized prey to a young chihuahua. With momentum from swooping behind it, I could see a raven making off with fudge. I confess, I think little dog owners must be pretty brave to take their dogs outside. So fragile! Someone around here has...it's like a mini-mini JRT puppy and at 3 months old could fit in your hand. Thistle's muzzle is bigger than it and the puppy couldn't fit his mouth around my thumb. Cute, but so tiny and fragile

I would have panicked and probably kicked the other dog so I think you handled it well! I'm glad Malcolm has recovered, surprised off leash dogs are the worst :'(

They are a continual source of help! In exchange I buy lots of stuff from them :laugh: They have been every step of the way, so they know what's up and how to approach her and in quiet moments are very obliging to training. (I have a network of 4 stores to practice to different degrees in! + the market, the RSPCA. I like the controlled environments for practicing "city manners") edit: woops, joyful adrenaline rambling. Thank you, will take all the luck!

Poor Didi I most definitely want to avoid Thistle growling or any other escalations with this method. I hope the head trainer can help out, or I'm going to have to step out of training this command in class until Thistle has more positive feelings with this Trainer beyond "if i nose her i get treats"... We practice stand for exam today - we've been practicing stand on its own all week, but lightly on her keeping the focus on me. I'm tying to give her a target by resting her head in my hand but she moves her head to follow people approaching so might stop that. We started with people walking far away and closer and closer. Then, separately, we had her standing while she got a rub down/massage from the male staff member in the store while I would say the command, click and reward (for her standing there). Then at the end I bought her a doggie biscuit, commanded her into position, moved to my spot with the biscuit as the target and had the male staff member approach head on and run his hand down her back. She whale-eyed and moved her head to watch but no barking, growling or moving away! Treat was eaten in one bite. I bought 6 more for obedience class. Now if only could get the class-trainer to do it this way in class so I can reward Thistle more and she can realise nothing scary!

Very kind of the anonymous breeder. I expect the lady will be a helicopter-owner from now on, but hopefully a new little friend will help. Sparky is a sweet name. Also says it's been clarified the theft was by a raven. (Is that true? Can't say I've noticed if it is but I'm an interstate immigrant ;) )

One of the other articles (with a video interview) says this: They can't get much more out of the poor woman at this point, she keeps breaking down even on the video Poor poor lady.

Yacht clubs and fishing stores. Camping stores to, Aussie disposal sells some nice small ones :)

Oh no! I'm so careful with letting my rabbits out back for similar reasons I hope he was let go and is found http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/outer-east/crow-snatches-puppy-from-kilsyth-backyard-owner-collapses-with-shock/news-story/b231e4d99429d7e3f1be97bdad15a0b9 A KILSYTH woman is shocked and devastated after her tiny puppy was stolen by a crow. Heather Sinden’s four-month-old chihuahua, Fudge, was swooped upon by crows in the backyard of her Astor Court address this afternoon. The tiny dog can fit in the palm of someone’s hand. RELATED: Mother forced to fight to get duckling back from crow Heather’s daughter, Melinda Pride, said her mother had let the dog outside and had seen crows flocking around the yard. “The dog was normally inside, she was just outside going to go to the toilet and Mum was quite concerned about the crows,” Melinda said. “Then she heard her (Fudge) screaming and she was gone.” Other Stories Crow snatches puppy from backyard Crow snatches puppy from backyard Radical $1b plan to transform MCG Radical $1b plan to transform MCG It’s a war on aspiration: Turnbull It’s a war on aspiration: Turnbull Melinda said her mum, who had been battling lung cancer, was given the dog just two months ago to be a companion for her during a tough time. “Mum was only saying a week or so ago ‘if anything happens to this little dog I don’t know what I’ll do’,” Melinda said. “My mum actually collapsed from shock — she was very attached to the little dog.” A crow snatched a duckling at Como Gardens in The Basin last year. Picture: Christopher Chan Fudge’s family are praying for her safe return and requesting people keep an eye out for their beloved pet. They have taken to social media to try and find their precious pet. Melinda said hopefully the dog landed safely and if so it was likely around the Timms Rd area in Kilsyth. Have you seen Fudge? Call Leader Newspapers on 9875 8578 or email [email protected].

