Erny

I'm needing a list of the Victorian based Dog Breed Clubs email contact addresses and I'm needing them in a bit of a hurry. Not such an easy task to get them and collate them all so I can send out emails regards the "Dog Lovers for a Safer Community" rally. Anyone just happen to have a list of them handy or know how I can get them without too much difficulty?

Oi ..... you lot!! :D Letting this thread slip down again , lol. About to head out and deliver more flyers. Could do with some help in the collation of email addresses for breed Clubs, if someone from DOL wouldn't mind? If not, I'll do them, but if someone else isn't already busy running around with the flyers and such, it would be a great help. I'd like to be able to get the email I have prepared, out to them tonight as many of them are more likely to meet up (assuming they have regular weekly gigs) this weekend. And this weekend, being the last before the rally, is a pretty important and handy time for the Breed Club committee members to spread the word, educate and alert their members to this forthcoming opportunity to make a difference. Anyway ..... for the moment, jumping in the car and delivering. Back later . Cheers Erny

Have emailed you Kirty. Let me know if it isn't received and/or if the attachment fails. Cheers Erny

*bump* This thread SHOULDN'T be slipping off Page 1 !!!!! DOL is a bit quiet lately? Ever since I 'went away' for a l'il while for surgery? COMMMMMMME BAAAAAAACK !!!!! You are excused if you have been busy delivering and handing out the flyers for the Rally :D .

I'd like to know this too ..... can I copy it?

I get what you're saying Mita, but a point that I think should remain to the forefront of everyone's minds is that we are doing this for the COMMUNITY. The default result we aim for is that, with a better system/law, it will be better for not only the community as a whole, but also for the responsible dog-owners and the dogs themselves.

Thanks to Dju for the great work. Sent you a PM, Melz.

Thanks for the correct link, Felix. I think what everyone needs to focus on is to focus OFF the "breed" stigma and hysteria. Our whole point is that we simply have (and have had) the wrong legislation. Going by the look of a dog is not the way. Follow the info on active steps being taken in an attempt to have the Government see, hear and understand us. Community K9 Dog Lovers For A Safer Community - Dog Policy Must Protect Not Endanger - Melbourne Event Dog Lovers For A Safer Community - Dog Policy Must Protect Not Endanger - Sydney Event There are other events/rallies being held around the Country also. Get involved and unite.

There are millions of dog lovers, Robbi - don't be too disheartened. Where our problem stems from is the lack of education to the people; the wrong education impressed upon people for the sake of votes, money and popularity; and the flood of inadequate, ineffectual, and failure-doomed laws. That's what the current rallies are about. We want the Government to help us turn this around.

No - this is where the wording of the law is less than poor. The only breed of dog that is excused by the production of an ANKC Breed Certificate is the AmStaff. They seem to have forgotten about other breeds having a need to be excused as well. And, of course, it is not so easy getting a Vet Certification that your dog is not a restricted breed dog. I know that first hand, even though the dog is ANKC registered as something other than Amstaff or any other "bully" breed type.

The website is fantastic, Melza. Well done to all involved with its production (come down and fix mine up if you'd like a holly in Melbourne sometime, lol). What's happening with the rallies in other States, does anyone know? I understand dates might be different than the 22nd October, but good to keep abreast of up-to-date info. The flyers are well done, aren't they? Thanks to Brad for those. I think it is a great idea to utilise these and simply change info to suit your individual State (eg. dates, times, venue). Keeps the 'look' static and helps people create an identity familiarisation in their minds so they can spot by sight and know what its about.

The link you gave mis-directed me as well. Are you able to find that link again, Poodlemum? And you're wrong - there are hundreds of people concerned about the possible mis-identification. You'll find many of them elsewhere, busy working against the current Victorian Laws. So, if you are able to help by correcting the link, this will be of assistance and I'll ensure that the news reaches the right hands. Thanks in advance, PM. Erny

You're absolutely right that the wording is vague, and I think that adds to what is already a huge problem. I thought (though) that the Vet Certificates were intended for any dog with fits the description "type" set out by the Government? The intention might only have been for AmStaffs, given that their description is so similar to PB's .... but the Government have been negligent in overlooking the fact that there are many dogs that fit their very loose description list of what constitutes "type". Unfortunately I don't gain a lot of confidence and assurance in the ability to rely on "intent". That needs "trust" and I wouldn't entrust my or anyone's dog to the Government. Perhaps I'm wrong in this. It's such a muddled mess the Govt have created.

Brad Griggs is the main organiser, and quite a few people are helping. Brad Griggs is with National Dog Trainer's Federation (NDTF) - NDTF is heading the event .

Flyers have been designed for the purposes of promoting this rally and for handing out at the rally. If anyone would like to promote this important rally please email [email protected] with the word 'RALLY FLYER REQUIRED' in the subject line. Given the volume of emails they are receiving it is very important that you have the capitalised subject line mentioned above in order to allow them to get to your email (priority is being given to this subject). Flyers are double sided, A5 size, 2 to a page. The flyers will be updated as more details are finalised about the rally and some of our speakers confirm their commitment to address the crowd on the day. Please take some time, have the conversation with some people, and help keep society safer whilst doing your part for animal welfare. ETA: I have the flyers in PDF format. Not sure how to attach here. Is that possible? Dog Laws Must Protect Not Endanger - flyer.doc ETA: Oooh! I think I did it! (See above). Let me know if it works for you . If so, can print from this one and no need to email NDTF.

