Erny

Just an extra thought/info. IF it is muscle damage, which takes (rule of thumb) 6 weeks to heal, or IF it is ligament damage, which takes (rule of thumb) 8 weeks to heal, you should hold up any exercise which could/might put stresses on it. What we tend to do is wait until the dog no longer shows outward signs of limping/soreness etc. and then start going back to normal exercise. Quite often the damage is not completely healed and thus is susceptible to more damage. So the key is to rest the dog sufficiently enough that all damage is likely to have healed, even if this period of time excedes the time the dog SHOWS evidence of being sore.

Hi Kirty .... where are you based? Can't remember if you've mentioned already in this thread. If you're in the SE suburbs in Victoria (or thereabouts), you could try Michelle - Dogs in Motion, for the physio treatment if you seek to go down that path. And if you contact (google) the Rhodesian Ridgeback Club they run lure coursing days fairly regularly. Lure coursing can put stresses and strains on the dogs' muscles/ligaments too, though, because the lure changes direction pretty quickly. But you could ask them to slow the lure down especially around the corners to regulate your dog's speed - provided that doesn't make catching the lure too easy for him. Tracking would be more gentle on him, IMO.

Count me in on that school of thought please HR. K9: Agreeing again - I wouldn't want a dog that didn't have an ounce of awareness and reflex in him/her. As mentioned above .... it's the recovery time that is pertinent.

Would she not come out with her dog in the car and be happy to meet for lunch with a few friends, leaving her dog in the car (not in hot/warm weather, of course)? Short of this, I've got no other suggestions.

I'm no Vet, but from what you say it sounds to me like it could be ligament inflamation/soreness. WHY it would be doing this is not something I can answer. Perhaps a good canine physio/chiro type person could?

Thanks TJ. I don't do Flyball. I had no idea about the 'swimmers turn' (good idea). The only dogs I've seen doing Flyball have all slammed the box head on.

If he has shoulder probs, I'd suggest you stay well away from Flyball. Flyball isn't simply about the jumps, it's also about the jarring which comes from the speed at which the dogs hit the 'ball return/release' contraption. Whatever you find to do, I'd encourage you to at least look to throw in some obedience to maintain what he knows. Sounds like he needs a bucket load of motivation to make it 'fun'. Combining an alternative activity can sometimes help to promote motivation in obedience that you haven't found before.

This is a long shot but is there a chance you could entice her to be involved with any responsible and knowledgeable "dog-group" type people? Nothing formal - even just on a social level to begin with? Not to sit and talk about dogs (although I know that's what we have a natural tendancy to either start on or get around to ), but just out for a social afternoon/evening? Perhaps by 'gentling' into this type of group she'd gradually pick up on snippets people mention and over time she'd probably hear 'tips' being repeated between the members of the group. She might even, with time, begin to ask for advice regarding her own dog (which would be a huge sign that she's turning the corner, IMO.) Would that help her 'come around'? At least 'getting out' and learning to enjoy the company of others might be a helpful start and eventually might help her build the confidence to open her mind as far as her dog is concerned. Who knows ....... she might even get interested in partaking of some sort of dog course which would further her education (the information from which, not coming from a friend or being introduced by a friend, might be more accepted).

In light of your latest post, I tend to think as Haven does. This girl needs help first.

Thanks for the explanation, SnT. Should have thought of that, although I don't show so wasn't sure how 'rings' are worked. Question: Has anyone (who has a dog with the implant) noticed any 'softening' in relation to body and presence, since the implant?

Pondering on this and feeling something is wrong with this (hypothetical) 'picture'. If your dog ever did have the opportunity to get this far, I'm thinking it would have been because he is seeking drive satisfaction from something/somewhere other than you. Your "in drive" recall should assist if your dog looks to YOU for drive satisfaction. If he doesn't, then I have some doubts that your dog would respond as you'd want him to without some aversive training behind it. And I'm saying this assuming he has already received value in doing something similar at some stage in his life? Having said this, however, I'm guessing that if you want "out" to be a "drive" command (so to speak) then you'd need to teach the dog that the word "out" and his compliance of it is a pre-cursor to drive satisfaction from you. Just as you might teach a special "drive" command for the recall and/or for "sit". I'm not sure if this all makes sense ..... my own thoughts are getting tangled up in my head, let alone when trying to straighten them out in writing.

Pardon my ignorance, or inability to 'see' .... but how could HAVING the implant give the dogs an advantage over others who don't? Except for possible mallowing of behaviour????????

I used to get that, when I was at the stage of sorting "out in public" issues with my girl. I ignored it (albeit that inwardly, I felt every stare and many comments). I knew I'd won when many people, after time, would pass us and say "wish my dog would do that" or "wish my dog was like that". Ignoring these people was one of the best things I did and any discomfort from doing so (and still getting on with the 'job') was worth it. And I'd do it over again if I needed to. Feel sorry for these people - they simply don't know enough to understand. And from that point of view, you've got something they don't.

Sorry, but this method runs the high risk that the dog will learn how to get YOU to give it WHAT IT wants WHEN it wants it. All he/she has to do is go pick up something it shouldn't ....... It may well be working for you Akitaowner, and that's great if it does. But for many others it contains that element of "could come back and bite you in the ", so to speak. ;) Jeff - as you've seen, there are a number of different methods to achieve what you're after. I've tried a few (most?) of them (although, using a check chain, it's never been harsh or by way of sharp "correction"). But, as you've mentioned you're working in "drive" .... Have you used the method of walking ("helicoptering" - although not to suggest your dog is by any means "swung" at the end of the lead) your dog around in circles until the ball is released. This should produce a dog who learns that the quicker the ball is relinquished, the quicker drive initiation and satisfaction will come again. When it's happening regularly, you can introduce the cue word. Eg. "out". And/or if the dog does not relinquish the ball, stop training. Go inside. Of course, if your dog's just as keen on the ball whether it's being given movement by you or not, the dog might not think you quitting the 'game' is a big deal. This would depend also upon the relationship your dog shares with you, as well as where the dog is 'at' in its drive training. The other way I've taught this to a dog who loves to chase balls: Have two or three balls. Throw first ball. Dog returns, but won't relinquish ball. Stop. Stand still. Wait. Dog drops ball in mouth. You throw 2nd ball. So on and so forth. Once the dog is returning and automatically dropping the ball from its mouth (because it knows you won't throw it another/the other until it does ... and that's what it wants you to do), you can then introduce the cue word eg. "out" I use different methods on different dogs. Depends on the dog and what works best in each individual case.