My dog behaviourist showed me how to use a break stick or similar to get a dog to open mouth. There is a similar method where you put pressure on side of jaws to force it open but wouldn't know how. If an attack happens again I hope I could get the courage to do what I was shown. Hopefully wouldn't be solo next time either! What didn't work for me was water, loud noise, pulling, kicking or hitting over the head with a frying pan. It was like the dog was closed off to the world and focussed on nothing else but holding onto thistle. I was not hintting lightly! I got the mouth hold off by using my hips to force myself between the two and at the same time the bite hold was being readjusted. Pure luck in other words, nothing definite for me. I hope your friends little guy is okay

Aww I'm so sorry. Glad you can treasure some last days

Me too, this has been a great thread to read! Much to think about raising puppies should I ever decide to foster young ones

ooh thank you!

Sorry I wanted to wait until after dinner to reply. Willem, I tried suggesting something similar, with using her "foot target" but was advised/told that it's...I don't remember the words, but it was along the lines of not challenging her enough. The explanation gist, now that I've thought on it for 24 hours including in my sleep!, is that she is barking and moving because she knows it works. So class-trainer want to keep doing it until she realises it doesn't work and to not back out of comfort zone. Which is something we do sometimes do in some specific situations like when people walking past house - i ask them to stop walking then continue walking away when she shuts up, but I think for this particular command I would like to give her no reason to bark at all. As in, help lessen her being uncomfortable and worried. Like have her a little uncomfortable when walking past but not at barking uncomfortable, reward then, then pass a little closer and reward that and rinse and repeat. Which I think is what head-trainer will hopefully advise as a lot of his other advice for various situations has been around easing her wariness. So giving treats when guests arrive at door, rewarding her sitting quietly when he walks past at her comfort distance by having *us* walk away and shoving more food in her face for sniffing people or being around them. But class-trainer i think is not realising the direct approach is different to when thistle is the one approaching her for treats. Even when dididog did the stand for exam routine, thistle was a little tense and worried face and thistle really likes dididog and it was just a walk by! Class-trainer Thistle tolerates for food, but hasn't asked for pats yet. She still flinches from *me* if i make a sudden unexpected movement :/ Recovers well though I do think once she understands it is like the vet, thistle could hold the formal stand and the lightest touch (as she can hold her sit and drop in similar context), but she doesn't yet understand it is like with the vet? so why a bit more space in the people passing is needed. I wish it was sunday after class so this could be all clarified and some guidance! and also i'm worried by asking a third party to come in i have offended but he is the head-trainer and he is good at catering his explanations for me to understand. and for giving reassuring speeches that thistle needs time, patience and treats ;) Ummmm I think that covers everyone, thank you for all your reassurances that I'm not nuts for having my guts so strongly against the class method i hope sunday is enlightening. Did i mention it in thread? head trainer was at a seminar this weekend and says a dog with a similar situation was in the demo. i'd be interested to see what steps they took to help the dog.

Right now even with stand at home her tail is starting to hang, she is not enjoying it so am trying to turn it back into a game and build her confidence up and let her know she's doing it right. I think perhaps the trainer is seeing it as thistle being disobedient because she knows barking works but i think they might be under estimating her drive to please me? But she needs to realise the pleasing me (stand still and ignore close ppl) doesn't mean she will be hurt (successful ppl passing by at closer and closer) and I don't think she's confident in that yet. Ah well. Will see what head trainer thinks. I have to remember to go grab him after class though! It will only be about 5 mins.

Oh. In the mean time since we are taking a break from exam stand to relax, am working on her normal stand and focus. Will take her to our usual pet store and practice standing and looking at me/ignoring passerby.

Agreed they are not trying to touch her but the immediate head on approach freaks her out. So she barks and breaks. This is video head trainer gave us and this method has been working with friends and pet store staff (but start out with ppl a bit further away but each circle is closer and closer) But unfortunately have only been able to do it like this in class twice, at my request with the trainee trainers. But it worked in those cases, one even a light touch on thistles back over a month ago. All these public holidays not helping ????