Erny

NO! I don't even want to think about what I've spent in that regards, either! The "total" sneaks up on you very quickly, doesn't it? But regardless, I don't for a second, regret any of the seminars (regardless of whether I've considered them good or not) I've paid for and attended, as I will ALWAYS learn something from them in one shape or form.

Yes, I am. I was curious as to what people really end up spending, compared to that of a lifetime membership style school/club. Yeah, I can acknowledge that. But I guess that weighs up against the possibility of NOT moving residence etc. and then training possibly costing, in the end, considerably more over time than it would have with a 'life time' one. I suppose it's a matter for individual considerations and which way they want to punt. The purpose of my thread, just in case it is misunderstood, was not to debate "lifetime -vs- casual", but just a sincere curiosity for what sort of money is paid out over what period of time (generally/on average) when a casual membership is adopted.

Yes it does, thanks BP. I guess I could have worded my OP differently and simply asked everyone to calculate what the training fees (including yearly memberships) have totalled for each of their dogs so far, and what period of time that has covered.

Although Canine Cough (CC) can lead to more serious secondary problems, seeing as you're on to this reasonably soon, even if it is CC, it shouldn't be anything to panic about. CC itself is a virus, so there's not much the Vets can do, but they will probably put Remy onto antibiotics to wipe out any other associated problem which could develope (eg. pnemonia) and to help clear up any bacterial discharge from the nose. Will also probably prescribe cough syrup to ease coughing. Your main thing then is to keep him isolated to help lower the incidence of him passing CC onto other dogs. I know there are others who will be able to provide more detailed and specific responses than I, but seeing as you're off to the Vet this afternoon, there should be no reason for alarm or panic. Stay calm .... I'm sure Remy will be fine.

So KK has been attending classes for 1 year 8 months with the one dog. BP went with Bella for approximately 10 months. Pax has been attending classes (with the one dog, I presume) for 18 months. Can't work out the class attendances (for each individual dog) with some other responses (although it's nice to hear from you and what you get out of your classes) as the info isn't specific. What I'm interested in .... and simply curious about, follows on from the thread about what you pay for your club memberships and each class you attend. I know it will vary from one to another, but I just wanted to work out in my own mind what the average total training fee/cost ends up being in regards to each dog's training through clubs/schools. This would be on the basis of averaging out the fees as reported in the other thread, and averaging out the attendance record for each dog taken to class. For example, if club fees (generally speaking) are $25.00 per year for membership and $2.50 for each class, then the cost for KK's training might be in the vicinity of $260.00 (and counting).

Thanks for the response, Kavik. So, total training time at training school would be about 3 years 4 months for Zoe? And about 2 years with Diesel? And about 2 months with Kaos?

Thanks Wolfgirl. Her whines, these days, ARE hard to decifer - particularly as the 'tune/pitch'' has changed since whatever it is causing the blockage in her nose. Looking back, I should have taken a bit more time and noticed the look in her eyes. In hindsight, I realise it would have been clear to me what she wanted if I'd simply taken a longer moment to think about it. My bad - my patience ran a bit thin at the time and I too quickly jumped to the conclusion that she was whining for the chicken that was cooking on the stove (which she does regularly - especially since her illness, where she's always looking for food). I gave her extra chicken last night just to satiate my own guilt. Made sure I left it for a while after she'd pee'd inside, though ..... She's not on meds for the nasal blockage yet. After discussion with the Vet, we've decided to see if the discharge comes back big time again - if it does, then I'll administer the antibiotics and see if it has any effect. At the moment, there is a very small amount of discharge, but not to the extent that it was. She's had 3 quiet, sleepful nights in a row now and hasn't had a seizure (that I know of) for almost one week (save for the very very tiny one on Sunday just gone). This in itself will be helping her to feel better.

Just curious to find out an average for the length of time people tend to continue to go to their dog training schools. Eg. 6 months? 12 months? 2 years? How long have you been going? ETA: It doesn't matter if you've started then stopped; changed schools etc. Just curious to know for what accumulative period of time people have been attending formal obedience classes.

