Erny

Whilst I understand why you potentially might want and need this information, it would be best to work pro-actively as well as put up meanwhile measures to prevent the occurrence, rather than focussing too much on what to do if it occurs again. Not intended to inflame ..... but not sure from this thread what measures you've decided to undertake to work to resolve the problem.

There are heaps of things you can do/try. However, my "internet" suggestion is that you have dominance behaviours in action. The first step is to establish YOUR leadership. Without it, your dog will have no respect nor accept that you have the right to govern his actions. Spitz variety breeds definately need to understand the guidelines you set and to learn to observe them. This form of dominance can later lead to more serious and catestrophic behaviour if not checked. The second step would be to have someone explain and show you how to extinguish your dog's learnt problematic behaviour and achieve a more harmonious relationship with him. A lesson or two will stand you in good stead and will probably achieve a much faster and successful result than suggestions (which may or may not suit you and your dog) over the net. (If you do engage someone qualified to assist, he/she will also be able to assist you with Step 1. ) ETA: If you let me know where you are located, Skuzy, I may be able to assist you or at least offer some recommendations for people to contact.

Warley - are you talking about Valium, or about Tryptophan (component of Tranquil paste)? If Valium - then I agree with the above. If Tryptophan, my understanding is that it can be used as part of the dog's "higher carb/lower protein" diet. So I don't see where "timing" comes into it.

Heard of it. Read of it as part of my research into avoidance motivated aggression. I know Haven has used a product I believe to be the same/similar in that it is a source of tryptophan Tryptophan is a precurser to 5-HT which in turn is an immediate precursor to the production of serotonin. Serotonin being the brain chemical involved in the mediation of anxiety and inhibition of adaptive behaviour. If you PM Haven to alert her to your query I am sure she'd be able to post here and tell you the name of the substance she has and has used. She has used it with good results on a dog who suffers a high degree of anxiety. Valium inhibits memory. It can help in calming the dog but not much, if any, learning occurs. IMO Valium is a quick fix (sometimes necessary) but is not necessarily a good behaviour modification therapy.

Wolf82 .... you could entertain the idea of "chemical" desexing. Done by way of an implant the effects of which last 6 months (they're working on a 12 month implant). This way you would be able to see the effects of desexing without it being a permanent status. If it works to the benefit of the dogs and their relationship then it would be worthwhile considering permanent neuturing. If neutering the dog is out of the question for you, then chemical castration would be the next best alternative. Better than nothing IMO. Note: IMO, castration does not alter learnt behaviour, however it does have the propensity to raising the threshold for aggression.

I agree with Shekhina that this is likely to have something to do with it and expect this is why you are identifying behaviour changes. Many people get lulled into a false sense of security when their two young dogs get on well. They think friendly interaction will never change, and forget about the hormonal influences that will often alter status and instigate heirarchy challenges. But this is merely my internet opinion. As I have not had the opportunity to observe the dogs' relationship (and yours with them) you should not assume that heirarchy is the only object of your dogs' aggression. Engaging a behaviourist is the only way to properly obtain the advice you seek, and is the only person who will be in a position qualified to give it.

She shouldn't .... not on just those two accounts. Unfortunately, doing so is a common error by many Vets to dismiss it so easily. The other common error made is that they don't order the proper tests that would detect hypothyroidism in its earlier stages.

I agree with you Lablover. However, it still doesn't 'fit' in my mind given that the dog's behaviour seems to have a degree of selective areas. Neither have I heard of rash being a symptom although I admit that could be a secondary symptom. You're right though - the Vet would soon be able to confirm or disclaim. Haven - I didn't know it would show no symptoms, although on that note I wonder if that's a case of symptoms taking some time to develop? I agree that Hypothyroidism is more endemic than we would give it credit for.

Hhhhmmm .... but it's the red skin that doesn't match. Apart from the dullness of coat, the skin/coat would also be likely (but admittedly, not necessarily) to have an 'oilyish' feel to it. And I'm not so sure thyroiditis would cause behaviour that is so selective. Eg. Reluctance to come inside. Question to the OP. Is he reluctant to come inside if you are NOT there?

Here's a link to NATURAL FLEA TREATMENTS from the "Health Forum". It might help seeing as you'd want to give your dog a chance to "detox" from chemicals to see whether his reaction is allergy based. However, I'd recommend you steer clear of any remedies (natural or not) that are likely to sting your dog's skin (which, given that it is red, would be sensitive at the moment). If you search in the "Health Forum" for allergies to 'spot-on' treatments, you find quite a lot of information which may help you.

If there is no socialisation happening and no beneficial exercises, would you really want to bother to return??? From the description you give it sounds to me as if going there is teaching your puppy all the wrong things rather than the right things. If it were me, and I witnessed what you have described, I wouldn't subject my puppy to that. ETA: And even though the instructor might not give it back to you, I'd be asking for my money back on the lesson/s you don't go to. And let them know why.