Scent Training Agility training are two examples. Both of these can be done at home. Even getting your dog to feel clever by getting up on a (sturdy) box and then down again can be the catalyst to initiating confidence growth. Going through a tunnel (eg 44 gallon drum) and/or tyre (make sure it is big enough to go through comfortably). But if you're not sure how to begin, seek out a trainer or training group that can at least start you off in the right direction. These things may or may not be the answer to your problem. But they certainly won't do any harm .

I agree. I think it would be good for it to be broadly known about MDBA Pacers' service as well. The more pro-active help out there for people and their dogs the merrier and the only way it will be of any use is if people know how and where to seek it. I couldn't find any contact info for "The Courier" so that it could be alerted to a possible further editorial to inform the public of these fantastic and helpful services.

It is a complicating technical hitch in the wording of the law that yes ..... could result in an unfortunate set of circumstances affecting ANKC papered "look-alikes". Is it likely? .... dunno. Is is possible? Yes. The mere fact that the dog can be seized and the owner then having to go through the legal hoops (and expense) of appeal is bad enough. Not to mention the stress on the animal impounded for the duration. Are Victorian dog-laws in a mess? Yes.

Technically, not even all of those. The way the law is worded, the only pedigreed dog who may be exempted from Victoria's prohibitive laws by the production of an ANKC Breed Certificate is the AmStaff. All and any other ANKC dog that could possibly be interpreted by its looks to fit the description type as given by the law does not have the same right of passage. That's absolutely stupid. But that's the law. Is the ANKC active in doing something about that? And I agree - there ARE cross-breeds out there. Beautiful, loving, friendly and loyal companions to the human race. If they fit the "type" description put up by the Government, they're in trouble.

Excellent responses, Spot the Dog. Whilst the responses might not make a difference to anyone who has the misfortune to have an iron-clad mind and a strong resistance to learning, the time and effort to produce those responses is not wasted as this is a public forum. It reveals to the general public who wish to read here, at least, what attitudes are out there and how flawed those attitudes actually are. One additional and I think, major point, to make is that the Breed Specific Legislation that we have had for the past 10 years, along with the extension of that regulation that the current Government has groped through to fruition against advice from those it has in the past held on high grounds for excellent opinion, is and will be a dismal failure. The very danger of BSL and "type" specific legislation is that it leaves an opening for the very danger of injury it purports to try to stop, just like an ugly gaping wound begging for infection. Bite injuries have not and will not improve and serves to provide the unknowing public with false education.

That is exactly what we are meaning, Alyosha - you wrote that very well and it explains it so much clearer than I have managed.

Excellent post, Steve . And not to take away from anything you've said throughout, but I highlighted the part that really needs emphasis (IMO). ETA: And just to come in behind you again regards the "animal rights" and "chattels" discussion .... I feel more confident of having the right to protect my dog under the "chattels" law than I would under "animal rights" concept. Although in Victoria, it is hard to feel confident about anything 'dog' at the moment .

I feel your pain, Lindainfa. My own boy has digestive issues and being lean > skinny is not an unfamiliar state for him. He usually otherwise looks happy and energetic and reasonably healthy (although they don't know what his "best" can be like), so I'm certain people think I just don't feed him enough and it is hard to resist the urge to explain yourself away by telling everyone what you're up against. Then it feels as though you're guilty by default and trying to make up excuses. But don't worry too much at Trish's school .... I'm sure most people would understand.

I agree with Steve. People who stand for "Animal Rights" bother me - many probably do without realising what these sort of things do mean and how they might impact. If an animal has rights, that means we need to *ask* them about everything we want them to do and if they don't wanna, they don't hafta. That would prove a major problem and would generally NOT be in the dog's best interests. That's a part of what I am not fond of in relation to Oscars Law. To my knowledge, the people behind that are about animal rights. I'm ready to stand corrected in that if I'm wrong, though. I think the dog is safer as being regarded by law as a chattel. Might not sound as warm and fuzzy as some might like, but you need to look past your sentimental reactions to the description to understand why and where it is better.

Genuine question : Does this mean that any dog in a shelter showing any sign of (eg) HD doesn't get a chance to be re-homed? If that's the case, I don't agree with this. The animals from shelters are mandatorily desexed so it is not as though it is a genetic issue that will be able to be passed on. There are people out there who would like to look after dogs for as long as the dog is happy and able to live with some quality in its life. This is OT to the vein of the thread and I do not intend to swerve away from that as there is some very good intelligent and informative conversation going on here. (I love the questions Steve fires off .... really raises slants on things that many of us might not have seen unless challenged for the answers. Steve.) If there is a simple answer to my question though, there may not be a need to start a new thread on this and so, if no-one minds, I'll leave this here in anticipation of the answer. Thanks in anticipation. Erny