Thanks Isaviz. I'm not down. Just a bit frustrated with myself. I'm almost laughing at myself now (maybe putting it up as a post has been what I needed .... I've been telling her a lot lately that she's my little African Princess ..... maybe I've made her believe it. Speaking of which, I better go check her chicken. Last night, I got caught up here and on the phone and clean forgot it. Burnt the bottom of the saucepan black.

Hi Thanks for your posts, all. They really mean a lot and they really do help bolster more strength. But I gotta tell you .... I feel so bad, so guilty, at the moment. Over the recent weeks, Kal's been doing a fair amount of whining. She can be a bit of a whinger anyway but I used to ignore all but what I thought were genuine messages. Since she's been sick, I've been taking more notice of the whining. For example, before and/or after seizures, she goes into a state of whining. I've been aware that, through this attention for whining (and me sometimes getting it wrong and falling for the "whine for attention" moments), I've inadvertantly reinforced this behaviour to a degree. Well, I got home, fed the dogs and did the usual "I just got home" chores. Settled Kal on her mat in the lounge room (blankets on) and watched some TV. Kal does this whiney thing (which is now a somewhat tinny whistley sound, due to whatever blockage she has in her nasal cavity/passage) and keeps it up. Although I find it difficult to cop sometimes when I'm tired, I thought "heck, maybe she's feeling unwell" so went over to see what I could do. She kept it up for sometime, even when I was sitting with her. At one point I asked her "outside?" (cue for going outside to the toilet) but she didn't make a move. Anyway, so I wander down here to the PC and not long after, Kal follows down, whining as she does so. And then I go and tell her (in a stern, although not growly, voice) - Enough! Stop with the whining! She went straight back out of the room, down the hallway, and pee'd on the carpet mat I have there. I feel so rotten. There she was doing the right thing by trying to tell me she needed to go outside and of all times I told her off! :D I just feel so rotten. I know I can't be perfect, and I know it's probably excuseable, but I just feel so rotten. I hope I haven't put her off from letting me know when she needs the toilet. Time will tell, I guess. That will be, of course, after I've got up or come away from something a trillion times when she whines, just to see if it's the door she needs opening. :kick myself and smack forehead emoticon: PS - Still no seizures. Discharge/blood from nostril has cleared, although breathing sound continues to evidence a blockage somewhere down there. But she has also been giving me tail wag greetings over the last few days. There are a lot of dogs in for training at the kennels at the moment, so I didn't get back in time for a walk down the park. But planning to fit one in tomorrow and Friday, if she's up to it.

Perhaps, although something tells me that owner's head is past its use by date and "reading" it would be impossible. Good luck with Scout's physical recovery and mental rehabilitation, HG. Is it possible to get him back to at least 'pretend work' .... IE something similar to what he normally does, but on a much lower and lighter level? Good for you for planning and seeking to minimise/resolve any psychological affect the attack on him MIGHT have had .... as K9 says, if his previous socialisation experiences were broad and sound, this will help his recovery, as he will be able to draw on the critical period permanent memories of good experiences. All the best.

Isn't that a bit like saying that someone else is responsible for another's actions? Surely it SHOULD be reasonable to suggest that if someone acquires a puppy/dog they have the time and at least a reasonable portion of dedication towards its upbringing and care? Not suggesting, for the sake of the pup/dog at least, that the seller shouldn't ask some questions of the purchaser and advise on what might be expected time wise, but really, when it comes down to it, we should be able to reasonably expect the purchaser to have some brains?

I have a wand! :D You can actually use it as a 'target stick' ..... but it could double as a wand. Wanna borrow it? Maybe you could figure out how it works. I've tried "Abaracadabara", but it didn't work. Maybe I'm supposed to wear my red sparkly stiletto's and click my heels three times as well? :rolleyes: Might not get the dog to "sit" .... but would probably make him "look".