You'll continue to love her and know that she left because it was her 'right' time. You'll know that she is there, watching over you .... even though you cannot see her. You'll know that she is running, free of pain and completely devoid of the physical limitations of age, in a sunny field with long soft grass and with trees underwhich she may rest. You will miss her - heartwrenchingly at first, but then more softly with time. But you will move on and find happiness without her physical presence being near you, as that is what she would want ..... nothing less. You will know that she will always be with you, wrapped in the warmth of your heart. You will know that you have been blessed with having known and loved her, and she you. You will be ok. I am very sorry for your loss, k8star. :p

Sorry BG .... but this is again ................ Oonga ..... not at ADT Berwick tomorrow. "Bouncy Rotty hounding" will have to wait!!! I look forward to it though. Oh - and if you're thinking about ADT Boronia, listen out for the weather forecast (ie observe "heat policy") as Boronia training could be cancelled. ON TOPIC - I don't know that BG has returned here. If she has, I hope she is heartened by some of the posts here that wish to help her plight.

Hey you! Haven! Push off! Don't be a smart

Yes - it's been occurring a fair bit over a number of threads. We must be careful. People will think there's something "going on" and we'll lose our credibility!!!!

I would disagree, FFAK. Heidley may be a new member, but is probably as capable as anyone else here of recognising when posts are appropriate or not. Regardless, it is Heidley's opinion and is entitled to it. Just as you are entitled to your opinion stating :- I think you'll find the more expert you are the more you'll realise this sort of advice cannot in all fairness to either the dog or dog's owner, be given without reserve via base internet knowledge. Of course, if it's not advice and is just your opinion ... then that's a different matter and is fine. My opinion is - engage a behaviourist. Advice would then come from the behaviourist.

Ahhh now thats what I need! And also thats what I ment by a "fun match" - a trial environment but no competition (no placings, points etc.). Sorry TP .... I misunderstood. Me too Kavik.

Thanks Jeff. I was just back-tracking through some threads I wanted to follow-up on and this was one of them. I too am interested, BG, as to what you plan to do and how you are getting on.

There are no words that will help remedy, but I hope they do help give you the strength and resolve you need to get through this worrying time. I hope for a better diagnosis than that expected. In this I send thoughts of healing and good luck as do, I see, the other posters here.

Hi K8star ..... any news on your beloved girl?

They do have events/classes such as "Gamble". I understand this is a "fun" based class in which there are placings and prizes. As far as I'm aware, there are no formal "points" scored which would go towards any Title though. But I could stand to be corrected in that respect. Some clubs will run a games event ..... although I think this is more often an intra-club thing (but not always). Again, as far as I understand it, it is a fund-raising event. Sorry - not a great deal of help because I'm not entirely sure how accurate I am being.

If I might answer? I don't think so. I put the suggestion up to the VCA ages ago (12 months ago?). Based it on similar to what they provide for horse comps. Eg. Freshmans Jumping, or Hors Concour - the latter idea would not cost any more to run. IE Don't need extra judges or prizes and the clubs running them could only stand to make more money on entree fees. Tried to follow it through but it seemed to have got shoved from one to another. I lost track and gave up. Seems they weren't particularly interested or they (VCA) would've contacted me. Surely? I don't do agility trials, so it's no skin off my nose, but I thought it would have been good from the training aspect.

I guess the club first needs to get to know if a person's "experience" is sufficient to the club's requirements. Don't forget, there's the Club's insurance to take into account. Whilst the Club can assess and get to know, understand and observe to confirm for themselves a person's "experience", if they let every person who said they were "experienced" do their own thing, they could find themselves in the poo pit should something go wrong due to permitted negligence. Don't forget - obedience clubs have their regimes. They need to, or things will end up out of control. Otherwise people might as well form their own groups on the basis of "do what we want the way we know best". Could be a bit of a mess if "best" proves to be insufficient.

Didn't misunderstand. Just explaining why direct reference to it wasn't given. Referral to Steve (K9 Force) already made earlier and taken on board by the OP. I know he'd cover drive training.

Sas .... it's not that I or any of the others who are endeavouring to assist BG by guiding her and her dog to harmony don't have that in mind or haven't thought of it. This is the type of thing that can be explored when BG (or, at least her OH) obtain one-on-one professional help. To suggest it is one thing. To try to teach it over the net is another. Don't forget there are other factors possibly going on here (everyone's concluded "boredom" ..... which is a big possibility - but is not conclusive) that may well need more attention other than solely leadership and drive training. IMO, BG has taken the first big step towards remedying the GSD's problems. IE .... she's admitted and announced there are problems. She's been honest and open with what she's done, what she's tried (and why), and what has not worked. Didn't any one of you ever make mistakes in your life? I don't hear BG blaming the dog (not like I do from many others in their own situations). She's saying she is now at a loss and is seeking help. The suggestions have been made and by the sounds of it BG has taken it on board and will be taking steps to accomplish success. Heavens to Betsy ..... she's confirmed the 10 hour trip to Steve (as suggested) is now a liklihood. Give her a chance - it's hardly as if she can "beam me up Scottie" and simply be there. Obviously the appointment and the trip needs to be arranged. I think it's pretty clear she's got the message about not tethering via a check chain. And it doesn't completely sound to me as if the dog has merely been stuck outside with no attention. Give her a break and a chance to re-unite with the dog. Sounds like she wants to make the effort. That's more than I can say for many who seek advice and get it. Often when it involves effort they simply chuck the advice out the window. So rather than bludgeon this girl for past mistakes (of which we've all been guilty in one shape, form and degree) encourage her for stepping up to the plate to retrace her steps in regards to their relationship with this dog. ETA: Sas - this post was not directed at you .... it was really just a follow on after having responded to your post.