Yes .... thank you m-j I'll be there too! See you there, and thanks for making this opportunity.

So do I - and unfortunately it will be the dog that pays for it .... if not also someone who is badly bitten by the dog, as well as all the innocent, well trained and socialised dogs out there who will suffer as a consequence of the media outburst. Your friend is being completely anthropomorphic at the expense of this dog. If she knew better, she'd realise all of what she does is not for the dog .... it is for herself only. If she loved the dog she'd listen to you and a professional trainer (one who knows his/her stuff and doesn't say things such as "this is normal for that breed" ... assuming this IS what your friend was previously told) and set things to right. If she did this the dog would certainly be a lot happier; a tragic ending might be avoided (if it's not to late for behaviour modification - and the longer this is left the less likely, or at least the more difficult and time consuming it will be) and your friend would reveal her selflessness rather than the selfishness that she is now exhibiting (albeit through tough circumstances). Perhaps show her this thread. You might lose a friendship over it, for a while. But when your friend realises you wrote here out of genuine concern for her and her dog, there's a chance she will come around in time. ETA: We can't help those who will not help themselves (or in this case, the dog), so your friend is the only one who can take that first step. Assuming she did not misunderstand the earlier trainer's advice, then he needs a kick in the ankle (or higher) for letting this one slip through the net when things could have been fixed with less effort.

Who do you think are the many that give advice here on the topics you raise?

Any update? Hope King is on the up and up.

Thanks for that info. By the above quote, what do you mean about the CCC saying it was up to you to "determine if it was fair"? Are you talking about the political side of showing, or the 'fairness' on the dog? Either way, what wouldn't be fair about it? I wonder (not knowing your dogs) if it was a lowering of 'drive' which gave the appearance of 'reduced stress'? It seems that most here who have reported on it have mentioned approximately one third goolie shrinkage, so that appears to be becoming the 'norm'.

I presume Ollie dog is back home with you now Jodie? Hope so ... and hope he's ok. Give him a tickle where he likes it, for me. Standing by for news - hope it's good.

The point of this "method" being? Agree, HR. And a book can 'put it over' someone more easily and believably. Unless the reader is already knowledgeable to some extent, there is no 'yard stick' for the reader to go by. The 'real maccoy' however, needs to be able to demonstrate his/her worth.

PM "Herr Rottweiler" here on DOL. I'm fairly sure he's mentioned him .... and if my memory serves me correctly, I don't think his comments were favourable. I've tried doing a search using the DOL search engine, but had no results. I'll check in the "general forum" for the same, as I'm really not sure if my memory is playing tricks on me. ;) I'll post back here if I can find where comments were made.

Jodie .... my heart and hopes are with you and Ollie for another bounce back soon. Come on Ollie, come on .......

;) It can seem like that to us sometimes. But remember that any 'guilt' feelings you may be feeling are simply anthropomorphism at work! I'd suggest there will be a bit of confusion at the start (change of rules), then maybe a bit of pushing/testing of the new boundaries you've set (can they REALLY trust in your leadership?). If there has been (even the teensiest bit of) leadership imbalance in the dogs' minds, you're shuffling the heirarchy ladder to really raise your level well above theirs. Keep at it ..... I tend to find dogs really love you for it. Assuming leadership is an issue (to whatever degree here), think of how much easier and better you're making it for them by taking off any pressures they (especially Eddie) might have been feeling in their perceived role of "leader". All of this 'work' you're doing is leading to something, SM. It's not necessarily going to fix Eddie's problem straight off and without other steps to take, but I want to make absolutely certain that leadership foundation is in place and rule that out as the possible ongoing cause of Eddie's behaviour. Let me know when the 2 weeks is up. Might feel like it's going to be a lifetime away right now, but before you know it, your actions and interactions with them in this way will become second nature.

It can be, Wyv. Sort of. But don't be too quick to prescribe to "boredom" as being the cause of your dobe's flank sucking behaviour. I think OCD causes are anxiety based, in the majority of cases. If you think "boredom" and think "learnt/habitual" behaviour, you might end up thinking about preventing the behaviour (eg. Elizabethan Collar) ..... but IF it is anxiety based, suppressing/preventing this form of anxiety release (assuming it is one) could then block the dog's learnt 'coping' mechanism, which in turn can escalate the anxiety and the behaviour may manifest itself in other ways. I'd suggest: Be a leader (as perceived by the dog) Keep him mentally and physically stimulated. Avoid inadvertant reinforcement for the flank sucking behaviour. Watch closely to learn the 'signs' which might pre-empt the flank sucking behaviour. Distract the dog when you suspect flank sucking behaviour is about to commence. ETA: I have a friend who regularly looks after/dog sits a poodle for a friend of hers. This poodle had an OCD .... walking circles. Although the OCD is still there, MUCH improvement has been gained through leadership, distraction therapy as well as mental & physical activities. She is a much calmer, less "neurotic" dog now and the "circle walking" only appears under circumstances to which she is unfamiliar.