Good to hear from you Wyv and thank you for sharing Lane's last day experience with us. Although Lane's life was a short one, thank the powers that be that he lived what he did have, to the absolute fullest and was blessed to have been able to leave so quickly, without hinderance. I'm also glad to know that you and OH took the opportunity to say goodbye, 'til you meet again one day, and that you were able to share once more the enjoyment that Lane so obviously always provided. I can empathise your loss, but am glad you have your newbie dobe to help you both heal. Heartfelt sympathy to you at this time.

Update:- It's been an emotional roller coaster ride over the past couple of weeks. Phenobarbs seemed to be now doing their job with only one VERY minor mini seizure (smaller than small and only lasted about 5 seconds) that I've noticed, anyhow, since last Friday (touch wood). However, nasal discharge with blood (from right nostril, again) has reappeared. This gave Kal a difficult time both with breathing and comfort over the last couple of nights. She snorted back, in the early hours this morning, and this seems to have cleared what I've not been able to clear from the front (with a tissue). It's still there, but seemingly and considerably less. She's been quite low and I was thinking those thoughts we all like to avoid, last night/this morning. First thing this morning I left a message for the Vet to call me. He rang this evening and doesn't think there's much we can do for the discharge, but agrees there's nothing lost in trying out antibiotics, to see if they will at least for the meanwhile, reduce the amount of phlegm. When I arrived home after training today, though, she was very bouncy and I grabbed the opportunity to take her in the car to the park. She cantered a little, and otherwise trotted (mostly) a full lap of the park, with a bit to spare. She's wandering around the house as I sit here and type - she's smelt the chicken I've cooked up for tomorrow's meals. These are small moments that I have learnt to treasure and will continue to do so while Kal is still capable of giving them.

Jodie - I'm glad the 'scare' Ollie gave you turned out to be minor (in the scheme of things) and fantastic news about the lump disappearing!

No, it's not. More correctly referred to as "sh#@ scared".

Thinking of you, your Dad and Tajah and wishing for the best possible outcome. ;) There seems to be a lot of these tough times going around to our DOL members at the moment. At least we are able to empathise and in our thoughts offer some support, whichever way things go. Good thoughts coming your way.

I hope you're wrong, Rusky. Reactive (IMO) is too general and does not supply anything close to description. "Reactive" could also be where a dog is so frightened that it runs, panics and hides behind the owner's legs when it espies another (eg) dog. Someone will post "reactive" here on (eg) DOL and that's only going to lead to even more (wrong) assumptions by readers than what are quite often already made. Or, at best, lead to the necessity for more questions (the answer to which will probably contain the word "aggression" ... so we're back to square one anyway) before a calculated response can be given. Wonder what word we'll have to replace "reactive" with, once that becomes a 'dirty' word. The english language is (IMO) becoming more and more limiting in its precise meaning. Is this because of the 'soft' society we're becoming? That we don't like to hear the truth or somehow find it offensive? Sorry, off topic (slightly).

IMO, "reactive" simply means the dog reacts in one shape or form (usually excessively) in the presence of another dog/s (stimuli). Therefore, "reaction threshold" is the point of distance from the stimuli when the dog first begins to think about reacting. A specific description for the "reaction" in your case (based on your description here) is "dog aggression". Naturally, to suggest a behaviour treatment method, it would be necessary to observe the dog (as there are many nuances of behaviour that dog pet owners don't understand or know to look for). There are many people who refer to their dogs as "reactive to other dogs" - this can mean aggressively, or even excessive/manic excitement. Although there are many who have set "rules" for dealing with dog aggressive dogs and may well post them here or elsewhere, I admit that what I suggest and/or what I do does for the major part depend on the dog in question and sometimes the circumstances at the time (particularly if the environment I happens-chance to find myself in is not as controlled as I would wish for). For the purposes of info over the net though, essentially the dog should be worked at low level intensity with low level stimulus and beginning a bit behind the reaction threshold but working up to the threshold. I like to finish behind the threshold, so we can end on a high note. A lot of praise/reward goes into desired behaviour. A lot of training in obedience skills at home and in non-doggy areas (to build up as much reliability as possible so these skills will be part way reasonable to assist when the dog is in the presence of o/dogs) is also a bonus/necessity. Be aware that thresholds can change from day to day and moment to moment and when a dog has only just begun its behaviour modification program it is best to err on the side of caution when it comes to judging threshold distances. As described above, they aren't necessarily the same thing so would not necessarily be dealt with in the same way. In any case, the way one would deal with the issue of aggression may be different (in varying degrees) from one dog to the next.

I understand Vitamin B1 is good for calming anxiety/nerves.

No .... more like fine wine. BP: RF - Is this so? Or are you a scapegoat for the mockery accusation? Oh well .... not to matter. I could probably train the pants of many of the younger set and put them to shame as they wither with exhaustion. Anyway, at least I took the heat off Scope for a moment or two. Glad this thread seems to now be being read and respected for the worthwhile information and thoughts it contains.

"Advanced years" ..... damn it! No way! I shall say that the saying was passed down to me from my Great Grandparents to my Grandparents to my Parents. OLD! Never! ..... well, eventually. ....... Well, sooner or later. Actually, sooner.

In a recent but earlier post here, I said (in context with a sentence I used) "Heavens to betsies". Now, I see from a locked thread that was asking where this thread had (temporarily, as it turns out) disappeared to, that this struck a note with some people? I'm just curious as to why and wondering if the answer might have been in a post or two that I didn't get to read and has since been deleted. Was it a biggie? Or have I simply raised a saying from the dark ages which perhaps some of you "young'ns" haven't heard of before? Oh - BTW Troy .... good clean up. Thank you, and thanks for returning the thread.

Deanne .... . This thread is NOT about a dog who was not in its right mind. Heavens to betsies - that's a completely different scenario/situation altogether, and I'm somewhat amazed that you, as a 'psychologist' (even only a human one) could even compare the two situations. And, although OT, in epileptic seizures, it's not even about "not remembering you", it's about "not knowing what they do" - they are disorientated, phased out and forget themselves Again, a poor comparison. (A) A kitten. (B) A dog with poor/insufficient background and aggressive tendancies. As mentioned, finding someone who would want to take either of these dogs on would not be so easy, not to suggest that's what Scope should do. Scope didn't. But sometimes life changes outside of our control. I'm amazed that you can't see that Scope had a scarey moment from one of her dogs but that she is savvy enough to work towards a solution. She IS handling it. Surey you don't so easily advocate to run away (or get rid of) a commitment (and companion, such as are the dogs to Scope), because one has a raw moment? Scope has had her dogs for years and is making progress in training. One hitch - one moment of adrenaline rush and self-defence, and you say 'run away'? Is that how psychologists earn their money? IMO, Scope is capable of knowing when to say "enough" - in the meantime, I read her post as one needing a bit of support in a down moment. But then, I don't have the 'ticket' that says that means anything. What advice? That she should apply "negative reinforcement"? What good is that if you can't or won't explain how you suggest that should and can be efficiently and effectively applied in a situation which involves aggression from a dog towards oneself? As mentioned, she has done and continues to do this. These dogs are complexly problematic. It will not 'fix' overnight. And yet you sat in judgement on the 'treatment' meted out to the dog that bit Scope? AND you suggested that "negative reinforcement" be applied? (My question to you, as above, remains open, although I note that on a couple of posts you have mentioned you won't be returning here, so I presume there will be no response from you on this.) Perhaps you would be best to earn a degree in english, to accompany your psychologist degree. Re-read - Scope did not punch her dog to make it conform. She punched her dog because it aggressed on her. There is a huge difference. And I'm disappointed in your inability to recognise that despite your 'degree'. Given that you are a psychologist (as you so prominently displayed and professed), I am disappointed in your hastey, uncalled for and unqualified judgement of the OP.